To be specific,a tank from the 2nd Northants Yoemanry, "A" squadron during Operation Epsom. What would the markings be? This was the Division recce Bn at that time.
Google has only made things more confusing.
Help???
J
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Query about Cromwell markings
jrutman
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 19, 2019 - 08:37 AM UTC
BootsDMS
Joined: February 08, 2012
KitMaker: 978 posts
Armorama: 965 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 19, 2019 - 09:06 AM UTC
Jerry,
I'm away from my references but on the hull front (and indeed the rear) there would be the Div sign of a Taurus Pursuant (ie the black bull on a yellow background), the arm of service sign of the Blue and Green square (Green over Blue)with the number "45" in white superimposed. There might be a bridge classification plate somewhere on the hull front - black on yellow - but as I say, I'm absent from by books; I can't quite remember but there will be a serial number somewhere on the hull or turret - this will identify an individual number so God help you if you're ever subject to such purists.
The Squadron sign is much simpler being, I believe (as outlined in my PM to you of, I think, 11 Mar), a white triangle applied to the turret sides.
Sorry to be less than my usual accurate self; hopefully, if nothing else, this will facilitate some digging elsewhere.
Brian
I'm away from my references but on the hull front (and indeed the rear) there would be the Div sign of a Taurus Pursuant (ie the black bull on a yellow background), the arm of service sign of the Blue and Green square (Green over Blue)with the number "45" in white superimposed. There might be a bridge classification plate somewhere on the hull front - black on yellow - but as I say, I'm absent from by books; I can't quite remember but there will be a serial number somewhere on the hull or turret - this will identify an individual number so God help you if you're ever subject to such purists.
The Squadron sign is much simpler being, I believe (as outlined in my PM to you of, I think, 11 Mar), a white triangle applied to the turret sides.
Sorry to be less than my usual accurate self; hopefully, if nothing else, this will facilitate some digging elsewhere.
Brian
jrutman
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 19, 2019 - 11:03 AM UTC
Thanks man,
My very faulty memory does not help me remember when folks have been kind enough to send me stuff like you already did. I usually do remember,just don't place exactly WHERE the info was given.
I will check it out. I found lots of pics on Google but you never know which squadron they are or whta time period. I understand the tanks underwent some mods after Epsom and before Goodwood,RE the exhaust scoops in back and also the "zimmerit".
My very faulty memory does not help me remember when folks have been kind enough to send me stuff like you already did. I usually do remember,just don't place exactly WHERE the info was given.
I will check it out. I found lots of pics on Google but you never know which squadron they are or whta time period. I understand the tanks underwent some mods after Epsom and before Goodwood,RE the exhaust scoops in back and also the "zimmerit".
BootsDMS
Joined: February 08, 2012
KitMaker: 978 posts
Armorama: 965 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 19, 2019 - 10:01 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks man,
My very faulty memory does not help me remember when folks have been kind enough to send me stuff like you already did. I usually do remember,just don't place exactly WHERE the info was given.
I will check it out. I found lots of pics on Google but you never know which squadron they are or whta time period. I understand the tanks underwent some mods after Epsom and before Goodwood,RE the exhaust scoops in back and also the "zimmerit".
Sorry Jerry, I wasn't having a dig; I just wish I was more of a WW2 expert and able to help a bit more.
Brian
jrutman
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 20, 2019 - 01:22 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextThanks man,
My very faulty memory does not help me remember when folks have been kind enough to send me stuff like you already did. I usually do remember,just don't place exactly WHERE the info was given.
I will check it out. I found lots of pics on Google but you never know which squadron they are or whta time period. I understand the tanks underwent some mods after Epsom and before Goodwood,RE the exhaust scoops in back and also the "zimmerit".
Sorry Jerry, I wasn't having a dig; I just wish I was more of a WW2 expert and able to help a bit more.
Brian
Yes,of course,no worries. I was just trying to explain the shortcomings of my current existence. I do remember you giving m info just now where it is!
I was wondering if the "A" squadron had any other specific markings other than the white triangle on the turret? I saw a Cromwel on line that had a whit"A" hastily painted on the glacis and so....
J
Hohenstaufen
Joined: December 13, 2004
KitMaker: 2,192 posts
Armorama: 1,615 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 20, 2019 - 11:37 AM UTC
Hi Jerry,
Brian has pretty much covered the markings, but he mentions the bridge classification plate; Jean Bouchery's "The British Soldier", volume 2, shows this as a yellow disc with white surround and white "27" for Cromwells. it's located on the front right lower hull (as you sit in the drivers seat). The other thing to watch out for is vehicle names; most if not all British cavalry and yeomanry (like National Guard) units used vehicle names and they weren't always random. A squadron might use names beginning with "A" for example. Alternatives were battle honours or place names local to the regiment. You can only find these out by researching the unit I'm afraid!
Brian has pretty much covered the markings, but he mentions the bridge classification plate; Jean Bouchery's "The British Soldier", volume 2, shows this as a yellow disc with white surround and white "27" for Cromwells. it's located on the front right lower hull (as you sit in the drivers seat). The other thing to watch out for is vehicle names; most if not all British cavalry and yeomanry (like National Guard) units used vehicle names and they weren't always random. A squadron might use names beginning with "A" for example. Alternatives were battle honours or place names local to the regiment. You can only find these out by researching the unit I'm afraid!
