I read that the postwar Eastern European nations did have some German equipment in their armies. Presumably not much that was serviceable though, but it would be nice to know if any actual examples have been proven, e. g. supposed Eastern European German vehicles were not of Eastern European usage.

Check out (no pun intended) the Czech Army's postwar use of Hetzers, and the postwar use of Panthers by France, just for a couple of examples... Not to mention a HOST of German "Soft-skins" used postwar by all Nations on the Continent...

Syria, although obviously not European, acquired German vehicles from the French as well.

Sure! There were Pz.Kpfw.IVs used by several Arab Nations, as well...

The books I have about Arab armies mention all that, of course. But I was thinking of Eastern Europe specifically, namely because they were war-ravaged Soviet puppet states who had to salvage what they could.

Didn't the Czechs continue production of the Kfz 251 D (Tatra OT - 810)?

You know it's interesting that you bring Nations in Eastern Europe up about using German vehicles, post war. My Dad, who was originally from Western Ukraine, Lviv, which was ceded to Poland after the First World War. He also lived in Poland part of the time. His family ran several smallish slaughterhouses in the Lviv area, and also in one just outside Krakow. His Mom was half Ukrainian/Polish. His Dad was Ukrainian and was sent to Siberia by the Soviets right after WWII- He was never seen alive again. But, that's another story which I'm not going to get into right now.

My Dad was drafted into the Polish Army. He first served in the Cavalry, but through an unfortunate accident while he was participating in a steeplechase, he sustained injuries that consequently got him transferred into the Polish Horse Artillery. He was in charge of a Battery of 75mm Howitzers when Poland was attacked by the Germans in September, 1939. In two weeks time, he became a POW, captured by the German Army, (HEER), and handed over to the SS, as were his fellow Polish POWs- THAT is yet another story, and horrible in the telling. I won't get into THAT story right now, either. He managed to survive, being liberated by US Army Forces in the Western part of Germany, in 1945. He was lucky in that he was not handed over to the Soviets- He was "classed" as a "DP", i.e, a "Displaced Person", by the "powers that were" at the time...

Despite what you hear, read and see as far as American GIs officially not being allowed to engage in "fraternizing" with the German populace, (ESPECIALLY the young "Frauleins"), a LOT of that went on. In any case, so much of that went on that Dad and my Uncle Vladimir, (Dad's older Brother) got into some not quite "legal" trading with the GIs. By that time, Dad had met my Mom, a German girl, and they made plans of coming to the USA. My Mom and Oma (German for "Grandma") were very impressed by the friendliness of the GIs and their largesse- They were told by the NAZI Propaganda Machine that they would be brutalized by the ever advancing US/British/Canadian and other Western Allied Troops, just like what was happening on the Eastern Front. Imagine their and their fellow German Villagers' surprise when instead of being "done for", the GIs started handing out American-style white bread, K-Rations and Hershey Bars!!! Sorry, I got carried away...

Anyway, my Dad and my Uncle managed to get a few GIs and their "Deuce-and-a-half" to bring a load of food into my Mom's village. Don't ask me how- Dad never did explain it all to me... So GUESS who became the two most popular Ukrainians in Germany!!! Anyway, both of my parents distinctly remember a LOT of captured ex-German Army and SS vehicles being pressed into every-day service (with the Allied Armies' supervision, of course), by the German populace.

One would think that there were ex-German Army and SS vehicles being put to use beyond the Soviet demarcation line, as well. But SURELY not in such large numbers as were being used by German CIVILIANS on the Western side. No, the Russians did things a bit differently, much of it by necessity, since the Russians were war-ravaged, themselves. So, the better left-over German stuff was shipped back to the Soviet Union, (i.e, Russia), and the Poles, Ukrainians, Hungarians, Czechs, Yugoslavs and ANYONE else behind the "Iron Curtain" got the rest of the "junk" that was left over...

My Dad and my Uncle came from a family of six Brothers and two Sisters, PLUS all of the In-Laws, who were stuck in Poland and in Ukraine after World War II. They attested to the (very sparing) use of German vehicles in those two countries after the war. Finally, in 1959, my Uncle Stefan in Ukraine managed to get a fistful of permits to buy a converted VERY used WWII-vintage Soviet-made "Gazik". THAT was a "big deal" for THE ENTIRE FAMILY over there... In 1959, my Dad was driving a "fully-loaded", luxurious 1958 Buick Super- His THIRD car in the US... How LUCKY WE ARE in THIS Country...

Ground vehicles weren’t the only German equipment put to use in post war Eastern Europe.

The Czechs continued producing and flying Me-262s up to 1950. Their version was dubbed the S-92.

http://https://www.google.com/amp/s/wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com/2015/08/12/the-s-92-czechoslovakias-me-262/amp/

Keith

Dennis, I love it when you "get carried away." Keep it up!

