I've contacted Dragon about this so let's see how Dragon Care performs on my problem.
Anybody ever have a problem like mine ?
Hosted by Darren Baker
a BIG Dragon error !
ivanhoe6
Joined: April 05, 2007
KitMaker: 2,023 posts
Armorama: 1,234 posts
Posted: Friday, October 04, 2019 - 11:11 AM UTC
Now this is a first for me. I just started Dragon's Kleiner Pz. Bef. Wg.1, Kit#6597. On the cover page black sprue L it shows 6 part #1 road wheels & 2 Part#2 wheels. There is no Lx2 in the diagram or a second sprue. You need 8 total wheels(part L1) to build this kit. How in the world did this get out the door?
I've contacted Dragon about this so let's see how Dragon Care performs on my problem.
Anybody ever have a problem like mine ?
I've contacted Dragon about this so let's see how Dragon Care performs on my problem.
Anybody ever have a problem like mine ?
barkingdigger
Associate Editor
#013
Joined: June 20, 2008
KitMaker: 3,981 posts
Armorama: 3,403 posts
Posted: Friday, October 04, 2019 - 11:18 AM UTC
A quick bit of googling shows that this is a well-known problem. Seems the original run of the kit lacked a second L sprue for the extra wheels, and was also short of track links. Not sure how you can fix it - maybe Dragon Care might help out? Or there's ebay, or you can ask for the spares in the Buy/Sell/Trade forum. Good luck!
KurtLaughlin
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,402 posts
Armorama: 2,377 posts
Posted: Friday, October 04, 2019 - 11:37 AM UTC
You are more likely to be successful getting the leftover "A" sprue wheels from somebody's Pz I kit. DML introduced the "L" sprue when they revised the roadwheels to include the PE rims. The "A" sprue was retained for other parts, so they ought to be in people's parts boxes. These won't accept the PE rims, but DML doesn't give you enough of them, either, so you might as well use the single piece wheels.
Looks like they didn't realize a Pz IB had 10 wheels and the Pz IA only 8.
KL
Looks like they didn't realize a Pz IB had 10 wheels and the Pz IA only 8.
KL
ctkwok
Joined: May 21, 2018
KitMaker: 197 posts
Armorama: 183 posts
Posted: Friday, October 04, 2019 - 02:59 PM UTC
I can confirm that my DAK IB has 12 wheels, so there are spares if you want it, let me know.
b2nhvi
Joined: June 17, 2016
KitMaker: 1,124 posts
Armorama: 1,014 posts
Posted: Friday, October 04, 2019 - 03:53 PM UTC
I thought Dragon was a synonym for "Error".
BogiBg
Joined: May 29, 2018
KitMaker: 397 posts
Armorama: 388 posts
Posted: Friday, October 04, 2019 - 04:09 PM UTC
I used Tristar Pz.1 kit as donor. For 20 euro I got interior, more accurate wheels end tracks.
PzDave
Joined: November 28, 2012
KitMaker: 319 posts
Armorama: 285 posts
Posted: Friday, October 04, 2019 - 09:22 PM UTC
Don't know why they could not just send you the replacement sprues/parts? I lost the shield from a 1/16th scale Spartan figure made by Miniart.Even though I lost it and it was not their fault they send me a replacement! All the way from Kiev. God Bless Miniart.
ivanhoe6
Joined: April 05, 2007
KitMaker: 2,023 posts
Armorama: 1,234 posts
Posted: Friday, October 04, 2019 - 10:24 PM UTC
Tom, never thought about Googling for kit info, good idea thanks !
Now I have to deal with being short of links too
Next project is counting links
I have contacted Dragon Care but no response yet but it looks like I'll have to amend my help ticket
Cody, thanks for your generous offer ! I will PM you with my personal info. Thanks again !!!
Bogi, this whole project started out as a cold, rainy Saturday project, something I could knock out over the weekend. Just imagine, the poor guy who originally bought the kit paid U$54 for it. I bought it for $20 still in the bags at a show. Maybe that's why it was on the table.
Thanks guys for your input AND Cody your kind offer !
This is what makes Armorama such a great site all of the knowledge & help that's freely given !
Now I have to deal with being short of links too
Next project is counting links
I have contacted Dragon Care but no response yet but it looks like I'll have to amend my help ticket
Cody, thanks for your generous offer ! I will PM you with my personal info. Thanks again !!!
