How do you mix or stir them? I shook the bejeebers out of the bottle but the paint that squeezed out was very thin and didn't cover well (which wasn't their reputation).
KL
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How do you use Vallejo paints?
KurtLaughlin
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,402 posts
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Posted: Sunday, April 28, 2019 - 02:16 PM UTC
MassimoTessitori
Joined: March 14, 2013
KitMaker: 278 posts
Armorama: 278 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 28, 2019 - 04:52 PM UTC
Hi,
I had to insert a lead ball into each can to mix well the pigments, besides the unpigmented bonder inside the outlet has to be thrown.
The colors are well covering even with brush, the problem that I found is the vulnerability to hand friction.
I had to insert a lead ball into each can to mix well the pigments, besides the unpigmented bonder inside the outlet has to be thrown.
The colors are well covering even with brush, the problem that I found is the vulnerability to hand friction.
PanzerKarl
Joined: April 20, 2004
KitMaker: 2,439 posts
Armorama: 1,980 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 28, 2019 - 05:28 PM UTC
Model air or model color?
varanusk
Managing Editor
Joined: July 04, 2013
KitMaker: 1,288 posts
Armorama: 942 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 28, 2019 - 06:46 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Model air or model color?
pertinent question... I have had little success airbrushing Model Color or brushing Model Air.
In any case, adding a bearing ball helps a lot -not only Vallejo but any brand.
In my opinion Model Air needs little to no thinning at all for airbrushing, while Model Color works better with 50% thinner for brushing.
Scarred
Joined: March 11, 2016
KitMaker: 1,792 posts
Armorama: 1,186 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 28, 2019 - 06:57 PM UTC
Yeah, agitators help alot. So does a Robarts shaker. I use model air thinned about 10% with their thinner at 22psi, model color about 25% of their thinner at the same psi as model air.
phantom_phanatic309
#372
Joined: March 10, 2010
KitMaker: 2,568 posts
Armorama: 423 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 28, 2019 - 07:07 PM UTC
Be careful what you use as an agitator.
I added what were supposed to be stainless steel BB's to some of my Vallejo paints and they went rusty after a few weeks. Only found out when I picked up a bottle of pale sand and saw rust on the bottom.
A messy job to get them out and not sure if they are still usable now.
I added what were supposed to be stainless steel BB's to some of my Vallejo paints and they went rusty after a few weeks. Only found out when I picked up a bottle of pale sand and saw rust on the bottom.
A messy job to get them out and not sure if they are still usable now.
panzerbob01
Joined: March 06, 2010
KitMaker: 3,128 posts
Armorama: 2,959 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 28, 2019 - 07:18 PM UTC
Just recently used Model Color for the first time thru an AB...
It's VERY dry here in Arizona - which increases tip-dry problems beyond seen most places regardless of the paint or mix being used.
The Model Color performed reasonably well (albeit needing fairly frequent tip-cleaning with a wood toothpick...) when mixed about 1:1 with blue generic "Windex glass cleaner" pushed at about 20 PSI in an Iwata NEO TR2 trigger AB. (0.35mm needle). Same mix at 20 PSI thru an old Badger Revol. Velocity did somewhat better.
The M-C does need some assertive mixing and it comes out of the dropper bottle quite thick.
Generic blue glass cleaner has a "soap" in it, and performs as a thinner with a wetting agent for acryls. I buy the Great Value stuff in the squeeze bottle at the Walmart. Works well with Tamiya and Testor's Model Master acryls, too. It's also a mighty good AB flush and cleaner after acryl usage. For those sensitive about the possible Ammonia issues with some AB o-rings... the GV stuff comes in both ammoniated and ammonia-free versions.
Bob
It's VERY dry here in Arizona - which increases tip-dry problems beyond seen most places regardless of the paint or mix being used.
The Model Color performed reasonably well (albeit needing fairly frequent tip-cleaning with a wood toothpick...) when mixed about 1:1 with blue generic "Windex glass cleaner" pushed at about 20 PSI in an Iwata NEO TR2 trigger AB. (0.35mm needle). Same mix at 20 PSI thru an old Badger Revol. Velocity did somewhat better.
The M-C does need some assertive mixing and it comes out of the dropper bottle quite thick.