Well, the Czechs resumed production of the three-ton armored halftrack a decade after the war, since they disliked the available Soviet APC's. There were significant redesigns to accommodate the revised engine, and to include a roof over the troop compartment, and the tracks were a new design without rubber pads. It was cramped and uncomfortable, and the Czech soldiers dubbed it "Hitler's Revenge."

With the roof removed, it makes a passable German halftrack for reenactments or war movies.

If the 251 halftrack has a muffler on both sides instead of just on the driver's side you immediately know it was built post war. It should be driver's side ONLY for an original war era German halftrack.
(I am not knocking the later ones though, they are both beautiful!)



(Thought you guys might like seeing these reenactment photos. The top one is from the Lowell, IN. event and the bottom one is from the old Patton Museum annual event, Ft. Knox, KY.)

Also note different tracks and much simplified cast drive sprocket.

I believe the Israeli's had some German Mark IV's they made use of early on.

Also I seem to recall seeing a photo of a Panzer IV still dug in as a fixed artillery emplacement somewhere on the Golan Heights

Google "Czech Freedom tank" where a Czech mechanic found a discarded Sdkfz 254 armored car (already a rarity!!)

He got it working and eventually drove his family and others across the Czech-West German border to freedom.

He, his family and the converted Sdkfz 254 toured the US -- not a bad propaganda coup against the Eastern Bloc!

It ended up at the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn MI. It got into private hands and now is in a warehouse, still in MI. At a MVPA rally in Ohio, its current owner and I chatted a while -- and he asked me if I wanted to buy it! I declined...

Hm... No comments from anyone about the P-51D buzzing the Germans on the ground, eh? The '51 was, and still is, one of the most aesthetically-pleasing aircraft EVER built. The REAL "Cadillac Of All Fighters" was the P-47, though. By the time the '51 arrived in England, USAAF P-47s had already broken the back of the Luftwaffe, and THAT'S a FACT... The '51 delivered "the Coup de Grace"...

PS- My Onkel Ludwig, (on my Mom's side of the Family) was a German Tanker serving in France during WWII. He told me personally that his and his fellow German Tankers' two greatest fears were US/Allied "JABOs" and US Tankers' use of "Willy-Pete" (White Phosphorus) Rounds to "kill" German Armor with... Judge his statement for yourselves...

Good thing you declined buying that Sd.Kfz.254, what with fuel prices being what they are!!!

Thanks, Mike!!!

No argument about the P-47's but the Spitfire and Hurricane pilots certainly had a hand in that back breaking as well.

It was only the P-51 (with twin drop tanks) that had the range to escort the bombers all the way to the target and back.

I wonder just where the expression "P-51 Cadillac of the Skies" came from anyway? Does anybody know?

I often wonder if it isn't really Steven Spielberg in his movie "Empire of the Sun" that we have to thank for the phrase? With that young boy screaming it over and over from the watchtower as the Mustang glides by at eye level with the pilot waving back at him!

Spielberg- Uh, yeah. The phrase was really about the P-47 as I quoted in my previous post- She had a more roomy Cockpit, a GREAT Cockpit Heater and the build-quality of Republic's products were without peer. Conversely, P-38 Pilots suffered awfully because of inadequate Cockpit heating...

Spielberg only turned the "P-51/Cadillac" phrase around to suit his needs. He tends to use a lot of "artistic license" in his films...

P-47s managed to get more range by the use of the same "Drop Tanks" that you referred to in your comment about P-51s- Not quite as much as the P-51s' range, but quite a bit more than before. Also, check out the P-47s' Combat Records, ESPECIALLY those of the 56th Fighter Group...

What you mentioned about Spitfire and Hurricane Pilots is certainly true regarding the "Battle of Britain"- It should be remembered that both the Spitfire Mk.I/II thru Mk.IX and the Hurricane Mk.I/II thru Mk.IV were both designed as SHORT-RANGE (POINT-DEFENSE) INTERCEPTORS. The Spitfires supplanted the Hurricanes in many British Fighter Squadrons after the "Battle of Britain'. Even the later Typhoons and Tempests were never meant for bomber Escort Duty. The short-range RAF Fighters ALSO needed "Drop Tanks" to extend their range, and even with those, their range was still too limited to go the whole distance to Berlin, for example. My comments are in no way meant to detract from the bravery and aeronautical abilities of the RAF and Allied Pilots. Rather, it was THEIR MACHINES that hampered them from flying and fighting deep into Germany BEFORE the Normandy landings. Once more and more land was taken by the Allies in North-Western Europe, TACTICAL Air Force BASES were established to afford the Allies an EXCELLENT Ground-Support organization...

