Armor/AFV
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
Hosted by Darren Baker, Mario Matijasic
How do you use Vallejo paints?
Belt_Fed
Joined: February 02, 2008
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,325 posts
Posted: Monday, April 29, 2019 - 09:50 AM UTC
I shake them for about 30 seconds by smacking them against my hand. A fresh bottle of paint filled almost completely so it is hard for it to move around in the bottle. The ball bearing trick doesn't work well with MC paints because they are so thick.
Petro
Joined: November 02, 2003
KitMaker: 984 posts
Armorama: 846 posts
Posted: Monday, April 29, 2019 - 10:21 AM UTC
I recently got the Vallejo flow improver for Model Air ABing. It definitely makes a difference and I didn’t get the tip lockage as much as usual.
I tried ABing model color once, thinned probably 50% and still had problems.
Of all the paints I have tried ( Tamiya,,testor’s and Vallejo,) nothing hand brushes better then model color. ( or panzer Aces )
I tried ABing model color once, thinned probably 50% and still had problems.
Of all the paints I have tried ( Tamiya,,testor’s and Vallejo,) nothing hand brushes better then model color. ( or panzer Aces )
Scarred
Joined: March 11, 2016
KitMaker: 1,792 posts
Armorama: 1,186 posts
Posted: Monday, April 29, 2019 - 10:39 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Reading through all of the posts above I feel that I have made a correct decision when deciding that acrylics are not for me
Switching from enamels to acrylics was a bit of a learning curve. But like when I used enamels and lacquers I use the acrylic paint manufactures thinners to keep the problems to a minimum. Perhaps you should try crayons dude, simple, non-toxic and they probably stick to plastic better than some acrylics.
Denimo
Joined: August 29, 2017
KitMaker: 186 posts
Armorama: 173 posts
Posted: Monday, April 29, 2019 - 04:26 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextModel air or model color?
pertinent question... I have had little success airbrushing Model Color or brushing Model Air.
In any case, adding a bearing ball helps a lot -not only Vallejo but any brand.
In my opinion Model Air needs little to no thinning at all for airbrushing, while Model Color works better with 50% thinner for brushing.
Model Air is not for brushing. (The clue in the name)
PanzerKarl
Joined: April 20, 2004
KitMaker: 2,439 posts
Armorama: 1,980 posts
Posted: Monday, April 29, 2019 - 05:32 PM UTC
Model color is best used thinned with water,I mix a 50/50 mix on to a palette and paint on multi layers.also I think model color may be too thick to add a steel mixer.
RobinNilsson
TOS Moderator
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
Armorama: 5,562 posts
Posted: Monday, April 29, 2019 - 05:42 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextReading through all of the posts above I feel that I have made a correct decision when deciding that acrylics are not for me
Switching from enamels to acrylics was a bit of a learning curve. But like when I used enamels and lacquers I use the acrylic paint manufactures thinners to keep the problems to a minimum. Perhaps you should try crayons dude, simple, non-toxic and they probably stick to plastic better than some acrylics.
I did actually consider crayons once when some of the acrylics I did test were acting up and didn't want to stick.
I'll stick with the enamels and the turpentine
Living on the outskirts of a city and not spending time on polluted city streets gives me a good margin on the total exposure. Using solvents to stick the plastic pieces together and then worrying about a few drops of turpentine doesn't make sense to me.
Workmen exposed to enamels, laquers and solvents the whole work day is another thing. Maybe I have accumulated the equivalent of a few months of full time exposure. When I hit the exposure equivalent of 3 years of exposure I might consider thinking about it, IF it happens before I my centennial birthday .....
There is a lot of knowledge about exposure to thinners, solvents et.c. I don't know if there is an equivalent knowledge base when it comes to acrylics.
/ Robin
varanusk
Managing Editor
Joined: July 04, 2013
KitMaker: 1,288 posts
Armorama: 942 posts
Posted: Monday, April 29, 2019 - 06:35 PM UTC
Quoted Text
How do you mix or stir them? I shook the bejeebers out of the bottle but the paint that squeezed out was very thin and didn't cover well (which wasn't their reputation).
KL
Back to the original question. Model Color is not thin, in fact it should be thinned for use, so it may have been seating for a long time and you need to shake very well. As said, a steel agitator helps a lot (I got mine from 316 steel grade 100).
guni-kid
Joined: July 21, 2007
KitMaker: 521 posts
Armorama: 514 posts
Posted: Monday, April 29, 2019 - 07:58 PM UTC
Quoted Text
[...]