Generic blue glass cleaner has a "soap" in it, and performs as a thinner with a wetting agent for acryls. I buy the Great Value stuff in the squeeze bottle at the Walmart. Works well with Tamiya and Testor's Model Master acryls, too. It's also a mighty good AB flush and cleaner after acryl usage. For those sensitive about the possible Ammonia issues with some AB o-rings... the GV stuff comes in both ammoniated and ammonia-free versions.
Bob
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 28, 2019 - 09:06 PM UTC
Quoted Text
How do you mix or stir them? I shook the bejeebers out of the bottle but the paint that squeezed out was very thin and didn't cover well (which wasn't their reputation).
KL
Hi, Kurt!
Yet ANOTHER problem with ACRYLICS!
I don't use acrylics for ANY of my airbrushing needs- They have caused MORE PROBLEMS for modelers since they first became available. I just this minute answered another post from another modeler who is experiencing problems with an acrylic paint. If you have to, or if you prefer to use acrylics, my suggestion would be to go back to an acrylic that is at least half-way reliable, such as TAMIYA's...
I personally, have had NO PROBLEMS with ANY of my TESTORS Model Master II ENAMELS since the 1980s... No exaggeration...
I know that I haven't been helpful for you in this respect at all, and that my comments are probably just wasting your time. Quite honestly, I think that if you switched back to the TAMIYA acrylics, they will probably be your best bet in achieving great results without the headaches...
VR, Dennis
Lawyer1
Joined: July 22, 2015
KitMaker: 72 posts
Armorama: 67 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 28, 2019 - 10:34 PM UTC
I have to agree with Dennis when it comes to Tamiya Acrylics. Tamiya is my go-to paint when I'm airbrushing. I've been using Tamiya for years now and I've had no issues.
I have previously tried Vallejo and it just wouldn't go through my airbrush regardless how and with what I thinned it and psi setting. I eventually gave all my Vallejo paints to one of our club members. I have recently been persuaded to try Vallejo again and did some spraying over the weekend and it worked out okay with some Vallejo Flow Improver added.
My go-to paint is still Tamiya though.
I have previously tried Vallejo and it just wouldn't go through my airbrush regardless how and with what I thinned it and psi setting. I eventually gave all my Vallejo paints to one of our club members. I have recently been persuaded to try Vallejo again and did some spraying over the weekend and it worked out okay with some Vallejo Flow Improver added.
My go-to paint is still Tamiya though.
Tojo72
Joined: June 06, 2006
KitMaker: 4,691 posts
Armorama: 3,509 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 28, 2019 - 11:21 PM UTC
I also add in their Flow Improver,yes it is a big PITA but tbey have a good color selection.When I get back on the bench I am going to try some AK Real Color and some Mission Model stuff,have heard much good about them.
d6mst0
#453
Joined: August 28, 2016
KitMaker: 1,925 posts
Armorama: 601 posts
Posted: Monday, April 29, 2019 - 12:18 AM UTC
Quoted Text
How do you mix or stir them? I shook the bejeebers out of the bottle but the paint that squeezed out was very thin and didn't cover well (which wasn't their reputation).
KL
I put a stainless steel ball in all of my Vallejo paints and then run on the nail polish mixer for 15 seconds. This will loosen up the pigments that settles at the bottom. Then handshake the paint for another minute.
Mark
d6mst0
#453
Joined: August 28, 2016
KitMaker: 1,925 posts
Armorama: 601 posts
Posted: Monday, April 29, 2019 - 12:22 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Be careful what you use as an agitator.
I added what were supposed to be stainless steel BB's to some of my Vallejo paints and they went rusty after a few weeks. Only found out when I picked up a bottle of pale sand and saw rust on the bottom.
A messy job to get them out and not sure if they are still usable now.
I was worried about that same issue with rust so I purchased the BB's from a manufacture that makes ball bearings, haven't had a problem yet.
Mark
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Monday, April 29, 2019 - 03:16 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I have to agree with Dennis when it comes to Tamiya Acrylics.
I'll second that. I had some early problems with AB'ing Tamiya, but with their lacquer thinner (yellow top bottle), Tamiya acrylics give a nice even, durable finish. And is easy to clean!
KurtLaughlin
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,402 posts
Armorama: 2,377 posts
Posted: Monday, April 29, 2019 - 03:57 AM UTC
Further info: It's Model Color and I'm hand brushing.
Don't you have to cut the tip of the bottle off to put a BB in it? Doesn't that affect the cap seal?