Remember that British Heavy Bombers for the most part, flew their missions AT NIGHT, because the RAF's Spitfires were deemed INADEQUATE IN RANGE for Fighter Escort, meaning the long-distance bombing missions that were required by the Allied Air Forces' "Bomber Offensive" strategy... Conversely, the USAAF bombed BY DAY, and therein lay the whole conundrum of the Allied Fighter "Range-Problem". Eventually, the P-51s had bigger INTERNAL fuel tanks designed into them and then the RAF experimented with a few Mustang Mk.Is and IIs having Merlin Engines installed. The rest is HISTORY...

Remember also that the Luftwaffe's Messerschmitt Bf.109s and Focke-Wulf Fw.190s were originally designed as SHORT-RANGE (POINT DEFENSE) INTERCEPTORS, just like their British counterparts, the Spitfires and Hurricanes, AND the American P-38s, P-39s, P-40s, P-47s AND P-51s. Originally, internal fuel capacity was not much of a consideration in the design and requirements of the the USAAC for the P-47; it was designed as a "High-speed, High Altitude INTERCEPTOR. Then, all of a sudden World War II came to the United States at Pearl Harbor, (We won't go into the United States Navy's supposedly "surreptitious Convoy Escort" campaign in the Atlantic since 1940, wink-wink), and the specs for the P-47 were changed. Initially, only increases in the P-47s' INTERNAL fuel capacity were made and the addition of Center-Line "Drop Tanks" came much later, AFTER the Allied Bombing Campaign was already well underway. Eventually, "PLUMBED" Wing Pylons were designed for the P-47s, and that was a "game-changer". Republic manufactured ALL P-47D-25s and subsequent models plumbed for the capability of either retro-fitting Wing Pylons, or having said Wing Pylons already installed at the factory at Farmingdale, Long Island. The Thunderbolt's Combat Record is too involved to get into at this juncture, so I'll let that rest for now...

We all know who came out "on top" in the long-run...

PS- The P-47's "pot-bellied"-look was primarily a result of all of the air and exhaust ducting that was required for that bloody great Turbocharger which was mounted AFT of the Cockpit. The P-47 had power to spare at altitudes where other Fighters were struggling just to stay aloft... A bit later on, it was discovered that the P-47 was also a "Ground-Pounder" par excellence. Not for nothing is today's Fairchild-Republic A-10 officially named the "Thunderbolt II". Otherwise, the sobriquet "Warthog" has been coined for the A-10, as it IS a supremely UGLY airplane...

Interesting related articles :

http://www.ww2wrecks.com/portfolio/the-ww2-vehicles-goldmine-of-anton-belousov/

https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com/2018/01/15/flow-of-wwii-weapons-after-the-war/

Apparently the Soviets laid hand on a few 98K rifles ...



A WWII PaK-40 anti-tank gun being towed by a Cold War-era BTR-152 of the Soviet 270th Motor Rifle division during a September 1954 exercise :



H.P.

As always, GREAT research and photos from Henri-Pierre!!!

You're welcome Dennis

On a side note, talking about the PaK-40, Austria received a few of them from the USSR in 1955. France and the USA provided them with captured German firearms as well :

https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com/2015/06/14/rearming-austria-wwii-weapons/

H.P.

The French used Panthers, Spain and Turkey used various Panzer III and IV. Finland still has several of their Stug III running.
Spanish and French passed on various Panzers to Syria.
Bulgaria used Panthers for a short time postwar painted green with large red star and a stalking fox insignia. (Years ago I drew the markings for an after market decal sheet and built one)
Swiss and Czechoslovakia used Hetzers. Some 38(t) suspension were used on various postwar vehicles including an assault tank and an APC.

Yeah all kinds of postwar goings on for German stuff. I read that Farmers were especially keen on Panther road wheels for wagons too. Posited as One reason a lot a wrecked Panthers seem to have no road wheels after a few days.

The WWII after WWII link above is great for a lot of this information. There was also a book in Bulgarian about Bulgarian armor that had pictures of the 38(t), Pzkfw IV and Panthers Bulgaria operated.

What about public benches (from Romania) ? :



H.P.

WOW! Impressive just how long this list has gotten!

Equally impressive is that Frenchy you could find such a photograph of the farmer stopped at a railroad crossing with that wagon!

Yeah. And then that boy went on to play Batman. Amazing.

So, since someone mentioned aircraft, there's tha Avia 199 S, built in Czechoslovakia after the war from the Bf 109G airframe but the same Junkers Jumo 211 F engine from the Heinkel He 111. The Israeli's used them quite a bit, which is why I've built my share.

And since someone mentioned P-51s - the P-51 wheel I'm using for my P-51 chopper build had been pressed into service on a wagon as well.