So I was looking on scale mates and i came across this, https://www.scalemates.com/kits/tamiya-37028-m47-patton--1265596
The picture is blurry when it comes to the decals but i see a set of R-01 decals, I just finished my Hessler Tiger tank and those are the same identification numbers on it, also it looks as if the kit comea with WW2 german crosses as well! can anyone else confirm this ?
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Tamiya M47?
GregCopplin
Joined: September 06, 2011
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Posted: Saturday, February 01, 2020 - 04:16 PM UTC
GaryKato
Joined: December 06, 2004
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Posted: Saturday, February 01, 2020 - 04:44 PM UTC
Kit numbers that start with 35XXX are Tamiya. Kits that start with 37XXX are Italeri. The markings are probably from the movie "Battle of the Bulge" where they used M47s as Tiger tanks.
GregCopplin
Joined: September 06, 2011
KitMaker: 212 posts
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Posted: Saturday, February 01, 2020 - 06:15 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Kit numbers that start with 35XXX are Tamiya. Kits that start with 37XXX are Italeri. The markings are probably from the movie "Battle of the Bulge" where they used M47s as Tiger tanks.
That’s what I’m saying are these battle of the bulge movie decals , someone on another forum said those were the right tactical markings for a bundeswehr tank as well. I just can’t tell if the crosses are the bundeswehr one or a mix of that and the German WW2 cross
Kornbeef
Joined: November 06, 2005
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Posted: Saturday, February 01, 2020 - 10:12 PM UTC
It says West German, not German and the crossses are the later type. So Bundeswehr for certain
HermannB
Joined: October 14, 2008
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Posted: Saturday, February 01, 2020 - 10:29 PM UTC
I see both Eisernes Kreuz for Bundeswehr and Balkenkreuz for Wehrmacht. So it`s possible that we see the version of the BoB movie.
HermannB
Joined: October 14, 2008
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Posted: Saturday, February 01, 2020 - 10:39 PM UTC
Video of the Toy Fair 2020.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=ub0hWvv_Wrs
Stzarting from the 36 min mark, you can see the kit and the decals. Definitly both Wehrmacht and Bundeswehr.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=ub0hWvv_Wrs
Stzarting from the 36 min mark, you can see the kit and the decals. Definitly both Wehrmacht and Bundeswehr.
tanknick22
Joined: February 19, 2009
KitMaker: 1,139 posts
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Posted: Saturday, February 01, 2020 - 11:13 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextKit numbers that start with 35XXX are Tamiya. Kits that start with 37XXX are Italeri. The markings are probably from the movie "Battle of the Bulge" where they used M47s as Tiger tanks.
That’s what I’m saying are these battle of the bulge movie decals , someone on another forum said those were the right tactical markings for a bundeswehr tank as well. I just can’t tell if the crosses are the bundeswehr one or a mix of that and the German WW2 cross
there are both markings Bundeswehr and Battle of the Bulge movie markings
Bundeswehr has the Maltese cross and a tactical number of 724
Battle of the Bulge Movie tiger WW2 cross and tactical marking R-01
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
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Posted: Saturday, February 01, 2020 - 11:17 PM UTC
barkingdigger
Associate Editor
#013
Joined: June 20, 2008
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Posted: Saturday, February 01, 2020 - 11:49 PM UTC
Assuming the yellow parts on the unpainted kit are new, Tamiya seem to have a bloated version of the rubberized canvas mantlet dust cover!
BootsDMS
Joined: February 08, 2012
KitMaker: 978 posts
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Posted: Sunday, February 02, 2020 - 02:32 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Assuming the yellow parts on the unpainted kit are new, Tamiya seem to have a bloated version of the rubberized canvas mantlet dust cover!
Tom,
I'm afraid I disagree; it looks to me as though Tamiya have done quite well with their rendering of what, after all, is a fairly comprehensive piece of kit in the M47 mantlet cover. Any enhancement to what is the basic Italeri kit (which is actually very good indeed) is, I feel, to be commended. At least now - upon production - it means that we modellers no longer have to wrestle with tissue paper or Milliput in adding this feature.
Of course, time will tell once we have closer looks at the sprues and build-articles, but "bloated"? No.
Brian
barkingdigger
Associate Editor#013
Joined: June 20, 2008
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Posted: Sunday, February 02, 2020 - 03:03 AM UTC
Hi Brian,
I was referring to the forward part of the cover, extending along the gun tube. If you look at the museum pic behind the model on the display, you can see the cover fits itself to the barrel, only flaring out where it widens to meet the mantlet. And there should be loose folds hanging down under the barrel. But the kit part is a fat cone, as if it was stuffed like a teddy bear. Takom did the same thing on theirs. Still, we'll see what it looks like when it hits the shelves!
I was referring to the forward part of the cover, extending along the gun tube. If you look at the museum pic behind the model on the display, you can see the cover fits itself to the barrel, only flaring out where it widens to meet the mantlet. And there should be loose folds hanging down under the barrel. But the kit part is a fat cone, as if it was stuffed like a teddy bear. Takom did the same thing on theirs. Still, we'll see what it looks like when it hits the shelves!