Seems like a poor container design if the paint can't be used without removing one of the product's selling points; the ability to meter out the paint drop by drop.
KL
Don't you have to cut the tip of the bottle off to put a BB in it? Doesn't that affect the cap seal?
Seems like a poor container design if the paint can't be used without removing one of the product's selling points; the ability to meter out the paint drop by drop.
KL
KurtLaughlin
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,402 posts
Armorama: 2,377 posts
Posted: Monday, April 29, 2019 - 04:05 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextHow do you mix or stir them? I shook the bejeebers out of the bottle but the paint that squeezed out was very thin and didn't cover well (which wasn't their reputation).
KL
Hi, Kurt!
Yet ANOTHER problem with ACRYLICS!
I don't use acrylics for ANY of my airbrushing needs- They have caused MORE PROBLEMS for modelers since they first became available. I just this minute answered another post from another modeler who is experiencing problems with an acrylic paint. If you have to, or if you prefer to use acrylics, my suggestion would be to go back to an acrylic that is at least half-way reliable, such as TAMIYA's...
This isn't a problem with acrylic paints, it's a problem with Vallejo's bottles. I use acrylics (Tamiya and Testors) almost exclusively and have not had any problems that I could not trace to an issue that would affect latex, enamels, lacquers, or acrylics equally.
KL
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Monday, April 29, 2019 - 04:21 AM UTC
Kurt,
I've been experimenting with Vallejo myself for a few weeks now. Normally I use lacquers or enamels. I found a small plug of paint will sometimes form and block the neck of the bottle. I've had some success slipping a length of steel wire, with a slight bend in it, down the neck and "twirling" it. This breaks up the "plug". Then I put the bottle in a Robart paint shaker for about 10 minutes. This seems to take care of the problem for most bottles. But, I have run across at least two bottles that I've only succeeded in breaking the clog into smaller bits which eventually reform and clog the tip again. Next I'm thinking of using a pipette to drizzle in some Vallejo retarder to see how that works. I don't know if this is a problem with age-- my experience is Acrylics dry up faster once opened than other paints. I'm handbrushing with Vallejo Model Color and Vallejo Panzer Aces. I haven't had this problem with Model Air.
VR, Russ
I've been experimenting with Vallejo myself for a few weeks now. Normally I use lacquers or enamels. I found a small plug of paint will sometimes form and block the neck of the bottle. I've had some success slipping a length of steel wire, with a slight bend in it, down the neck and "twirling" it. This breaks up the "plug". Then I put the bottle in a Robart paint shaker for about 10 minutes. This seems to take care of the problem for most bottles. But, I have run across at least two bottles that I've only succeeded in breaking the clog into smaller bits which eventually reform and clog the tip again. Next I'm thinking of using a pipette to drizzle in some Vallejo retarder to see how that works. I don't know if this is a problem with age-- my experience is Acrylics dry up faster once opened than other paints. I'm handbrushing with Vallejo Model Color and Vallejo Panzer Aces. I haven't had this problem with Model Air.
VR, Russ
Scarred
Joined: March 11, 2016
KitMaker: 1,792 posts
Armorama: 1,186 posts
Posted: Monday, April 29, 2019 - 05:06 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Further info: It's Model Color and I'm hand brushing.
Don't you have to cut the tip of the bottle off to put a BB in it? Doesn't that affect the cap seal?
Seems like a poor container design if the paint can't be used without removing one of the product's selling points; the ability to meter out the paint drop by drop.
KL
You can pull the dropper out of the neck of the bottle, just wiggle it as you pull on it and it will pop out so you can put an agitator in the bottle, put the dropper back in and you're ready to rock. Same for AK and Ammo of Mig bottles. Don't use bb's or bearings without testing them first. To test them put them in a small flat dish put in enough salty water to almost cover the agitators, cover with plastic film and let stand a few days. If they rust or discolor don't use them in your paint. If you can't find stainless balls to use as agitators get creative, I've used small, washed pebbles in a pinch and small pieces of smooth glass aquarium gravel. Don't scoff, it works. Also some people around here have gotten creative with DIY shakers. Attaching a pill bottle large enough to hold a bottle of paint to a reciprocating saw blade and someone attached a clamp to a jig saw and used those to shake the bottle.
justsendit
Joined: February 24, 2014
KitMaker: 3,033 posts
Armorama: 2,492 posts
Posted: Monday, April 29, 2019 - 05:18 AM UTC
I spray Vallejo acrylics pretty much exclusively. I use Vallejo Thinner (71.161) when using their acrylics. In addition, I add a drop of Vallejo Airbrush Flow Improver (71.562).