BootsDMS
Joined: February 08, 2012
KitMaker: 978 posts
Armorama: 965 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 20, 2019 - 02:11 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextQuoted TextThanks man,
My very faulty memory does not help me remember when folks have been kind enough to send me stuff like you already did. I usually do remember,just don't place exactly WHERE the info was given.
I will check it out. I found lots of pics on Google but you never know which squadron they are or whta time period. I understand the tanks underwent some mods after Epsom and before Goodwood,RE the exhaust scoops in back and also the "zimmerit".
Sorry Jerry, I wasn't having a dig; I just wish I was more of a WW2 expert and able to help a bit more.
Brian
Yes,of course,no worries. I was just trying to explain the shortcomings of my current existence. I do remember you giving m info just now where it is!
I was wondering if the "A" squadron had any other specific markings other than the white triangle on the turret? I saw a Cromwel on line that had a whit"A" hastily painted on the glacis and so....
J
Jerry,
Sorry - way off topic - but I just love the term "shortcomings of my current existence". That sums me up to a tee!
Brian
jrutman
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2019 - 04:02 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Jerry,
Brian has pretty much covered the markings, but he mentions the bridge classification plate; Jean Bouchery's "The British Soldier", volume 2, shows this as a yellow disc with white surround and white "27" for Cromwells. it's located on the front right lower hull (as you sit in the drivers seat). The other thing to watch out for is vehicle names; most if not all British cavalry and yeomanry (like National Guard) units used vehicle names and they weren't always random. A squadron might use names beginning with "A" for example. Alternatives were battle honours or place names local to the regiment. You can only find these out by researching the unit I'm afraid!
I have done the google thing for the unit,nothing there concerning nicknames. There are pics of vehicles but no time frame or units are mentioned.
Thanks for the comments though. Always thankful to find out I am not speaking to the wall.
J
jrutman
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2019 - 04:04 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextQuoted TextQuoted TextThanks man,
My very faulty memory does not help me remember when folks have been kind enough to send me stuff like you already did. I usually do remember,just don't place exactly WHERE the info was given.
I will check it out. I found lots of pics on Google but you never know which squadron they are or whta time period. I understand the tanks underwent some mods after Epsom and before Goodwood,RE the exhaust scoops in back and also the "zimmerit".
Sorry Jerry, I wasn't having a dig; I just wish I was more of a WW2 expert and able to help a bit more.
Brian
Yes,of course,no worries. I was just trying to explain the shortcomings of my current existence. I do remember you giving m info just now where it is!
I was wondering if the "A" squadron had any other specific markings other than the white triangle on the turret? I saw a Cromwel on line that had a whit"A" hastily painted on the glacis and so....
J
Jerry,
Sorry - way off topic - but I just love the term "shortcomings of my current existence". That sums me up to a tee!
Brian
Well yes,my advancing age has certainly led to all manner of "comings" being "shortened" I'm afraid! LoL
J
Hohenstaufen
Joined: December 13, 2004
KitMaker: 2,192 posts
Armorama: 1,615 posts
Posted: Friday, March 22, 2019 - 02:57 AM UTC
Jerry,
Does it have to be "A" Squadron? There appears to be clear photos of a "C" Squadron tank, with serial T167714, called "Agamemnon". It has a weird black stripe marking on the mantlet and what looks like black stripes on the side of the turret (rubber strips to prevent the attachment of sticky bombs or some leftover waterproofing from landing?). But it gives you a complete set of markings for a specific tank. Since 2 Northants Yeomanry was disbanded in August 1944 and it's members drafted elsewhere, any photos are likely of the "Epsom" or "Goodwood" battles.
Does it have to be "A" Squadron? There appears to be clear photos of a "C" Squadron tank, with serial T167714, called "Agamemnon". It has a weird black stripe marking on the mantlet and what looks like black stripes on the side of the turret (rubber strips to prevent the attachment of sticky bombs or some leftover waterproofing from landing?). But it gives you a complete set of markings for a specific tank. Since 2 Northants Yeomanry was disbanded in August 1944 and it's members drafted elsewhere, any photos are likely of the "Epsom" or "Goodwood" battles.
jrutman
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Friday, March 22, 2019 - 03:08 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Jerry,
Does it have to be "A" Squadron? There appears to be clear photos of a "C" Squadron tank, with serial T167714, called "Agamemnon". It has a weird black stripe marking on the mantlet and what looks like black stripes on the side of the turret (rubber strips to prevent the attachment of sticky bombs or some leftover waterproofing from landing?). But it gives you a complete set of markings for a specific tank. Since 2 Northants Yeomanry was disbanded in August 1944 and it's members drafted elsewhere, any photos are likely of the "Epsom" or "Goodwood" battles.
My focus has been on the Epsom battles and the dio I am working on concerns that and has a Cromwell in it. So it has to be the Northants and specifically "A" squadron as they were the only ones ready during that time. They advanced southwest of Cheux and were chewed up pretty badly. The rubber "zimmeret"was applied sometime between Epsom and Goodwood,so no good for my purposes but thanks for the input buddy!
J
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