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S.Pz.Abt.102 Normandy '44 Camo Paint Scheme
Ringleheim
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Posted: Saturday, April 07, 2018 - 01:32 AM UTC
I love the camouflage scheme depicted on the box cover of Dragon 6383 Tiger I late with zimmerit (nice image in the link below).

My question is this: has anyone seen a photo or evidence suggesting Heavy Panzer Battalion 102 applied this type of paint scheme to a mid-production Tiger? Or is there only evidence of this being on late Tigers with zimmerit?

I'd like to apply this scheme to a mid-production Tiger as I have already made a late Tiger with zimmerit, and diversity is the spice of life!



https://img1.cgtrader.com/items/4722/5c79f4559c/large/panzer-vi-tiger-134-late-production-3d-model-obj-3ds-fbx-c4d-lwo-lw-lws.jpg

Removed by original poster on 04/07/18 - 20:35:31 (GMT).
Removed by original poster on 04/07/18 - 20:37:57 (GMT).
TopSmith
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Posted: Saturday, April 07, 2018 - 06:15 AM UTC
Because the base color is green, it would be a late war camo.
brekinapez
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Posted: Saturday, April 07, 2018 - 06:45 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Because the base color is green, it would be a late war camo.



Tiger I's were no longer in production when base color green came into effect at the end of December 1944. So, it is seems likely the Late Tiger with that scheme might have been repainted at a depot during a refit, so why not a Mid that survived to that late date?

I can't find any pics specifically of a Mid in that scheme, however. But as they say, we don't have all the data so who can say it didn't happen?
Biggles2
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Posted: Saturday, April 07, 2018 - 07:22 PM UTC
Their tanks' base color was still Dunkelgelb, but most of the yellow was painted over with green, then brown, and small lines of yellow left, to better blend in with the heavy foliage found in Normandy. It looks like this modeler used green as his base color just to save on the yellow!
Vierville
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Posted: Saturday, April 07, 2018 - 08:32 PM UTC
Both mid and late Tiger 1s in Normandy had zimmerit. In fact almost all German tanks in the Normandy campaign were coated with Zimmerit.
Ringleheim
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Posted: Saturday, April 07, 2018 - 11:09 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Both mid and late Tiger 1s in Normandy had zimmerit. In fact almost all German tanks in the Normandy campaign were coated with Zimmerit.



Yes, I know. The question is not whether or not a mid-production Tiger has zimmerit; the question is whether or not this highly unusual paint scheme was ever applied to a mid-production vehicle.

The poster above who points out the scheme relies on a base coast of Dunkelgelb is correct.

I tend to agree with the 2nd comment made which says there is no reason why a mid-production or even early production Tiger could not have been retro fitted with this particular scheme, if in service with this Abteilung in the Normandy campaign. Gives a bit of artistic freedom to the modeler.

Having said that, I am leaning in the direction of sticking with a late production Tiger for accuracy's sake and because there are not really enough visual differences between a mid and late to justify a potential fictional paint scheme.

Still not sure though, and I appreciate everyone's comments/feedback!

Ringleheim
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Posted: Saturday, April 07, 2018 - 11:11 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Their tanks' base color was still Dunkelgelb, but most of the yellow was painted over with green, then brown, and small lines of yellow left, to better blend in with the heavy foliage found in Normandy. It looks like this modeler used green as his base color just to save on the yellow!



Quite true! Perhaps I attached a link to the wrong example. If you study the paint drawings on the Dragon instructions, it is quite clear that the base coat would still be Dunkelgelb, even if much of it ends up covered by the green and Rotbraun.

Biggles2
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Posted: Sunday, April 08, 2018 - 05:21 AM UTC
s. Pz. Abt. had a mix of mid - and late production Tiger I's. By June - July, 1944, replacement tanks (when they got them!) were of the Late production versions, and would have been painted similarly to the rest of the tanks in the battalion.

TopSmith
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Posted: Sunday, April 08, 2018 - 06:22 AM UTC
The link may be to the wrong example. However that is a post Dec 44 paint scheme. All of the Normandy paint schemes I have seen are dunkelgelb based. I dought a crew hand painted the tank to cover the dunkelgelb. In Normandy they were hiding from aircraft. If you look this is a 2 color paint schemes separated by yellow. If a crew just hand painted over the dunkelgelb there would be much less uniform distribution of color. You would have some large areas of green or brown depending on which color they used to paint over the dunkelgelb.
LikesTanks
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Posted: Sunday, April 08, 2018 - 06:46 AM UTC
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that the only mid-Tigers in Normandy were with 1st company of s.SS.Pz.Abt.101
Biggles2
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Posted: Sunday, April 08, 2018 - 06:47 AM UTC
I don't completely understand your point. Tiger I production ended long before green was even considered as a base color, and were never repainted with green as base. All mid and late Tiger I's were delivered as factory painted Dunkelgelb and camo painted in the field by their crews - either hand-painting or sprayed. s. Pv. Abt.101's were mainly (if not all) spray painted with large green and brown areas OVER the Dunkelgelb, leaving only a narrow band of yellow snaking between the other colors.