Personally, I like the convenience of Vallejo's eye-dropper bottles for dispensing very small amounts of paint. If the bottles have been sitting around for extended periods, I'll just remove the tip (it's easy) and disloge any plugs with a toothpick. I use a Tamiya Stainless Steel Paint Stirrer to mix-up the pigments. Then, as with any paint, shaking is of the essence. HTH.
Cheers!🍺
—mike
Personally, I like the convenience of Vallejo's eye-dropper bottles for dispensing very small amounts of paint. If the bottles have been sitting around for extended periods, I'll just remove the tip (it's easy) and disloge any plugs with a toothpick. I use a Tamiya Stainless Steel Paint Stirrer to mix-up the pigments. Then, as with any paint, shaking is of the essence. HTH.
Cheers!🍺
—mike
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Monday, April 29, 2019 - 05:30 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextQuoted TextHow do you mix or stir them? I shook the bejeebers out of the bottle but the paint that squeezed out was very thin and didn't cover well (which wasn't their reputation).
KL
Hi, Kurt!
Yet ANOTHER problem with ACRYLICS!
I don't use acrylics for ANY of my airbrushing needs- They have caused MORE PROBLEMS for modelers since they first became available. I just this minute answered another post from another modeler who is experiencing problems with an acrylic paint. If you have to, or if you prefer to use acrylics, my suggestion would be to go back to an acrylic that is at least half-way reliable, such as TAMIYA's...
This isn't a problem with acrylic paints, it's a problem with Vallejo's bottles. I use acrylics (Tamiya and Testors) almost exclusively and have not had any problems that I could not trace to an issue that would affect latex, enamels, lacquers, or acrylics equally.
KL
Hi, Kurt!
If the bottles themselves are your problem, may I suggest cutting off the top of your bottle and dispensing the paint into a more suitable container such as the glass TESTORS Paint Jars with the "screw caps"..? I like to "seal" my paints by stretching a small piece of GLAD WRAP or SARAN WRAP over the bottles' mouths in order to keep them from drying out, prior to screwing the bottle cap back on.
An agitator of your own added to your paint MAY improve things for you. Personally, I like to stir my enamels and lacquers thoroughly BEFORE shaking them. I DO NOT use agitators of any kind. They have caused problems for me in the past... I can see where you're experiencing some frustration in not being able to "mix" your paints properly. That's just another reason why I stick with the "old-fashioned" TESTORS Model Master II Enamels and Lacquers- One only has to unscrew the bottle cap to do whatever you want to with the paint. Same goes for TAMIYA's and LIFE COLOR's acrylics. I DO like certain TAMIYA and LIFE COLOR acrylics for some of my brush-painting tasks, such as my figure-painting...
Mostly though, I will use my MM II Enamels for my figure-painting and certain detailing tasks...I just DON'T like any acrylics for airbrushing- too many problems with clogging and/or premature drying- And that's WITH following the manufacturers' instructions TO THE LETTER...
I don't like "additives" in my paints as a general thing, aside of the proper, i.e, same manufacturers' thinners...
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Monday, April 29, 2019 - 08:25 AM UTC
Quoted Text
...If the bottles have been sitting around for extended periods, I'll just remove the tip (it's easy) and disloge any plugs with a toothpick...
You guys must be using different Vallejo paint bottles than I am. I've experimented with taking off the tips. I don't like doing that, because of the three bottles I've done that with, two of them don't seat right anymore, and when I squeeze the bottle for a drop of paint, the entire top just pops off.
VR, Russ
barkingdigger
Associate Editor
#013
Joined: June 20, 2008
KitMaker: 3,981 posts
Armorama: 3,403 posts
Posted: Monday, April 29, 2019 - 08:39 AM UTC
Hi Kurt,
As said earlier, grab the eyedropper tip and wiggle - the tip flares out horizontal to form a roughly 3/8" diameter plug in the top of the bottle.
If the tip is clogged, pull it out and run it under warm water to get the paint out. I sometimes need to push through with a high-tech tool - an unbent paperclip!