Hi, Kurt!
Yet ANOTHER problem with ACRYLICS!
I don't use acrylics for ANY of my airbrushing needs- They have caused MORE PROBLEMS for modelers since they first became available. I just this minute answered another post from another modeler who is experiencing problems with an acrylic paint. If you have to, or if you prefer to use acrylics, my suggestion would be to go back to an acrylic that is at least half-way reliable, such as TAMIYA's...
I personally, have had NO PROBLEMS with ANY of my TESTORS Model Master II ENAMELS since the 1980s... No exaggeration...
I know that I haven't been helpful for you in this respect at all, and that my comments are probably just wasting your time. Quite honestly, I think that if you switched back to the TAMIYA acrylics, they will probably be your best bet in achieving great results without the headaches...
VR, Dennis
That might be true but don't forget about VERY good ventilation when using enamels. They are seriously harmful if you don't have proper ventilation and some sort of mask. Also Tamiya is not a water based acrylic, it's an acrylic laquer. So here the health issue would also apply. Water based acrylics are way less harmful and spray well enough under all circumstances when handled right. I'm sorry to say that, but most of the times the problem is not the color but the user. Don't be mistaken, I'm also having my deal of problems with several brands and colors, but it's most definitely not to be over-simplified in the way of stating "Acrylics are bad". Just my opinion.
All those things are well and more than enough explained throughout this and other forums.
So I would advice checking the pros and cons of different colors including health issues.
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Monday, April 29, 2019 - 09:45 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text[...]
Hi, Kurt!
Yet ANOTHER problem with ACRYLICS!
I don't use acrylics for ANY of my airbrushing needs- They have caused MORE PROBLEMS for modelers since they first became available. I just this minute answered another post from another modeler who is experiencing problems with an acrylic paint. If you have to, or if you prefer to use acrylics, my suggestion would be to go back to an acrylic that is at least half-way reliable, such as TAMIYA's...
I personally, have had NO PROBLEMS with ANY of my TESTORS Model Master II ENAMELS since the 1980s... No exaggeration...
I know that I haven't been helpful for you in this respect at all, and that my comments are probably just wasting your time. Quite honestly, I think that if you switched back to the TAMIYA acrylics, they will probably be your best bet in achieving great results without the headaches...
VR, Dennis
That might be true but don't forget about VERY good ventilation when using enamels. They are seriously harmful if you don't have proper ventilation and some sort of mask. Also Tamiya is not a water based acrylic, it's an acrylic laquer. So here the health issue would also apply. Water based acrylics are way less harmful and spray well enough under all circumstances when handled right. I'm sorry to say that, but most of the times the problem is not the color but the user. Don't be mistaken, I'm also having my deal of problems with several brands and colors, but it's most definitely not to be over-simplified in the way of stating "Acrylics are bad". Just my opinion.
All those things are well and more than enough explained throughout this and other forums.
So I would advice checking the pros and cons of different colors including health issues.
Hello, Marian!
I didn't say that "acrylics are bad"; I said that "they have too many problems, which is why I don't like them". I think that I have a right to express my opinions regarding acrylics, because through the years that I have been reading the Forums on ARMORAMA, there seem to be an endless stream of modelers who have had their share of PROBLEMS WITH ACRYLICS.
I have been a modeler for over 61 years, now... People may call me "old fashioned" because I still use Enamels and Lacquers. I should think that I know enough about these substances as to take the proper precautions- My workshop is a separate room, with a rubber seal around the door, in order to prevent toxic fumes from invading the rest of the house. I use 5 different airbrushes coupled to 2 separate air compressors. Each airbrush is intended to be used for a specifically designated purpose, and labeled as such. One of my workbenches, (I have 4 of these), is my "Paint Station", with 2 Paint Booths. These Paint Booths are both filtered and fan-exhausted out of one of the back windows of my home, which incidentally, has a further exhaust fan installed. I ALWAYS wear a 3M mask with 2 fairly bulky air-filters which are specifically designed to arrest particles AND fumes of a toxic nature. I also wear goggles over my eyeglasses, which may be a bit of "over-kill", but my eyes are very important to me... Form-fitting nitrile gloves are also "de rigueur"...
So, yes- I think that I'm pretty well-informed and equipped to handle any toxic substances in the course of my modeling "addictions", which entail the use of my various adhesives, putties, paints, thinners, acetones, ammoniates and alcohols... I really don't need to be "advised" of the potential dangers of using enamels, lacquers, or anything else, Thank You...