BootsDMS
Joined: February 08, 2012
KitMaker: 978 posts
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Posted: Sunday, February 02, 2020 - 04:15 AM UTC
Tom,
I do take your point; I've just had a refresh with my Tankograd book on Bundeswehr M47s.
I appreciate the Teddy Bear analogy and concur there should have been a bit more "draping" etc. However, at least Tamiya have included this feature which will, for some modellers obviate the need to wrestle with Milliput. That said, through sheer necessity I've become (IMHO) moderately adept at making my own eg Tamiya's ancient M41, the M47 - obviously - and even a mantlet cover on a What-If MBT 70. All it took was a small amount of courage, application of Milliput (or similar), and some careful forming using cocktail sticks and paintbrush handles. trim carefully and job more or less done.
However, as I say, at least Tamiya and Takom for that matter,. have made an effort.
These are seriously good times to be modellers are they not?!
Brian
I do take your point; I've just had a refresh with my Tankograd book on Bundeswehr M47s.
I appreciate the Teddy Bear analogy and concur there should have been a bit more "draping" etc. However, at least Tamiya have included this feature which will, for some modellers obviate the need to wrestle with Milliput. That said, through sheer necessity I've become (IMHO) moderately adept at making my own eg Tamiya's ancient M41, the M47 - obviously - and even a mantlet cover on a What-If MBT 70. All it took was a small amount of courage, application of Milliput (or similar), and some careful forming using cocktail sticks and paintbrush handles. trim carefully and job more or less done.
However, as I say, at least Tamiya and Takom for that matter,. have made an effort.
These are seriously good times to be modellers are they not?!
Brian
jphillips
Joined: February 25, 2007
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Posted: Sunday, February 02, 2020 - 06:09 AM UTC
Anyone know, what was the first tank to be used by the Bundeswehr? Was it the M-47? I know the Bundesgrenzschutz had Saladin armored cars.
JPTRR
Managing Editor#051
Joined: December 21, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, February 02, 2020 - 06:49 AM UTC
Note on the display that it states "Italeri New Parts" and "Tamiya accessories." I am interested. I've been carrying the 1980s Italeri M-47 around for decades.
Here's a link tothe Italerimodel being built by an Italian army tanker: https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/194103&page=1
Quoted Text
Any enhancement to what is the basic Italeri kit (which is actually very good indeed) is, I feel, to be commended.
Here's a link tothe Italerimodel being built by an Italian army tanker: https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/194103&page=1
barkingdigger
Associate Editor#013
Joined: June 20, 2008
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Posted: Sunday, February 02, 2020 - 06:54 AM UTC
Hi Brian, great times indeed! (I agree it's better than nothing...)
jphillips, as far as I recall the first BW tanks were M41 (recon/tank hunting) and M47, acquired starting 1956. THe M48 came a year or so later, and then their own Leopard 1 in 1965. They used a range of other AFVs too, including the M42 AA tank, US half-tracks, and French APCS.
Fred, the Italeri M47 was one of their best - it still holds its ground against the recent Takom offering! But there's always room for improvement.
jphillips, as far as I recall the first BW tanks were M41 (recon/tank hunting) and M47, acquired starting 1956. THe M48 came a year or so later, and then their own Leopard 1 in 1965. They used a range of other AFVs too, including the M42 AA tank, US half-tracks, and French APCS.
Fred, the Italeri M47 was one of their best - it still holds its ground against the recent Takom offering! But there's always room for improvement.
BootsDMS
Joined: February 08, 2012
KitMaker: 978 posts
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Posted: Sunday, February 02, 2020 - 07:00 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Anyone know, what was the first tank to be used by the Bundeswehr? Was it the M-47? I know the Bundesgrenzschutz had Saladin armored cars.
I'm no Bundeswehr expert but am a keen modeller of German equipments during the Cold War; M41s and M47s were issued to the new German Army in 1956 followed by M48A1s in 1957. M48A2s followed in around 1959 (I think) by the A2 version. The M48s went on to be modified with the British 105mm gun and served on until 1979 when it was replaced by Leopard 2.
Of course the Leopard tank was being developed as the US tanks were introduced and entered service (again I think - away from my references at the moment) around 1965.
The Bundesgrenschutz did indeed have the Saladin, identified as Sonderwagen III; I have a spare one in my stash which I will tackle one day not least as the colour scheme should prove suitably interesting on the display tables.
'Hope this helps or even provides a modicum of inspiration(!)
Brian
BootsDMS
Joined: February 08, 2012
KitMaker: 978 posts
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Posted: Sunday, February 02, 2020 - 07:02 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextAnyone know, what was the first tank to be used by the Bundeswehr? Was it the M-47? I know the Bundesgrenzschutz had Saladin armored cars.
I'm no Bundeswehr expert but am a keen modeller of German equipments during the Cold War; M41s and M47s were issued to the new German Army in 1956 followed by M48A1s in 1957. M48A2s followed in around 1959 (I think) by the A2 version. The M48s went on to be modified with the British 105mm gun and served on until 1979 when it was replaced by Leopard 2.