Be sure to mix the paint with distilled water in a palette (mine uses old plastic bottlecaps) as the raw paint is too thick to brush well. Unless you are dry-brushing - then use it straight.
As said earlier, grab the eyedropper tip and wiggle - the tip flares out horizontal to form a roughly 3/8" diameter plug in the top of the bottle.
If the tip is clogged, pull it out and run it under warm water to get the paint out. I sometimes need to push through with a high-tech tool - an unbent paperclip!
Be sure to mix the paint with distilled water in a palette (mine uses old plastic bottlecaps) as the raw paint is too thick to brush well. Unless you are dry-brushing - then use it straight.
barkingdigger
Associate Editor#013
Joined: June 20, 2008
KitMaker: 3,981 posts
Armorama: 3,403 posts
Posted: Monday, April 29, 2019 - 08:46 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
...If the bottles have been sitting around for extended periods, I'll just remove the tip (it's easy) and disloge any plugs with a toothpick...
You guys must be using different Vallejo paint bottles than I am. I've experimented with taking off the tips. I don't like doing that, because of the three bottles I've done that with, two of them don't seat right anymore, and when I squeeze the bottle for a drop of paint, the entire top just pops off.
VR, Russ
That can happen if the hole gets too stretched. And you need to clean the inside of the bottle top so the tip gets a good plastic-to-plastic contact surface with no paint in the way.
RobinNilsson
TOS Moderator
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
Armorama: 5,562 posts
Posted: Monday, April 29, 2019 - 08:48 AM UTC
Reading through all of the posts above I feel that I have made a correct decision when deciding that acrylics are not for me
justsendit
Joined: February 24, 2014
KitMaker: 3,033 posts
Armorama: 2,492 posts
Posted: Monday, April 29, 2019 - 09:11 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Reading through all of the posts above I feel that I have made a correct decision when deciding that acrylics are not for me
I just try to avoid the fumes given off by enamel/lacquer base paints whenever possible. So, acrylics "are" the way to go for me.🎨 ... And in case it should come up... yes, I still use a spray booth and a respirator when airbrushing.
Cheers!🍺
—mike
petbat
Joined: August 06, 2005
KitMaker: 3,353 posts
Armorama: 3,121 posts
Posted: Monday, April 29, 2019 - 09:48 AM UTC
With a wife that suffers migraines, where any strong perfume or paint smell can set her off, enamels are not an option.
I have used many acrylics over the years and the trick is NOT to expect them to all behave the same way, through your AB or as you paint them by brush.
Vallejo is NOT a one coat by brush product. It is designed to be applied in thin, controlled, coats. This way variation can be built up by using slightly darker/lighter colours for depth/highlights without ending up with a thick mess. It can be thinned with plain water but you must constantly mix it as the colours will separate as pigments fall to the bottom of the receptacle. I use this method to heavily dilute the paint to create a transparent dust coat on my models, where I can control the depth of colours in creases, etc, by brush, and avoid having the base colour altered or altered too much.
Tamiya acrylics are not brush friendly, but as long as you thin it and only paint small areas in one pass, to avoid lifting partially dried paint, it can be managed if needs be.
AK and MIG paints are also not suited to a one coat philosophy. Especially by air brush. Light coats, allowed to dry before the next will give you good results. Too much and you get a glossy mass, often dimpled, which pools heavily around detail.
The only way to get the results you want is to experiment. Once you have the desired result - remember it.
I have used many acrylics over the years and the trick is NOT to expect them to all behave the same way, through your AB or as you paint them by brush.
Vallejo is NOT a one coat by brush product. It is designed to be applied in thin, controlled, coats. This way variation can be built up by using slightly darker/lighter colours for depth/highlights without ending up with a thick mess. It can be thinned with plain water but you must constantly mix it as the colours will separate as pigments fall to the bottom of the receptacle. I use this method to heavily dilute the paint to create a transparent dust coat on my models, where I can control the depth of colours in creases, etc, by brush, and avoid having the base colour altered or altered too much.
Tamiya acrylics are not brush friendly, but as long as you thin it and only paint small areas in one pass, to avoid lifting partially dried paint, it can be managed if needs be.
AK and MIG paints are also not suited to a one coat philosophy. Especially by air brush. Light coats, allowed to dry before the next will give you good results. Too much and you get a glossy mass, often dimpled, which pools heavily around detail.
The only way to get the results you want is to experiment. Once you have the desired result - remember it.
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