So not letting them know what happened in the past and is still happening today is a good solution?

Jim, I hardly disagree with you but now we have to agree to disagree.

I realized that WW2 and WW1 are not covered in today's history lessons or only very brief.
My son does not know what Neo Nazi means, nor thus he understand what the skinhead stands for, he never heard of Auschwitz except from me! neither heart of the Warshaw Ghetto or the killing by the Japanese on Indonesia (my wifes mother fled during the occupation).

This dio and others (like the one featured on DD) gives me a reminder to talk to my kids and listen to my grandfather, to teach and learn myself so this never ever happens again

Ronny,
As an avid history buff, I would never advocate sweeping anything under the rug (so to speak). However in the US it would be more appropriate for older kids (say 12 and up) to learn about the atrocities commited through history like the Holocaust. Not elementary school kids. And my point is that it's up to you (the parent) to decide this stuff.

The core of this discussion really goes to each of our reasons for their interest in this hobby. If your interest is exposing the "horrors" of war then I would imagine this kind of diorama is exactly why you build. If you build because you think "tanks are cool" then this diorama is probably not for you. (I am using silly generalizations here obviously). My point being that this kind of topic is a NO-WIN scenario. Nobody is going to be happy with either outcome (publish vs. don't publish, post vs. don't post, etc).

Sincerely,
Jim

That said....I wouldn't have had a problem posting Keith Forsyth's diorama with the train if Dave hadn't beaten me to it.

Jim

I'm with Ronny on this one.

I think this dio handles a sensitve situation very well. The builder makes a strong statement without going overboard -- we look at it and we know what's about to happen. If the builder was simply going for the gruesome, he could have modeled the gas chambers and the ovens, the piles of emaciated bodies, etc.

If it makes people feel uncomfortable -- good -- it should.

I managed to trace this dio down. Disturbing? Yes, most definitely. Gory and bloody? Not the angle I saw. Artistic? Absolutely, in the way Goya's Guernica is artistic dealing with a brutal subject. Couple guys have mentioned the child with teddy bear, while I also found the inclusion of the religious statue in the background equally chilling.
This shows the dark underbelly of the SS and Gestapo and realy should have a place next to our sanitized, heroic views of these people.

Curiously enough, and it's a valid point, my wife strongly defended the diorama on the basis of Goya's Segundo De Mayo and Picasso's Guernica. It is strong, quite a brutal piece in fact. The problem being that all of us on both sides of the argument have valid points. What has been excellent in this thread has been the courtesy and respect that people have shown to each other's (differing) points of view. I feel that Danny's (Eagle) decision was the right one to make.

Sadly, there is no simple solution. The best is perhaps as someone said earlier, is to agree to disagree....Jim

Sheesh

I check the thread too late, and now we have a discussion of a diorama that the latecomers can't see!

Could someone PM me the link or other information? I'm an adult, and I'd like to know what the fuss is about!

Cheers
Andy

Check your PM.

Al,
there is a pic on the original Korean site that shows the girl in the ditch. Definitely for stronger constitutions.

Wow, that was fast!
Thanks.

Frankly, this is the kind of work that needs to be shown. It's disturbing, it's very well done (the groundwork is awesome), and it shows events that occurred. Like "Schindler's List" and other stories of the Holocaust, it's no surprise folks are upset by the images. Isn't that the point?

I believe linking the pics directly might be problematic, but if this had been put up in the Rivet Review forum, how would that have been handled?

Cheers
Andy

I'd like to see it as well... thanks...

