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Bronco: US M19A1 Twin 40mm
CMOT
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ARMORAMA
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Posted: Friday, June 22, 2018 - 09:18 PM UTC


Bronco Models has announced an US M19A1 Twin 40mm Gun Motor Carriage Korean War in 1/35th scale and included some very nice options for the modeller.

Read the Full News Story

If you have comments or questions please post them here.

Thanks!
deathdork
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Posted: Saturday, June 23, 2018 - 05:41 AM UTC
Greetings Darren I had always understood that this vehicle was a post WW II entry. Did it really see ground conflict in WW II? If so where?
davcon5
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Posted: Saturday, June 23, 2018 - 06:57 AM UTC
And soon to be followed by the M41 SP 155mm gun, I hope.
Removed by original poster on 06/23/18 - 21:54:39 (GMT).
Kevlar06
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Posted: Saturday, June 23, 2018 - 09:20 AM UTC
So... I did some checking. The M19 never made it into WWII. Where that rumor came from, I don't know, but Wikipedia (a poor source to begin with) does say it went into service in the last days of WWII where it was effective in ground combat). I think they are confusing it with it's Korean War service. Other sources (Olive Drab, The History of War, and Military Factory) say a prototype was in testing in 1944, but was not accepted until June 14th 1944 by the Army, and production didn't begin until August 1944. These sources also state the projected production total was supposed to be 904 vehicles, but only 300 were scheduled for production by April 1945, but the war in Europe was just about over by then (May 7th 1945-- the end of hostilities in Europe) and production ceased in April 1945. According to the History of War, only 285 chassis were actually completed when the war ended, and they were not fitted with turrets. The History of War, Olive Drab and the Military Factory all state the M19 did not go into combat before the war ended. All of these websites cite credible references. Another problem with the info provided by Bronco is the statement the M19 turrets were "used on the M-42". Olive Drab enphatically states this is incorrect, giving credible photographic references, which show how the turret ring and race are not compatible between the two vehicles. The M42 was certainly the successor to the M19, but there is no evidence of a direct exchange of any turrets other than in the basic design. Based on this info, I'm reasonably sure none of the M19s ever made it into WWII combat. The March 1945 date (with a "Confidential" stamp) on my manual is also significant, as it would have been produced just before the vehicle was issued.

One interesting aspect of the M19 was it's ability to tow part of it's ammo load on a 1/2 or 3/4 ton trailer (nicknamed the Roman Chariot I think, because of the fenders on the outside of the trailer body). Italeri made this trailer frame for a WWII water trailer. I was all set to convert the AFV M42 "Duster", the Bronco Chaffee, and the Italeri trailer into this combination, but gave up on the idea because it was just too darn hard to build all those ammo boxes around the M19 turret. Now I don't have to! Thank you Bronco! The only thing that would make this release better is covers for the spare barrels and the addition of the ammo trailer! Next release maybe?
VR, Russ
airborne1
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Posted: Saturday, June 23, 2018 - 10:14 AM UTC

Quoted Text


So... I did some checking. The M19 never made it into WWII. Where that rumor came from, I don't know, but Wikipedia (a poor source to begin with) does say it went into service in the last days of WWII where it was effective in ground combat). I think they are confusing it with it's Korean War service. Other sources (Olive Drab, The History of War, and Military Factory) say a prototype was in testing in 1944, but was not accepted until June 14th 1944 by the Army, and production didn't begin until August 1944. These sources also state the projected production total was supposed to be 904 vehicles, but only 300 were scheduled for production by April 1945, but the war in Europe was just about over by then (May 7th 1945-- the end of hostilities in Europe) and production ceased in April 1945. According to the History of War, only 285 chassis were actually completed when the war ended, and they were not fitted with turrets. The History of War, Olive Drab and the Military Factory all state the M19 did not go into combat before the war ended. All of these websites cite credible references. Another problem with the info provided by Bronco is the statement the M19 turrets were "used on the M-42". Olive Drab enphatically states this is incorrect, giving credible photographic references, which show how the turret ring and race are not compatible between the two vehicles. The M42 was certainly the successor to the M19, but there is no evidence of a direct exchange of any turrets other than in the basic design. Based on this info, I'm reasonably sure none of the M19s ever made it into WWII combat. The March 1945 date on my manual is also significant, as it would have been produced just before the vehicle was issued.