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Monday, April 29, 2019 - 10:15 PM UTC
Quoted Text
With a wife that suffers migraines, where any strong perfume or paint smell can set her off, enamels are not an option.
I have used many acrylics over the years and the trick is NOT to expect them to all behave the same way, through your AB or as you paint them by brush.
Vallejo is NOT a one coat by brush product. It is designed to be applied in thin, controlled, coats. This way variation can be built up by using slightly darker/lighter colours for depth/highlights without ending up with a thick mess. It can be thinned with plain water but you must constantly mix it as the colours will separate as pigments fall to the bottom of the receptacle. I use this method to heavily dilute the paint to create a transparent dust coat on my models, where I can control the depth of colours in creases, etc, by brush, and avoid having the base colour altered or altered too much.
Tamiya acrylics are not brush friendly, but as long as you thin it and only paint small areas in one pass, to avoid lifting partially dried paint, it can be managed if needs be.
AK and MIG paints are also not suited to a one coat philosophy. Especially by air brush. Light coats, allowed to dry before the next will give you good results. Too much and you get a glossy mass, often dimpled, which pools heavily around detail.
The only way to get the results you want is to experiment. Once you have the desired result - remember it.
Some people have poor memories; my advice for these people is to write down what one has learned...
Regarding your advice in how to use acrylics- Well and good for the people who like all of the extra fuss and bother. That's why I still use Enamels and Lacquers...
ReluctantRenegade
Joined: March 09, 2016
KitMaker: 2,408 posts
Armorama: 2,300 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 30, 2019 - 12:11 AM UTC
Tamiya acrylics are exactly what their name suggests: acrylics. They're certainly not the usual kind because they do contain some other solvents apart from water, but generally paints are classified by their BINDERS (the particles that hold the pigments together, in this case acrylic compounds) rather than by their SOLVENTS. You can add different solvents to an acrylic paint (the same way enamels can be thinned with lacquer thinners), but after they evaporate the remaining film will still be acrylic.
KurtLaughlin
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,402 posts
Armorama: 2,377 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 02, 2019 - 04:11 AM UTC
Thanks for the hints. I got a chance last night to try taking the tips off some bottles and they came out and went back easily. Now I just have to make a narrower agitator for my Badger mixer.
KL
KL
justsendit
Joined: February 24, 2014
KitMaker: 3,033 posts
Armorama: 2,492 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 02, 2019 - 09:49 AM UTC
Quoted Text
... I got a chance last night to try taking the tips off some bottles and they came out and went back easily.
Just a little helpful tip (pun intended)... When the tips are actually clogged, and you squeeze the bottles too hard, they WILL come off very easily and you'll be left with a real mess.🍾
Cheers!🍺
—mike
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 02, 2019 - 01:00 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text... I got a chance last night to try taking the tips off some bottles and they came out and went back easily.
Just a little helpful tip (pun intended)... When the tips are actually clogged, and you squeeze the bottles too hard, they WILL come off very easily and you'll be left with a real mess.🍾
Cheers!🍺
—mike
Yet another reason why I stick to the "old-fashioned" paints which come in glass jars with metal screw-caps...
justsendit
Joined: February 24, 2014
KitMaker: 3,033 posts
Armorama: 2,492 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 02, 2019 - 01:33 PM UTC
Quoted Text
... Yet another reason why I stick to the "old-fashioned" paints which come in glass jars with metal screw-caps...
They have their own issues as well. Ultimately, I suppose it just boils down to personal preference.
Happy modeling!🎨
—mike
KurtLaughlin
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,402 posts
Armorama: 2,377 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 02, 2019 - 02:14 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Yet another reason why I stick to the "old-fashioned" paints which come in glass jars with metal screw-caps...
I have a couple that, despite vigorous efforts to keep the threads clean, are unopenable, even with channel-locks. Polypropylene bottles and caps in the standard size and configuration would be most welcome.
KL
panzerbob01
Joined: March 06, 2010
KitMaker: 3,128 posts
Armorama: 2,959 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 02, 2019 - 02:39 PM UTC
I had a LOT of experience with badly-stuck paint jar caps, owing to some bad storage practices over the past few decades... I didn't put them away with cleaned threads or whatever - just crammed them into a box and out to the garage with the lot. We're talking Pactra enamels, Floquil lacquers, Testor's enamels, acryls, etc.