I also have to agree with Ronny. I've seen the pics on the Dutch Twenot forum and they have the same discussion . I don't find the dio shocking. I can understand the decision to remove the pics, but I wouldn't have removed the links.
I can only say that this dio has it effects in helping realize the horror of war. When I was 18 I went to stay for a month in Israel. We were with 50 boys and girls ranging from the age of 14 till 18.. One of the visits was the war museum (don't know the name). I can say that this visit had an enormous impact on us all. Still now that I'm 35 I can still remember some of the images seen there. Which ones: the most brutal ones. The ones that where very shocking. When we came out, we all had this feeling like This can not happen again. So therefore I'm convinced that this dio has it purpose. I think many people are offended because it's so direct.
I built AFV, not because I want to glorify the war, but I built them because I like how they look. Like a nice car or a bike. But maybe my simple dio of an M113 can offend someone who has had a bad experience with this. Maybe for this person seing an M113 is as bad as seing a massacre.
Just my 2 cents

Another latecomer. I would like to see it also, can some one PM the link to me please?

Thanks

Danmo

Will someone please PM me the link as well?
thanks

Goodness people. The photos are listed in the Diorama photos section at WW2MM.

http://www.ww2modelmaker.com/modelsdio.htm

There...not a direct link but it will get you there. Last dio at the bottom "My GOD, Why Do You Throw Me Away".

Jim

Having seen the dio in question, I agree that it is quite disturbing, and quite possibly an important statement by the builder. Just as I think that we can probably all agree that Schindler's List was an important movie that also graphically dipicted such vile acts. But, as a parent, I don't plan on letting my 8 year old daughter watch Schindler's List. When she is older, yes, I might actually insist she watch the movie and perhaps view a diorama such as this one. Armorama is a wonderful resource for those interested in our hobby, many of those interested people are most definitely young. I think it is appropriate to monitor the content, and control it. As a parent, I appreciate it.

Thanks everyone for the link...

Finally saw the diorama (thanks Nato and Plasticbattle for the link) I found that it has a powerfull mesagge. It may be disturbing, not suitable for everybody to see, but think that it is necesary for all of us te remember that kind of things. I Also think that the moderator took the correct decition. The people that are interested to see it, ask for it.

Regards to all of you

Danmo

I don't think this forum is meant to debate the moral issues involved.
From a technical side, I have to hand it to mr Park : this guy can model figures !
Just look at the detail of this guy with the spectacles. He's... a quite spectacular figure to be 1/35 ! .
Jan

I showed this dio to my dad his comments were as follows

"The model itself is well made and constructed however the subject matter is poorly chosen and may be offensive to some people"


Longshanks talking again here:

There was more but that is the basis of it...........Frankly, I'd have to agree with him..........

At first I just saw the model and not what it was representing.
Now I have sat down and thought about it..........I honestly feel sick.............not because he has chosen to build it but because it reminds me of some of the images I've seen from various places, most of which disturbed me a great deal........the 'subject matter'.

If this was his aim I'd say he's achieved it but he has done it in a very careless way.........

Jim, thanks for having restored a link. I think this was the right thing to do given the discussion this work has generated.

While not something I would model, the dio seems nicely done and captures a bit of history, as is the intent, without celebrating it. IMO, it would have been in bad taste to show blood, wounds or dead bodies. I watched the Holocaust mini-series at age 10 and found it to be more graphic and disturbing.

Paul

for the record I'd like to mention that it does show blood and a dead body, but those pics have been removed from the site.

This is disturbing! I would be more concerned if people were not disturbed by it. I have seen many disturbing things, ageed not appropriate for everyone. I had a teacher who was a Polish Jew, her story... ah frustration.
It is the power of education, to never let these things happen again, ever. It is the individuals choice, to acknowledge it or not. As a model, it has a place, artistically it has a place, historically it has a place, and frankly I don't give a hoot about the arguments political, PC, or other wise. As a parent, protect your children if you wish, I whole heartily agree inappropriate for children under 12, and also for those adults faint of heart. But, be afraid for those who do not embrace the power of education. I am sorry if I offended anyone, it was not my intension, only to help educate. I did know what I was getting into but... really...

The family and I were watching the six oclock news yesterday British soldiers on fire in Iraq dead terrorist in Palestine 9-11 and so it went on. Interesting dio well modelled not a subject i would feel i would need to takle.