One interesting aspect of the M19 iwas its ability to tow part of it's ammo load on a 1/2 or 3/4 ton trailer (nicknamed the Roman Chariot I think, because of the fenders on the outside of the trailer body). Italeri made this trailer frame for a WWII water trailer. I was all set to convert the AFV M42 "Duster", the Bronco Chaffee, and the Italeri trailer into this combination, but gave up on the idea because it was just too darn hard to build all those ammo boxes around the M19 turret. Now I don't have too! Thank you Bronco! The only thing that would make this release better is covers for the spare barrels and the addition of the ammo trailer! Next release maybe?
VR, Russ



Hi Russ

There is a publication British and American tanks of World War 2 by Peter Chamberlain and Chris Ellis
ISBN 0 85368 437 5
Published by Arms and Armour press in 1969

The paragraph on the M19 was designated as the T65 GMC with the design commenced in mid 1943 and 904 vehicles were ordered in August 1944. You are correct confirming non had entered service as they only had 285 completed by wars end.

Thank you Bronco. I too will be getting 1 possibly 2 of the M19's

Michael
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Posted: Saturday, June 23, 2018 - 01:55 PM UTC
Really glad to see the M19A1 coming! It will make a great companion to the M16 Multiple Gun Carriage (Quad 50 half-track) as both of these vehicles were organic to the US Army AAA battalions found in the US infantry divisions in the Korean War.
deathdork
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Posted: Saturday, June 23, 2018 - 05:43 PM UTC
Thanks all for confirming the non-WWII combat status.

There are some other fun applications. The Ohio National Guard had them on inventory into the early 1980s

Kevlar06
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Posted: Sunday, June 24, 2018 - 02:40 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks all for confirming the non-WWII combat status.

There are some other fun applications. The Ohio National Guard had them on inventory into the early 1980s




Are you sure about this? Everything I've read shows they were out of the inventory by the early 60s, having been replaced by the M-42 "Duster", which did survive into the 80s in many NG units. As for the statement in Wikipedia regarding the use of M-19 turrets, I gave credit in my previous post to the wrong source-- it should be "m24chaffee.com", with the comparison photos disproving the info in Wikipedia about the M19 turrets being used by the M-42. You can see large differences between the two turrets in the photos. Here's a link to that site:

http://www.m24chaffee.com/m19-dual-40mm-gmc---information.html

m24chaffe.com also lists the manual as dated 1947, but I have owned a 1945 version. It also Implies more than 285 were produced, based on serial numbers sequence, which is possible, but not all serials in the Army inventory are necessarily sequential. The info on the site states the only foreign user besides the US was Pakistan. I think it was also used by ROKA and ROC, or they produced similar versions. The reason I think it wasn't in US inventory in the 80s is because there wouldn't have been any repair parts available-- the M-24 was long out of US inventories by the 1960s, having been replaced by the M41 series.
VR, Russ
deathdork
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Posted: Sunday, June 24, 2018 - 06:20 AM UTC
Mr. Russ I stand corrected. My Uncle who ran the ONG motor pool confirmed they were M-42 Dusters.
JPTRR
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RAILROAD MODELING
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Posted: Sunday, June 24, 2018 - 09:02 AM UTC
Interesting. I may get one because it is a unique subject. It is disturbing that these were still in a TE&O into the MERDEC era.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Sunday, June 24, 2018 - 09:14 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Interesting. I may get one because it is a unique subject. It is disturbing that these were still in a TE&O into the MERDEC era.



I’m pretty sure they were never in MERDC, or even in the inventory at the time of the MERDC initiative. There is a photo posted over on The Modeling News which shows one in a private collection in an “MERDC-like” scheme, almost exactly like the scheme pictured in the instructions. These were out of service long before MERDC came along. Here's a link to "The Modeling News" with photos of the real thing from private collections. The profile in the kit is almost the same as the photo:

http://www.themodellingnews.com/2018/06/bronco-knock-dust-off-old-favourite-new.html#more

One other thing to note-- as Gino has pointed out, Bronco has changed the box label to eliminate the word "Duster" since the M19 was never known as the "Duster"-- that name was coined for the M42. The review in "TMN" has the old box art-- I think Bronco is paying attention!

VR, Russ
Bravo1102
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Posted: Monday, June 25, 2018 - 01:52 AM UTC
At least in the 50th armored division, the National guard didn't get the M19A1. By the time they got around to updating the AAA assets the M42 was readily available and the M19 tied up in Korea and handed off as Military assistance.

Brand new M42 were paraded by the NJNG in 1956 along with M47 and M41 tanks.

The M42 stayed around into the late 1980s long after the M47 and M41 were all range targets.
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