I'm definitely not proud in any way to reveal this woeful mistreatment of paints, but the question is... could any be recovered and opened?
YES! Actually, I've managed to open every one I've tried... No broken bottles, either!
Need two channel-locks or similar, plus a piece of rubber inner-tube cut into a small (about 2 x 5 inches), and some near-boiling water. 1) set the bottle cap-up on a solid wood or other (NOT STONE or metal!) counter or chopping block. 2) Tap the cap with small downward strokes around the edge several times with a pair of pliers or a small tack hammer. 3) wrap the rubber sheet around the glass jar and grip that jar firmly with one plier. 4) Hold the cap end in the very hot water for a minute or so. 5) Grab cap with the other plier and twist it off.
If at first try it doesn't work, just repeat 1 - 5. It WILL loosen up.
The rubber ensures better and safer grip on the glass. Going around the stuck cap and squeezing it at different points while it is hot can also help.
I've read somewhere - but never tried it, so... - that soaking a stuck cap paint jar in thinner or brush-cleaner for enamels for a couple of days will help ease many of these little devils... Just another thought!
Bob
I didn't put them away with cleaned threads or whatever - just crammed them into a box and out to the garage with the lot. We're talking Pactra enamels, Floquil lacquers, Testor's enamels, acryls, etc. I'm definitely not proud in any way to reveal this woeful mistreatment of paints, but the question is... could any be recovered and opened?
YES! Actually, I've managed to open every one I've tried... No broken bottles, either!
Need two channel-locks or similar, plus a piece of rubber inner-tube cut into a small (about 2 x 5 inches), and some near-boiling water. 1) set the bottle cap-up on a solid wood or other (NOT STONE or metal!) counter or chopping block. 2) Tap the cap with small downward strokes around the edge several times with a pair of pliers or a small tack hammer. 3) wrap the rubber sheet around the glass jar and grip that jar firmly with one plier. 4) Hold the cap end in the very hot water for a minute or so. 5) Grab cap with the other plier and twist it off.
If at first try it doesn't work, just repeat 1 - 5. It WILL loosen up.
The rubber ensures better and safer grip on the glass. Going around the stuck cap and squeezing it at different points while it is hot can also help.
I've read somewhere - but never tried it, so... - that soaking a stuck cap paint jar in thinner or brush-cleaner for enamels for a couple of days will help ease many of these little devils... Just another thought!
Bob
KurtLaughlin
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,402 posts
Armorama: 2,377 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 02, 2019 - 02:59 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Actually, I've managed to open every one I've tried... No broken bottles, either!
Need two channel-locks or similar, plus a piece of rubber . . .
Eh, I'm not that hard up to put that much effort into salvaging a dollar's worth of paint when half the time what's in the bottle is solid anyway.
KL
27-1025
Joined: September 16, 2004
KitMaker: 1,281 posts
Armorama: 1,222 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 02, 2019 - 03:31 PM UTC
In addition to the already mentioned stainless steel ball bearings, I use a wet palate for brush painting Vallejo paints and just add one drop of Winsor & Newton Galeria Fluid Retarder. Helps the flow off the brush and minimizes brush marks.
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 02, 2019 - 09:09 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextActually, I've managed to open every one I've tried... No broken bottles, either!
Need two channel-locks or similar, plus a piece of rubber . . .
Eh, I'm not that hard up to put that much effort into salvaging a dollar's worth of paint when half the time what's in the bottle is solid anyway.
KL
Funny... I don't experience any of these problems with paint jars that "won't open". When I'm finished using that particular paint, I wipe the the bottle rims AND the INSIDES of the metal caps and "cap washers" with a solvent-moistened rag, seal the bottle and paint with a small piece of GLAD or SARAN Wrap stretched over the bottle's mouth, and away I go. Works for me, and I SAVE that $2.00-and-change worth of paint for another rainy day...
alanmac
Joined: February 25, 2007
KitMaker: 3,033 posts
Armorama: 2,953 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 02, 2019 - 09:22 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Funny... I don't experience any of these problems with paint jars that "won't open". When I'm finished using that particular paint, I wipe the the bottle rims AND the INSIDES of the metal caps and "cap washers" with a solvent-moistened rag, seal the bottle and paint with a small piece of GLAD or SARAN Wrap stretched over the bottle's mouth, and away I go. Works for me, and I SAVE that $2.00-and-change worth of paint for another rainy day...