Bogi, this whole project started out as a cold, rainy Saturday project, something I could knock out over the weekend. Just imagine, the poor guy who originally bought the kit paid U$54 for it. I bought it for $20 still in the bags at a show. Maybe that's why it was on the table.
Thanks guys for your input AND Cody your kind offer !
This is what makes Armorama such a great site all of the knowledge & help that's freely given !
KurtLaughlin
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,402 posts
Armorama: 2,377 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2019 - 12:51 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Don't know why they could not just send you the replacement sprues/parts? I lost the shield from a 1/16th scale Spartan figure made by Miniart.Even though I lost it and it was not their fault they send me a replacement! All the way from Kiev. God Bless Miniart.
Because they don't have any to send. Replacement parts come from returns and damaged kits. For older kits there just might not be any on hand. There was post within the last week that went over the process in detail.
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/280430&page=1
Miniart is a smaller company and their practices represent their approach to customer relations.
KL
RobinNilsson
TOS ModeratorJoined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
Armorama: 5,562 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2019 - 01:08 AM UTC
"Miniart is a smaller company and their practices represent their approach to customer relations."
and Dragons practices represents their approach
and Dragons practices represents their approach
KurtLaughlin
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,402 posts
Armorama: 2,377 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2019 - 02:47 AM UTC
Quoted Text
"Miniart is a smaller company and their practices represent their approach to customer relations."
and Dragons practices represents their approach
Obviously, but ultimately the decision to buy a model kit is nearly always and nearly completely decided by the subject matter and the general initial quality of the brand. A cool subject that is reasonably buildable and offered at a tolerable price will sell regardless of how the company's post-sale customer support is perceived. (I know that there are a number of people who claim they will never buy another DML kit because of some experience from 2002, but they are being foolish and spiteful to their own detriment.)
A notable exception I recall was Accurate Armour in their heyday. Numerous people raved about their customer service, noting that even when they had to go back to them a second time (because the replacements sent were also bad) they were apologetic and prompt in remedying the situation. The fact that it appeared that there was about an even chance with every kit you bought that you would need to use their customer service didn't seem to trouble anyone.
KL
TankCarl
Joined: May 10, 2002
KitMaker: 3,581 posts
Armorama: 2,782 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2019 - 02:54 AM UTC
A few years back, I bought and started building the Dragon 1/6th scale M4A375 (W). It was short 1/2 the extended end connectors the kit needed, and had some short shot track block halves. I did do a dragon care ticket, and in 2 weeks, I had the necessary parts. 
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2019 - 03:59 AM UTC
Quoted Text
A few years back, I bought and started building the Dragon 1/6th scale M4A375 (W). It was short 1/2 the extended end connectors the kit needed, and had some short shot track block halves. I did do a dragon care ticket, and in 2 weeks, I had the necessary parts.
Because they had the parts on hand. Could be because the 1/6th scale stuff doesn't sell as well, or they just happened to have a kit to rob parts from. If it was a "few years back" as you say, if you bought the kit today, and were missing parts, it would likely be hard to get them now. Kurt linked the reason for this in the post above. Bottom line--the older a kit gets, the harder it is to get replacement parts. And that's really true of all manufacturers. But the real problem here is the error in the first place. Which really shouldn't have happened. I'm with Kurt, you might be better off asking for the parts from other modelers-- and that's why we have this great Kitmaker website! Good luck!
VR, Russ
panzerbob01
Joined: March 06, 2010
KitMaker: 3,128 posts
Armorama: 2,959 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2019 - 05:56 AM UTC
I have the same "Kleiner" kit...
But, so, OK, the D did another of its litany of errors and missed a sprue. Happily, if you have any other of many other D Pz 1a / b kits, you will have some extra roadies and some extra track links that will fit the shorted kit.
The slightly larger challenge for those later Pz 1 "smart" kits is when one finds that he / she has been shorted those little PE reinforcement rings for those roadies... No Pz 1b derivative kit seems to come with extras - and those rings do add a very nice detail to those wheels. When applied, you'll get about the best Pz 1 roadie going - as those wheels had these extra layer reinforcement rings- and the only realistic way to get that detail is to actually have some added rings.
PS: I'm also a fan of Tristar's Pz 1 kits - but their roadies, while very nicely molded, simply come up second when compared to roadies with the added rings. If only I had a way of making tiny PE rings in good supply...
