Is there any problems with the Tamiya kit?
Dan

Jerry,

I think the only unit that fought in EPSOM equipped with the Cromwell was the 2nd Northamptonshire Yeomanry - the recce unit of 11th Armoured Division. The Scottish Infantry Divs had no integral armoured support; they were usually supported by the independent tank brigades (which of course, was their function) on a mix and match basis.

The only Armoured Division proper fully equipped with Cromwell was the 7th - which is why one sees so many shattered Cromwells in pictures of the Villers Bocage debacle. However, at the time of Normandy there were sufficient Cromwells manufactured to equip the Recce Regiments of the Armoured Divs (7th, 11th and Guards)- effectively becoming a 5th armoured regiment in the Order of Battle of the respective Div.

Interestingly enough, the 2nd Northamptonshire Yeomanry experimented with a form of Zimmerit if you like, by affixing strips of rubber to the sides of their tanks' turrets in an attempt to defeat the emplacing of magnetic hollow charge anti-tank grenades by enthusiastic SS Grenadiers. Whether this had happened by the time of EPSOPM I'm afraid I don't know. I seem to recall a Military modelling magazine article on this from the mists of time - perhaps someone else can help here - it would make for an interesting model I reckon.

Lastly, I claim no great authority on Normandy - just an interest as I had an uncle who fought there - and in EPSOM - I believe (he was with 9 SS Pz but that's another story!)

'Hope this doesn't muddy the waters too much.

Brian

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Is there any problems with the Tamiya kit?
Dan

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Hi, Dan!

I would dump the kit-supplied Tracks first- I DO NOT LIKE VINYL TRACKS. . .

I believe that TRUMPETER/HOBBY BOSS make plastic indy-link tracks to fit the TAMIYA Cromwell/Centaur kits. Maybe I'm "all wet" on that score, but you should be able to find Track sets made by FRIULMODELISMO, or from MASTER(?)... I bought two sets of MODELKASTEN Tracks for my Cromwell/Centaur kits "back in the day". I also used the old VERLINDEN resin/PE Cromwell Stowage Boxes Update sets, using selected bits and pieces from these update sets. You might still be able to find these on Ebay. I used the ABER PE sets to "dress-up" my Cromwell/Centaur kits. Don't know if they're still available, but they are/were exquisite.

(I STILL like use the ABER 2 1/2-ton GMC CCKW PE sets, which were originally meant for the ITALERI/TESTORS "Jimmy" kits, when I can find them- These are easily adaptable to ANY of the 1/35 CCKW352/353 kits that are available today. IMO, there are NONE finer. Also, if you're REALLY LUCKY, you might still be able to find their M8/M20 Armored Car PE sets and their US 1/4-ton "Jeep" PE sets, if you're so inclined...)

All of the corrections for the TAMIYA 1/35 Cromwell/Centaur kits that the other guys mentioned above are good advice. I LOVE Resin and PE A/M stuff. Also, get yourself turned aluminum Main Gun Barrels and BESA MG Barrels- RB MODELS should be able to help you out on that score...

I like to shop on Ebay- You'd be surprised how much stuff you can pick up there, if you don't mind browsing around. Really good pricing can be found there, if you know where to look. Some people don't like Ebay, but I haven't had any problems since I signed up on Ebay in 2007...

Good Luck in your "Cromwellian" endeavors!!!

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The time period would be Normandy June44?
Thanks for any help/advice in advance,
J

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Jerry - do you have a particular unit in mind or are you fairly agnostic about it?

I've built several of the Tamiya Cromwell/Centaur kits and I really like them for buildability and refinement. There are a range of aftermarket sets available but they are not (in my view) a 'must-have'. The Type C to Type D engine deck alteration can be achieved by scoring a couple of new panel lines and filling in a couple of others, whilst the engine vent meesh can be depicted with a fine square-pattern mesh rather than a kit-specific set. The handles on the engine deck can also be replaced with thin brass rod.

Regards,
John

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I haven't nailed down which specific unit yet but it would have to be from one of the Scottish Brigades involved in Epsom,which probably means a mark 4?
I have found a Tamiya kit and it's on its' way but you say the conversion to a 4 is simple? Do I even need the Accurate Armor mod then?
J

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Depends on how secure you feel about rescribing your own panel lines, exactly square, with a uniform width. I considered the resin parts a worthwhile investment, but it's up to you. You would need a good plan of a Cromwell Mk IV TYpe D engine deck to work from, of course.
You'd still need to scratchbuild some periscopes, if you want to depict tha more common version of the commander's cupola.

It's not enough for a conversion project but here are some drawings that show the hull variants :



Full size

H.P.

I've been doing a fair bit of Googling around and other research to try and find out if the Northants Yeomanry had the rubber strips fixed at the time of EPSOM.

Jerry,

I've been doing a fair bit of Googling around and other research to try and find out if the Northants Yeomanry had the rubber strips fixed at the time of EPSOM.