Of course the Leopard tank was being developed as the US tanks were introduced and entered service (again I think - away from my references at the moment) around 1965.
The Bundesgrenschutz did indeed have the Saladin, identified as Sonderwagen III; I have a spare one in my stash which I will tackle one day not least as the colour scheme should prove suitably interesting on the display tables.
'Hope this helps or even provides a modicum of inspiration(!)
Brian
Aaargh! Pipped to the post by Tom!
barkingdigger
Associate Editor#013
Joined: June 20, 2008
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Posted: Sunday, February 02, 2020 - 08:06 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Aaargh! Pipped to the post by Tom!
Yeah, but I don't have a nifty Saladin in the offing! Should look good - remember to post it on Armorama when you get it done...
Garrand
Joined: October 27, 2009
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Posted: Monday, February 03, 2020 - 02:23 AM UTC
Well this kit shot up to the top of my list... I had been wanting to do a BW M47 for a few years now (I have the Italeri issue of the kit with a DEF upgrade set, planning on a Suez Crisis French machine). The clincher is that it comes with a figure!
Damon.
Damon.
mmeier
Joined: October 22, 2008
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Posted: Monday, February 03, 2020 - 03:20 AM UTC
Actually the M48A2GA2 (M48 with 105mm canon and Leopard 1 cupola) remained in service to the end of the cold war. Germany had a "two part" army the Feldheer (That got the latest equipment and would have been TacNuked) and the Territorial Army (that had older equipment and would have been attacked by nerv gas). The later was a combination of active units, cadre units and those in deep reserve.
TerHer Units like the brigade 53 at Düren had the M48A2GA2 in their active (Tank batallion 533, 5th company Jägerbatallion 531) units as of 1988
TerHer Units like the brigade 53 at Düren had the M48A2GA2 in their active (Tank batallion 533, 5th company Jägerbatallion 531) units as of 1988
ptruhe
Joined: March 05, 2003
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Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 - 01:06 PM UTC
An early Bundesgrenzschutz unit had the M-47 before it got folded into the regular Bundeswehr.
HermannB
Joined: October 14, 2008
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Posted: Tuesday, February 04, 2020 - 05:10 PM UTC
Quoted Text
An early Bundesgrenzschutz unit had the M-47 before it got folded into the regular Bundeswehr.
Have to object here. Bundesgrenzschutz (Federal Border Protction) never had tanks. Bundesgrenzschutz (BGS) was founded in 1949. They had at that time M8 Armored cars and Saladin. M8 got there 37mm gun removed and a 20mm gun attached instead. Since BGS was a federal police, the vehicles were named Geschützter Sonderwagen SW instead of Panzerwagen. BGS units provided the nucleus for Bundeswehr in 1956.
ptruhe
Joined: March 05, 2003
KitMaker: 2,092 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 02:08 AM UTC
HermannB,
I read a little German but this is where I got the information.
https://www.beim-alten-bgs.de/Zu_den_Kameradenseiten/35_Vom_BGS_1954-56_zum_PzBtl_2/35_vom_bgs_1954-56_zum_pzbtl_2.html
https://www.beim-alten-bgs.de/Zu_den_Kameradenseiten/35_Vom_BGS_1954-56_zum_PzBtl_2/BGS_II_GSG6/bgs_ii_gsg6.html
Paul
I read a little German but this is where I got the information.
https://www.beim-alten-bgs.de/Zu_den_Kameradenseiten/35_Vom_BGS_1954-56_zum_PzBtl_2/35_vom_bgs_1954-56_zum_pzbtl_2.html
https://www.beim-alten-bgs.de/Zu_den_Kameradenseiten/35_Vom_BGS_1954-56_zum_PzBtl_2/BGS_II_GSG6/bgs_ii_gsg6.html
Paul
ptruhe
Joined: March 05, 2003
KitMaker: 2,092 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 04:43 AM UTC
There are some good BW M-47 pics, including white painted for snow in these galleries. Look for the older entries within the PzBtl units.
https://panzergrenadierbrigade17.de/gallery/
https://panzerbrigade18.de/gallery/
https://panzergrenadierbrigade17.de/gallery/
https://panzerbrigade18.de/gallery/
vettejack
Joined: November 23, 2012
KitMaker: 1,277 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 07:05 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Brian, great times indeed! (I agree it's better than nothing...)
jphillips, as far as I recall the first BW tanks were M41 (recon/tank hunting) and M47, acquired starting 1956. THe M48 came a year or so later, and then their own Leopard 1 in 1965. They used a range of other AFVs too, including the M42 AA tank, US half-tracks, and French APCS.
Fred, the Italeri M47 was one of their best - it still holds its ground against the recent Takom offering! But there's always room for improvement.
Agree...the Italeri M47 is right up there to kits that stand the test of time. I believe I'll stick with my 4 builds of 3 Italeri M47, and a frankenstein Testors/Takom M47E2. As far as the mantlet cover, I consider DEF Models (DK35006) the best so far...resin and PE...and dresses up the M47 to the 9's! Now, if Tamiya ever produces a clean sheet M47, then I'd might consider one!
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