I was compelled to share this with you all, I was surfing yesterday and found this dio as a modeler and fellow historian, it shows the crulity of humanity. For those based in the fantasy world where such atroscities never occured you should not view it. For those of you who support freedom of speach,and acknowledge Saving Private Ryan, Band of Brothers, and Schindlers List, as accurate historical depictions of what war was really like please take the time to visit these two sites. Sung Ho had the courage to tackle this subject. It WILL evoke emotion, my opinion is this those who do not remember or share the past history are doomed to repeat it. This subject is close to me as I had an uncle captured at the battle of the buldge he was taken to a Nazi concentration camp not a POW camp what do you suppose happend to him?

Moderator Eagle :

Since this diorama is controversial indeed, I removed the links in this post. If people want to see this, please PM or email nato308 and request the links. I must warn you that the pictures can be shocking !

we have been discussing this in the A-guard forum.
please do not post pics of it here, its not a nice thing to look at.

if people want to look at the links thats up to them

cheers

joe

Right or wrong, weather you agree or disagree with it you can not deney it happend. As a parent, when my children are old enough to understand they will taught about such things! I will not forget those who suffered, soldiers or civilians.

I have deleted my link. Frankly this dio turns my stomach. I really would ask that the moderators make a decision on this post/link. Please remember that we have a number of young modellers on this site. Nor do I wish to hear some kind of 'Freedom of speech' argument. This has been brought up on several occasions. I don't think that this has any validity whatsoever....Jim

nato, im not in anyway denying this happened.

for the reasons jim has already mentioned, this is not something many people will find appropriate for this site. so if people want to look at it then thats fine, just dont force people to by posting a picture.

im not wanting to start an arguament, just dont want anyone to get offended thats all

cheers

joe

Guys - first of all - thanks for doing a bit of 'self policing' . Discresion is the better part of valor...
There are a lot of terrible things that happen in the course of a war, many stories to be told and many ways to tell them. Some are better told in small groups where the 'listener' can choose to be a part. In a forum the choice is less voluntary in some aspects.

I editted the initial post from nato by removing the links and adding a bit of text.

Please do not start rants or discussions on this matter and do not add the pictures to this thread !! If these things do start or if pictures will be published in here, it will be "post closed". These discussions can only end in a nasty thing with no "winners" and can therefore only harm Armorama or its members.

I think the arguments from greatbrit and jimbrae are valid and therefore I editted the post. People must be free to watch these pictures, but a WARNING is in place !!

I am sorry that this reaction is not the one I would like to see here because removing the link to this dio feels like censoring

Yes we have kids here, but, although it stirs up emotions, it is a beautiful piece which forces you to think of the brutality of that time and to many youngster think that war is romantic and full of glory

The builder is giving us a message, one we must never ignore

I do understand, and while this is not a "pretty thing" to look at and I repect the fact aromoram and some parents may wish to protect younger viewers, but I will say I am disappointed. Truly I am not trying to jam this down anyones throat, you all have the free will to visit and view or not, but rather I was hoping for some good diolouge, I am open to each point of view. Unfortunately, the emotion evoked by this diorama, has been overwhelming, I will support Sung Ho and his skill as a modeler, and his right to tell his story. I am not trying to argue with anyone, only to support a young man's work, weather PC or NOT, he deserves the right to tell his story, it is your choice weather it is heard or not.

In my way of seeing this , i d like more to protect youngsters from having bad pictures especially in very young age. On the other hand if many dios i have seen here or else (many of them from young modellers also _present dead or wounded soldiers blood, open wounds and all these, the scene we talk about is , the next step of all these and is a lil risky to say this is aproved and the other one is not ....many thoughts about it , as i consider our hobby also an art. So if a proffessional reporters picture about a same incident is getting a "picture of the year" award , is this dio really so "bad"?I believe that is mostly on personal choice ......i think that almost all of us will have a different way of getting this .I think that is better to stop the whole thing here and not cause a seam in this sites way of treating . Just my idea

I wish to make this my last post on the subject.

1) The author of the work is Korean. I doubt his fellow-countrymen would have many kind words for a similar piece on the atrocities committed by the Japanese during their occupation...

2) This is not PC or non-PC. Such things as model subjects still stick in many people's throats. I am afraid am one of them. There has to be a limit as to what we can and cannot approach as modellers....

3) The Freedom of Speech Chestnut. This does not imply the right to publish whatever one wants, rather it is a true expression of freedom of speech when other people's beliefs are taken into account BEFORE one's own determination to say whatever we feel like...

4) This site works well because we are all united in a common thread-MODELLING. This is why the decision was (correctly) taken to exclude a current affairs forum. Modelling is about self-realization and creativity, something we all share to varying degrees. This is not the place to start political/philosophical debates. If this may seem 'sterile' then there are millions of sites out there where these subjects can be debated.

5) Images such as these are for 'mature' modellers (debatably) we have a lot of young modellers on this site who, for various reasons may have parents who do not wish their children to view images such as these.

6) Censorship is unfortunately necessary from time to time. This is Armorama, NOT , @rmorama.

I'm sorry I felt this was necessary in the first place....Jim

Roadkill your simple acknowledgement is all I was looking for.