I've come up with one link here:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=pDdjDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT49&lpg=PT49&dq=rubber+strips+on+cromwell+tanks&source=bl&ots=0pQGk8c617&sig=ACfU3U110MkbyR8UL0u6xz1wtrZyC0GesQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjZ-_jIjZbgAhXPXRUIHbKDD64Q6AEwCnoECAMQAQ#v=onepage&q=rubber%20strips%20on%20cromwell%20tanks&f=false

(hopefully it'll work)

and another here which shows the efforts of a fellow modeller on the Missing Lynx site:

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/missinglynx/cromwell-wip-t278823.html

However, I suspect it was combat in EPSOM itself that prompted the use of the rubber strips, therefore any model representing one of their tanks would not necessarily have to depict this.

Op EPSOM was the first operation 11th Armoured Div undertook (although activity on the infamous Hill 112 seems to merge into it as far as I can make out)and the official Div history describes:

"2 N Yeo had withstood the fiercest counter-attacks of the operation and repelled them, though sustaining heavy losses, especially on the first day and during the big German effort on the evening of the 29th".

I therefore suspect that EPSOM may be where the 2 Northants Yeomanry first encountered the Hafthohlladung magnetic grenade and thus proceeded to add rubber strips post the battle. I know it's perhaps supposition but I think, that chronologically at least, this makes sense.

I hope this makes sense and is helpful: I do realise that you probably haven't even got your hands on the kit yet, let alone deciding on how to depict it!

Brian

Although I don’t recall anything in there about the rubber strips when I read it some years ago, ‘Sixty-four days of a Normandy summer’ by Keith Jones describes his time in 2 Northants Yeo. If I could lay hands on my copy easily, I’d have a scan for any mentions as it would probably indicate at least when they were out of action and therefore had time for such activities as fitting the stuff. Of course it might well have been a different sqn to his that did it. Did the sqns of armoured recce regts operate together or did they support individual regts of the division in the way that the corps armd car regts did with subordinate formations?

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I've been doing a fair bit of Googling around and other research to try and find out if the Northants Yeomanry had the rubber strips fixed at the time of EPSOM.

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According to the accompanying text the Cromwell tank that can be seen at the end of this period footage of Operation EPSOM (June 26) belonged to the 2nd Northamptonshire Yeomanry's 'C' Squadron. To me me it seems there's "something" that looks like rubber plates fitted to the turret side(s)....But maybe it's just me

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/1060008134

H.P.

I think the first place this story showed up was in the MAFVA journal Tankette vol 24 no 5. An article (by B Eburne), drawing and photo described it as being used by C Sqn in Normandy. T187945 was one so fitted, photo being dated 19/7/44, which is just before Goodwood. Of course the photo date isn’t necessarily when it was taken. Apparently (source was the NY museum curator) the C Sqn LAD came up with the wheeze and used inner tubes and rubber belting.

Not clear if other sqns used it but A apparently used wire netting on battens round its turrets to detonate HEAT projectiles from infantry A/T weapons.

Another Operation EPSOM footage with genuine Cromwell turret rubber strips bits in it, and even a Crusader AA tank fitted with "brushwood armor"

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/1060008139

H.P.

Hi Jerry,
The Tamiya Cromwell kit is not bad at all. Instead of buying any books (although that won't hurt either), Artyom Nikolaev did a superb superdetailing job on the Tamiya kit, to be found here on Armorama, which is helpful to anyone interested in the Cromwell

Thanks man,tht is even BETTER than the first. Besides the rubber strips I also see zimmerit"?

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Thanks man,tht is even BETTER than the first. Besides the rubber strips I also see zimmerit"?

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You're welcome. Even though the British Army tested their own Zimmerit (http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/british-work-on-zimmerit/) I guess what you see is just ribbed rubber material (IWM picture):



Zoomable version

H.P.

what we Brits would call a "Hurdle" construct

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Thanks man,tht is even BETTER than the first. Besides the rubber strips I also see zimmerit"?

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You're welcome. Even though the British Army tested their own Zimmerit (http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/british-work-on-zimmerit/) I guess what you see is just ribbed rubber material (IWM picture):



Zoomable version

H.P.

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Thanks man,tht is even BETTER than the first. Besides the rubber strips I also see zimmerit"?

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You're welcome. Even though the British Army tested their own Zimmerit (http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/british-work-on-zimmerit/) I guess what you see is just ribbed rubber material (IWM picture):



Zoomable version

H.P.

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I just wonder if the ribbed bits are from flattened out radiator hoses? That might explain the slight curvature some pieces have.

I further wonder - and the road to hell is paved with such - if only the one Squadron experimented? I think it's unlikely that the whole regiment would be so modified, partly due to the lack of rubber for some 50-odd tanks, and also because of British Army orthodoxy prevailing at the time; none of which helps poor Jerry at the moment!

I thought the use of "brushwood" (what we Brits would call a "Hurdle" construct) highly imaginative, but lest we forget, men were living and dying in these machines.

Probably high time I tackled the Regimental Museum and the Tank Museum and see what comes up.

Brian