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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
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Panther G late mantle?
Mongo13
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Posted: Monday, October 22, 2018 - 09:20 AM UTC
In April of 45 there were 2 styles of mantles found for the Panther. The chin style and round style. Question is if production would have continued which would have been the choice on new production vehicles?
jps
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Posted: Monday, October 22, 2018 - 10:03 AM UTC
Since the chin mantlet replaced the regular mantlet I would say the chin mantlet. That said who knbows what they would have developed in time.

CReading
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Posted: Monday, October 22, 2018 - 10:16 AM UTC
The 'chin mantlet' was developed to eliminate the shot catch under the 'round style' Stands to reason that improvement would be put into production.

Cheers,
C.
Mongo13
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Posted: Monday, October 22, 2018 - 10:23 AM UTC
Thanks guy's. I kind of figured that.
TopSmith
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Posted: Monday, October 22, 2018 - 02:10 PM UTC
The replacement had been designed. It was the turret and mantlet for the panther F.
d111298pw
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Posted: Monday, October 22, 2018 - 06:16 PM UTC
The "round" mantlet was installed on production tanks right up until the end of the war. The "chin" mantlet started production incorporation in September 1944. So, from late 1944, both configurations were installed till the end of the war.

The planned Panther Ausf. F would have had the "schmaltrum" turret which is a completely different design. The first Ausf. F chassis' were found on the D-B production line (mixed with Ausf. G chassis') when the allies overran the factory in April 1945.
Bonaparte84
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Posted: Monday, October 22, 2018 - 08:43 PM UTC
The question of the thread has been answered before, but I'd like to refer to this excellent site which shows exactly when which changes were introduced:

http://panther1944.de/index.php/en/sdkfz-171-pzkpfwg-panther/technik/technischen-veraenderungen

RobinNilsson
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KITMAKER NETWORK
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Posted: Monday, October 22, 2018 - 09:28 PM UTC
Thanks for the link!
exgrunt
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Posted: Saturday, October 27, 2018 - 01:44 AM UTC
I believe there was also a third mantlet option (seen on only a few tanks) with the area around the opening for the main gun thickened.
Scarred
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Posted: Saturday, October 27, 2018 - 04:25 AM UTC
How difficult would it be to make an ausf G Early a ausf G Late? I'm getting the Trumppy 1/16 Panther G Early and would like to make it a Late Version with the chin mantlet.
brekinapez
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Posted: Saturday, October 27, 2018 - 05:34 AM UTC
Look at the link Nicholas provided. It will tell you the differences between the two.
TopSmith
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Posted: Saturday, October 27, 2018 - 08:43 AM UTC
I have taken an early mantlet and converted it to a late. It was an easy task. Cut and glue a filler piece then putty the seams. I zimmed mine and it looked factory made.
Scarred
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Posted: Sunday, October 28, 2018 - 01:44 AM UTC
Yeah, modifying the mantlet should be easy. It's the other details that'll get ya.
d111298pw
#456
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Posted: Sunday, October 28, 2018 - 07:07 PM UTC

Quoted Text

How difficult would it be to make an ausf G Early a ausf G Late? I'm getting the Trumppy 1/16 Panther G Early and would like to make it a Late Version with the chin mantlet.


Patrick, What timeframe are defining as "late"?
Scarred
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Posted: Sunday, October 28, 2018 - 09:05 PM UTC
Now that is a good question because everyone has a different opinion on "early" vs "late". I'm thinking the build up for the Ardennes Offensive or just after.
ericadeane
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Posted: Monday, October 29, 2018 - 12:45 AM UTC
Greg Smith wrote:
Quoted Text

I have taken an early mantlet and converted it to a late. It was an easy task. Cut and glue a filler piece then putty the seams. I zimmed mine and it looked factory made.


I'm almost certain that by the time the chinned mantlets were introduced, the zimmerit application had already ended. You might want to check on that
Bonaparte84
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Posted: Monday, October 29, 2018 - 02:22 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Greg Smith wrote:
Quoted Text

I have taken an early mantlet and converted it to a late. It was an easy task. Cut and glue a filler piece then putty the seams. I zimmed mine and it looked factory made.