Gentlemen i think that calming down and do not divide into teams of different sides will help to get throughout this ..for the shake of our hobby and our site .

i think this is best left as it is.

people will always have different opinions on these things, so i think this is best left to rest

cheers

joe

I think everyone is RIGHT on his point of view.
The modeler thought it can be a different diorama and built it maybe he didnt have any purposes to judge this as a humanity crime.He just wanted to model it and did.I respect him and congratulate for the awesome modelling.
I can not blame the website publishing this diorama because they have their point of view and maybe the people there did not think on this dio as much as we do.they thought it is just a dio. I feel proud to have sensitive members in our website.
I respect and thank my mate NATO308 who gave me a chance to see this diorama.

ON THE OTHER HAND-IMHO- this is a community site and have some rules. Rules are made by the site owner and put into practice by the moderators.They do their utmost to keep this site clean-regular and useful for all members. we must respect what they do even we sometimes think they are wrong because they try to make everyone happy not only one or two members. we must not judge editing posts according to site rules as a stroke on democracy or human rights.

Lets be calm and continue sharing our knowledge and experience.we have too many models to build :-)
best regards all

All I wanted by my enitial posting was to simply give people an OPPURTUNITY to view this work, NOT evoke the PC debate, or a polititical debate. We as humans have free will to view it or not, we are all entitled to our own opinions. My final word is simply: It is the idividuals choice to view it, censorship, the way this has been handeled thus far does not offend me. I will be happy to supply a link if asked. All I ask is that the oppurtunity remain, that is all. IIt was NOT my intension to anger anyone, just to educate and not to lose the importance of lessons lost.

I refer you to point # 3 on my reply....Jim

Ok Guys - this is a diorama forum to discuss diorama building lets focus on that please.

Let not get

everyone who has posted here has very valid points,

i understand totally nato's motivation in posting the links, and also the reasons why some peole find it in appropriate.

i would like to congratulate all who have posted here, as it has remained civil and thoughtfull, when it could have easily degenerated into flaming.

this will be my last post on the subject

cheers

joe

I completely agree with Ronny. I also agree that posting certain pictures directly might not be a good idea but to remove the links is a bit much.

This said, I have not been able to see the actual diorama (since links have been removed) so I am at a disadvantage as far as comments go. Can someone please point me in the right direction? I would like to know what prompted this discussion in the first place.

I belive I came across the dio that all the fuss is about, and if it is the same one, the site it is posted on has now edited out one or two of the more graphic photos.

I have just seen the photos. Honestly, I find this diorama to be an incredible piece of work. I think that the builder has done an outstanding job in capturing the feeling of terror. This dio is very emotional. I find the girl holding teddy bear to be very symbolic. Being a parent it touches my heart very, very deeply.

One problem I have with this diorama is that there seems to be someone already in the ditch. I can't tell from the pictures if that is the case but IMHO this should have been omitted. He (builder) should have left enough to the imagination without getting too gory...

BTW, my grandmother went through something like this. She watched as her sister perished in the exact way and God only knows why she was spared. The stories she had told me (although just a few ) would turn your hair gray

Ok, I have looked up all the other messages concerning this DIO. First off, this is a great dio, it brings up all kinds of emotions. Which is what OUR dio's are supposed to do when we bring them out to the public to gawk and awe about.

As a fellow modeler said, "War is not a pretty or romantic thing, it is the worst and lowest level of human nature and a failure of mankind. Like it or not dios and models are pieces of art which have the power to deliver messages and their central theme must be to convey a message or emotion or represent a part of history. The hobby is the building process, the finished work is art. This is how I've always seen.



Its unappropriate for some to see and not for others, but it happened. How many times have we gone to shows and seen dio's where the nazi's are "humanized" in humorous scenes and we stand and laugh at it? So if its ok to make them "human" and chuckle, why not show the "inhumane" and wince? Lets not forget that they had thier cruel side to them and SUNG brings it out. If we tell him to keep this dio hidden away in his private home and pretend it does not exist. Then why not just completely tear down the existing concentration camps used to teach present and future generations, wipe it out of our history books and erase the whole thing as if it never happened.

What I am starting to find appalling is that because the builder is KOREAN, he obviously cannot understand the PAIN that these people went through for the reason that they are on the other side of the world !!!!!!!! Thats ridiculous to even say something even remotely as close to that. He can understand it as much as the rest of us for 1 simple fact, he is a human being like us all and because of that he can understand what it is to make a DIO such as this. If thats not good enough, how about the japanese and thier treatment of the koreans, chinese ??? Or the killings that went on in CAMBODIA by the Khmer Rouge?? He lives in good proximity of all that went on and they are reminded of thier history im sure.

Its about time someone did something like this, and for that, I commend Sung for his work. Bravo.
put bold text here

I have been overwhelmed with e-mails, I am at work now so I will take care of the links this evening, please be patient. I will answer your e-mails. The powers that be have made there decsion. If other wish to help the others find it feel free, the site was edited so it is more PC but the last I knew they still had a link to the modelers personal site which was not edited.

My comments about this dio are already on record on the site this site was published on. I was just discussing this topic with my wife and reached a better conclusion than my original thoughts. "If" done for the right reasons, the diorama would make an incredible exhibit at a holocaust museum. That said I woould not want to be with my daughter at a modeling show and have her see this.

So for those who are upset with us for removing a link I am sorry but I support Dannys decision. We have younger users on this site and we have to work to do what is right for them (or at least what some of their parents would want us to do in keeping things like this from them at a young age).

Also it's important to note that even the site that published these has now removed them from the front page of their site. Perhaps this is just because new content was added. I don't know as I couldn't find it listed on any other page.

Jim