Biggles2
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Posted: Sunday, April 08, 2018 - 06:54 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that the only mid-Tigers in Normandy were with 1st company of s.SS.Pz.Abt.101



I won't contradict you, but any replacement tanks during the Normandy campaign would have been Late-production models.
Venko555
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Bulgaria
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Posted: Sunday, April 08, 2018 - 09:18 AM UTC
Hi,

I made Dragon 6383 in that particular scheme for Tiger 134 and painted the Dunkelgelb first then sprayed the large Olivgrun and Rotbraun areas on top. I think is the correct way IMHO, as said above.
You can see the painting here:
Tiger Late Normandy

Regards!
Kelley
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Posted: Sunday, April 08, 2018 - 10:37 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The link may be to the wrong example. However that is a post Dec 44 paint scheme. All of the Normandy paint schemes I have seen are dunkelgelb based. I dought a crew hand painted the tank to cover the dunkelgelb. In Normandy they were hiding from aircraft. If you look this is a 2 color paint schemes separated by yellow. If a crew just hand painted over the dunkelgelb there would be much less uniform distribution of color. You would have some large areas of green or brown depending on which color they used to paint over the dunkelgelb.



Greg, no, this isn't a late war scheme. At least some of s SS 102's Tigers were painted like this. There are several well known pics of some of their Tigers, in this scheme, moving to the front in Normandy. Here are a couple of them I found in a quick online search.





Concerning the original question, I'm not where I can get to my refs right now, but all the pics I've seen of tigers with this scheme are lates. If I find anything differently later I'll let you know.

Mike
LikesTanks
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Posted: Monday, April 09, 2018 - 12:20 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that the only mid-Tigers in Normandy were with 1st company of s.SS.Pz.Abt.101



I won't contradict you, but any replacement tanks during the Normandy campaign would have been Late-production models.



Yes, my point was that the OP wishes to use this Abt.102 camo scheme on a mid - all of which were with Abt.101
Ringleheim
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Posted: Monday, April 09, 2018 - 12:28 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi,

I made Dragon 6383 in that particular scheme for Tiger 134 and painted the Dunkelgelb first then sprayed the large Olivgrun and Rotbraun areas on top. I think is the correct way IMHO, as said above.
You can see the painting here:
Tiger Late Normandy

Regards!



Thanks for posting the link. I agree with you about Dunkelgelb being the base color, and by the way, your Tiger looks fantastic!

Ringleheim
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Posted: Monday, April 09, 2018 - 12:30 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

The link may be to the wrong example. However that is a post Dec 44 paint scheme. All of the Normandy paint schemes I have seen are dunkelgelb based. I dought a crew hand painted the tank to cover the dunkelgelb. In Normandy they were hiding from aircraft. If you look this is a 2 color paint schemes separated by yellow. If a crew just hand painted over the dunkelgelb there would be much less uniform distribution of color. You would have some large areas of green or brown depending on which color they used to paint over the dunkelgelb.



Greg, no, this isn't a late war scheme. At least some of s SS 102's Tigers were painted like this. There are several well known pics of some of their Tigers, in this scheme, moving to the front in Normandy. Here are a couple of them I found in a quick online search.





Concerning the original question, I'm not where I can get to my refs right now, but all the pics I've seen of tigers with this scheme are lates. If I find anything differently later I'll let you know.

Mike



Thanks, Mike. You have directly answered my question. No known photos of mid-production vehicles with this scheme, but perhaps possible one was out there like this.

Vierville
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Posted: Monday, April 09, 2018 - 01:21 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that the only mid-Tigers in Normandy were with 1st company of s.SS.Pz.Abt.101



Hi Richard.

1./s.SS.Pz.Abt 101 did have a mix of mid and late Tiger 1s as you correctly said but in addition the 3rd Company of s.SS.Pz.Abt 101 was entirely comprised of mid Tiger 1s too.
Vierville
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Posted: Monday, April 09, 2018 - 01:24 AM UTC

Quoted Text


My question is this: has anyone seen a photo or evidence suggesting Heavy Panzer Battalion 102 applied this type of paint scheme to a mid-production Tiger? Or is there only evidence of this being on late Tigers with zimmerit?

I'd like to apply this scheme to a mid-production Tiger as I have already made a late Tiger with zimmerit, and diversity is the spice of life!



https://img1.cgtrader.com/items/4722/5c79f4559c/large/panzer-vi-tiger-134-late-production-3d-model-obj-3ds-fbx-c4d-lwo-lw-lws.jpg




Sorry Ringelheim but it seemed like you were making a distinction between 'mid' tiger 1s and "late with zimmerit" ones. Implying the mid production ones had no zimmerit. Just the way I interpreted it
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