I guess we can't all be as perfect as you Denis
KurtLaughlin
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,402 posts
Armorama: 2,377 posts
Posted: Friday, May 03, 2019 - 02:12 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Funny... I don't experience any of these problems with paint jars that "won't open". When I'm finished using that particular paint, I wipe the the bottle rims AND the INSIDES of the metal caps and "cap washers" with a solvent-moistened rag, seal the bottle and paint with a small piece of GLAD or SARAN Wrap stretched over the bottle's mouth, and away I go. Works for me, and I SAVE that $2.00-and-change worth of paint for another rainy day...
While I don't clean the threads that thoroughly I don't slop paint around either so I don't need much clean up. I tried plastic wrap (which is polyethylene) and it does nothing as it is too thin to act as an anti-seize for threads and too permeable to act as a seal.
In the end I'm content what I have but think that PP bottles would be an improvement.
KL
justsendit
Joined: February 24, 2014
KitMaker: 3,033 posts
Armorama: 2,492 posts
Posted: Friday, May 03, 2019 - 03:09 AM UTC
I think we can all agree that good clean habits can help to render the best results. 😷
—mike
—mike
panzerbob01
Joined: March 06, 2010
KitMaker: 3,128 posts
Armorama: 2,959 posts
Posted: Friday, May 03, 2019 - 06:34 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextActually, I've managed to open every one I've tried... No broken bottles, either!
Need two channel-locks or similar, plus a piece of rubber . . .
Eh, I'm not that hard up to put that much effort into salvaging a dollar's worth of paint when half the time what's in the bottle is solid anyway.
KL
Each his own! I spell out a successful remediation route for those who wish to use it if needs must. It takes very little time to try out. I avoid spending time or effort on a dry jar which doesn't appear to have "life" in it. Sadly, I don't know where I can buy any new model paints for a dollar per... let alone getting there for free or having it shipped for free. So salvaging old stuff is actually a cheap way to go.
And yes, cleaning cap and threads is surely a good way to go. When one takes a few years off painting, things can go awry... These sorts of problems are all "academic" to me once I got back onto the painting "saddle"
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Friday, May 03, 2019 - 07:16 AM UTC
As I stated above, I've pulled the "neck"off three Model Color bottles above, and two of the three no longer function properly, and have a tendency to pop off when squeezed-- there is apparently an easily broken "retainer" ring which keeps them inside the bottle, that's why I've gone with a modified "stirring stick" to knock the dried paint out of the neck.
I also have large quantities of Tamiya, Mr. Color, Testors, Floquil, MM and Alclad in my paint collection-- totaling over 500 bottles of all stripes (and colors---pun intended). Needless to say, I don't use them all at the same time, and occasionally need to deal with "lid crud". When I run into a "stubborn" bottle, regardless of of paint type, I turn the bottle upside down, and put a few drops of lacquer thinner around the cap rim with a pipette and let it sit a few minutes. Usually, after a good soak, I can twist the lid off easily. I also try to wipe out the lid before I seal the paint, and try to keep bottles tightly sealed, but the inevitable "lid crud" often appears in the next bottle. One other thing I do is keep lots of 1" sections of an old bicycle innertube (racing bike innnertubes are best) in a container on the bench. I wrap one around the lid and one around the body of the bottle for leverage. Using this method, I haven't had to resort to the "lid crushing" "pliers method" for many years. You can also use rubber bands in a pinch.
VR, Russ
I also have large quantities of Tamiya, Mr. Color, Testors, Floquil, MM and Alclad in my paint collection-- totaling over 500 bottles of all stripes (and colors---pun intended). Needless to say, I don't use them all at the same time, and occasionally need to deal with "lid crud". When I run into a "stubborn" bottle, regardless of of paint type, I turn the bottle upside down, and put a few drops of lacquer thinner around the cap rim with a pipette and let it sit a few minutes. Usually, after a good soak, I can twist the lid off easily. I also try to wipe out the lid before I seal the paint, and try to keep bottles tightly sealed, but the inevitable "lid crud" often appears in the next bottle. One other thing I do is keep lots of 1" sections of an old bicycle innertube (racing bike innnertubes are best) in a container on the bench. I wrap one around the lid and one around the body of the bottle for leverage. Using this method, I haven't had to resort to the "lid crushing" "pliers method" for many years. You can also use rubber bands in a pinch.
VR, Russ
 |
WEB HOSTING BY
Copyright ©2021 Armorama and Kitmaker Network, a subsidiary of Silver Star Enterprises
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.