Cheers. Bob
But, so, OK, the D did another of its litany of errors and missed a sprue. Happily, if you have any other of many other D Pz 1a / b kits, you will have some extra roadies and some extra track links that will fit the shorted kit.
The slightly larger challenge for those later Pz 1 "smart" kits is when one finds that he / she has been shorted those little PE reinforcement rings for those roadies... No Pz 1b derivative kit seems to come with extras - and those rings do add a very nice detail to those wheels. When applied, you'll get about the best Pz 1 roadie going - as those wheels had these extra layer reinforcement rings- and the only realistic way to get that detail is to actually have some added rings.
PS: I'm also a fan of Tristar's Pz 1 kits - but their roadies, while very nicely molded, simply come up second when compared to roadies with the added rings. If only I had a way of making tiny PE rings in good supply...
Cheers. Bob
ctkwok
Joined: May 21, 2018
KitMaker: 197 posts
Armorama: 183 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2019 - 06:08 AM UTC
If you have a fine circle cutter that can do the radius this should be easy with thin styrene stock. Alternatively you can probably stencil it from the D rings. It's two concentric circles so it cannot be *that* hard.
Thanks for the comparison on TriStar kits, didn't know the rings matter so much.
Thanks for the comparison on TriStar kits, didn't know the rings matter so much.
BogiBg
Joined: May 29, 2018
KitMaker: 397 posts
Armorama: 388 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2019 - 06:28 AM UTC
Quoted Text
PS: I'm also a fan of Tristar's Pz 1 kits - but their roadies, while very nicely molded, simply come up second when compared to roadies with the added rings. If only I had a way of making tiny PE rings in good supply...
Cheers. Bob
It's little out of topic but Tristar kit have those rings separate, too. And correct return rollers. Only problem is, since Tristar kit is ausf.A, it is short of one of them.
KurtLaughlin
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,402 posts
Armorama: 2,377 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2019 - 09:27 AM UTC
Quoted Text
If you have a fine circle cutter that can do the radius this should be easy with thin styrene stock. Alternatively you can probably stencil it from the D rings. It's two concentric circles so it cannot be *that* hard.
Have you tried it? It's difficult enough to cut a narrow ring out of .005 stock without tearing or kinking, but getting the ID and OD concentric and making even a few of them to the same size is quite a chore.
KL
ctkwok
Joined: May 21, 2018
KitMaker: 197 posts
Armorama: 183 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2019 - 10:39 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextIf you have a fine circle cutter that can do the radius this should be easy with thin styrene stock. Alternatively you can probably stencil it from the D rings. It's two concentric circles so it cannot be *that* hard.
Have you tried it? It's difficult enough to cut a narrow ring out of .005 stock without tearing or kinking, but getting the ID and OD concentric and making even a few of them to the same size is quite a chore.
KL
Sorry, I re-read the forum rules and I missed the part that says brainstorming ideas have to be subjected to your approval too. I won't make the same mistake next time.
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2019 - 12:05 PM UTC
From past experience with Dragon (I don't) Care, they will refuse to send a part that is not mentioned in the instructions. "If it wasn't in the instructions, then it's not missing"...that on their belief that Dragon instructions (if not specified to the contrary by a notice) are never wrong. Very dogmatic philosophy! They won't even sell you parts - or sprues.
nsjohn
Joined: July 26, 2018
KitMaker: 279 posts
Armorama: 265 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2019 - 12:31 PM UTC
I'm sorry,but I have to wade in by repeating the comments I made in the other thread about DS tracks, namely the merchantability of their kits. The poster was entitled to expect that the model could be constructed entirely from the kit contents, and quite frankly missing wheels is somewhat fundamental to that. Obviously if this were a "one-off" error then the matter should be remedied by their customer care dept, but from the earlier posts It would appear that this problem affected an entire run of kits. The comparison with Miniart is very pertinent as when they discovered an error with their Panzer 111 kit and corrected it they publicly stated their error and invited purchasers of the original to contact them and sent them the corrected parts. To add insult to injury Dragon market their kits as being premium products at least in the UK and price them accordingly.
KurtLaughlin
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,402 posts
Armorama: 2,377 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2019 - 01:12 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextQuoted TextIf you have a fine circle cutter that can do the radius this should be easy with thin styrene stock. Alternatively you can probably stencil it from the D rings. It's two concentric circles so it cannot be *that* hard.