I'm almost certain that by the time the chinned mantlets were introduced, the zimmerit application had already ended. You might want to check on that



Actually, there could have been a short overlap of Zimmerit and chin mantlets. Factory-applied Zimmerit was dropped on September 9th, 1944, i.e. the very same month that the chin mantlet was introduced. I didn't find any precise date for the introduction of the chin mantlet, and therefore would assume that "September" stands for the entire month.

Considering the introduction of chin manlets occured gradually, there would have been only very few panthers with chin mantlet AND Zimmerit.
d111298pw
#456
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Posted: Monday, October 29, 2018 - 03:54 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Now that is a good question because everyone has a different opinion on "early" vs "late". I'm thinking the build up for the Ardennes Offensive or just after.


For that timeline, I would think an early to mid-November '44 factory build would apply.

This is a list of mods for an "early" version to a November version.

Chassis:
NO zimmerit
Exhaust Pipe Welded Armor Guards
Exhaust Pipe Sheet Metal Covers
Rain Guard on Driver's Periscope
Jettisonable driver and RO Hatches
Factory Applied "Classic" Camo scheme
Interior No Longer Painted (left in red oxide)
Camo Applied over Red Oxide Primer coat (no Dunkelgelb basecoat)
Improved Radiator Cooling Fan
New Crew Compartment Heater
Rear Shocks Eliminated
Elevated Driver's Seat
Redesigned Instrument Panel

Turret:
Pilze Sockets for 2t Jib Boom
Handle on Rear Hatch
Gun Mantlet Debris Guard
Longer Rain Guard over Main Gun Sight
"Chin" Mantlet
Poison Gas Panels Added

I'm sure there might be some others. I'm putting together a spreadsheet for the Panther/Jagdpanther/Bergepanther variants.

Scarred
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Posted: Monday, October 29, 2018 - 04:11 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Greg Smith wrote:
Quoted Text

I have taken an early mantlet and converted it to a late. It was an easy task. Cut and glue a filler piece then putty the seams. I zimmed mine and it looked factory made.


I'm almost certain that by the time the chinned mantlets were introduced, the zimmerit application had already ended. You might want to check on that



Actually, there could have been a short overlap of Zimmerit and chin mantlets. Factory-applied Zimmerit was dropped on September 9th, 1944, i.e. the very same month that the chin mantlet was introduced. I didn't find any precise date for the introduction of the chin mantlet, and therefore would assume that "September" stands for the entire month.

Considering the introduction of chin manlets occured gradually, there would have been only very few panthers with chin mantlet AND Zimmerit.


Field application of zimmerit was ordered stopped on October 7th, so zimmerit could have been applied on a "late" G with the chin mantlet in the field until then.
d111298pw
#456
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Posted: Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - 03:53 AM UTC
I rechecked my references. The "chin" mantlet entered production in October 1944, not September. The first tanks with it to roll off the M.A.N. and D-B lines were at the end of that month. M.N.H completed its first tank sometime during that month.

It would be very unlikely that one of these would have had any zimmerit applied in the field as they would have reached units after the field orders to discontinue, by October 7, were issued.
d111298pw
#456
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Posted: Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - 04:11 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I believe there was also a third mantlet option (seen on only a few tanks) with the area around the opening for the main gun thickened.


There was an "intermediate strengthened" mantlet first seen on M.N.H. assembled tanks in June 1944. M.A.N. also built a few Panther and Command Panthers with this mantlet.
Scarred
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Posted: Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - 01:42 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I rechecked my references. The "chin" mantlet entered production in October 1944, not September. The first tanks with it to roll off the M.A.N. and D-B lines were at the end of that month. M.N.H completed its first tank sometime during that month.

It would be very unlikely that one of these would have had any zimmerit applied in the field as they would have reached units after the field orders to discontinue, by October 7, were issued.


That's what I needed to know. Thanks.
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