Have you tried it? It's difficult enough to cut a narrow ring out of .005 stock without tearing or kinking, but getting the ID and OD concentric and making even a few of them to the same size is quite a chore.
KL
Sorry, I re-read the forum rules and I missed the part that says brainstorming ideas have to be subjected to your approval too. I won't make the same mistake next time.
It's not your idea that I commented on, but your apparently ill-informed belief that it wouldn't be a difficult task.
KL
ctkwok
Joined: May 21, 2018
KitMaker: 197 posts
Armorama: 183 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2019 - 02:04 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextQuoted TextQuoted TextIf you have a fine circle cutter that can do the radius this should be easy with thin styrene stock. Alternatively you can probably stencil it from the D rings. It's two concentric circles so it cannot be *that* hard.
Have you tried it? It's difficult enough to cut a narrow ring out of .005 stock without tearing or kinking, but getting the ID and OD concentric and making even a few of them to the same size is quite a chore.
KL
Sorry, I re-read the forum rules and I missed the part that says brainstorming ideas have to be subjected to your approval too. I won't make the same mistake next time.
It's not your idea that I commented on, but your apparently ill-informed belief that it wouldn't be a difficult task.
KL
Just because it's hard for you doesn't mean it's hard for me, you know, this is as subjective as it goes. Nothing to do with information, nor worth arguing about, unless you're trying to make your daily quota of negative internet comments.
I can demonstrate how it is done by making a couple of those for Tom since he's still missing them, if you're willing to make it worth my time.
panzerbob01
Joined: March 06, 2010
KitMaker: 3,128 posts
Armorama: 2,959 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2019 - 02:28 PM UTC
Well... Fat fingers and sometimes-troubled eye-sight have I!
The concept of cutting paired concentricities is great - done a fair amount of that on various milling machines over the years - but it is passingly difficult when you are trying out thin styrene sheet or thin brass sheet and doing rather smallish rings.
Not in any way a BAD idea, but sadly pretty difficult for most of us to realize in our hobby rooms.
Myself... I've toyed with making some photo etch at home.
For those who do manage to successfully make these at home in any sort of relatively-efficient manner... ALL POWER to you!
Bob
The concept of cutting paired concentricities is great - done a fair amount of that on various milling machines over the years - but it is passingly difficult when you are trying out thin styrene sheet or thin brass sheet and doing rather smallish rings.
Not in any way a BAD idea, but sadly pretty difficult for most of us to realize in our hobby rooms.
Myself... I've toyed with making some photo etch at home.
For those who do manage to successfully make these at home in any sort of relatively-efficient manner... ALL POWER to you!
Bob
BogiBg
Joined: May 29, 2018
KitMaker: 397 posts
Armorama: 388 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2019 - 04:29 PM UTC
Guys... I was thinking... Since I changed wheels on my Pz.1, I should have bunch of Dragon ones. And a unpacked set of tracks, maybe more. I can send them to someone in States on my expense and then he can send them to rest of you. So, how many of you needs them?
ivanhoe6
Joined: April 05, 2007
KitMaker: 2,023 posts
Armorama: 1,234 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2019 - 11:49 PM UTC
Bogi, thanks for your VERY generous offer !!! Cody and I have been in contact. He has the wheels and some extra links to bail Dragon out on their error. Thanks again Cody !!!
A couple of years back I did try and work with Dragon Care and failed miserably. Arrogance might describe our exchanges. That was for a missing part. This request is for a total screw up on their part. A screw up they have to know about.
Kurt, I'm thinking that you are right about how they generate missing parts. And this being a much older kit chances may be slim.
But, I'm an optimist. I only contacted Dragon Friday afternoon. Let's see how they deal with my problem.
Thanks to everybody who has responded with help, tips and experiences ! What had started out as an easy, cold, wet weekend build has turned into an adventure !
A couple of years back I did try and work with Dragon Care and failed miserably. Arrogance might describe our exchanges. That was for a missing part. This request is for a total screw up on their part. A screw up they have to know about.
Kurt, I'm thinking that you are right about how they generate missing parts. And this being a much older kit chances may be slim.
But, I'm an optimist. I only contacted Dragon Friday afternoon. Let's see how they deal with my problem.
Thanks to everybody who has responded with help, tips and experiences ! What had started out as an easy, cold, wet weekend build has turned into an adventure !
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