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M1 shoots another M1 at Ft. Bliss
Kenaicop
#384
Joined: August 23, 2005
KitMaker: 1,426 posts
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Posted: Friday, July 24, 2020 - 06:30 AM UTC
Invincible
Joined: May 03, 2017
KitMaker: 148 posts
Armorama: 122 posts
Posted: Friday, July 24, 2020 - 06:37 AM UTC
Whoops! Good to hear that there was only one injury though, could have been much worse
Scarred
Joined: March 11, 2016
KitMaker: 1,792 posts
Armorama: 1,186 posts
Posted: Friday, July 24, 2020 - 06:50 AM UTC
Didn't that also happen at Grafenwoehr back in the 80's? I seem to remember one of the crew was killed. We caught it as flash traffic in Berlin.
Kenaicop
#384
Joined: August 23, 2005
KitMaker: 1,426 posts
Armorama: 1,316 posts
Posted: Friday, July 24, 2020 - 07:09 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Didn't that happen at Grafenwoehr back in the 80's? I seem to remember one of the crew was killed. We caught it as flash traffic in Berlin.
I think that one was intentional, but could be different incident??
Scarred
Joined: March 11, 2016
KitMaker: 1,792 posts
Armorama: 1,186 posts
Posted: Friday, July 24, 2020 - 07:17 AM UTC
It was a night fire accident and I remember because it raised a lot of controversy about how under armored the Bradley was so it would be able to keep up with the M1.
18Bravo
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 7,219 posts
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Posted: Friday, July 24, 2020 - 07:36 AM UTC
They asked to report grammatical errors. Sorry - not enough time left in my day.
joepanzer
Joined: January 21, 2004
KitMaker: 803 posts
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Posted: Friday, July 24, 2020 - 09:02 AM UTC
Who wrote that garbage?
It was a Bradley that got shot in Germany in the 80s. The heat signature looked just like a Stationary Tank target was the reason given. The Driver was killed.
I remember seeing our gunner light up the road wheels of the tank next to us with coax when we were training for CAT in 87.
I also remember having to DQ our Bn Cdr for firing his .50 cal when it was elevated. Problem is, it was a night engagement and table VIII had no .50 cal at night.
Craziness happens all the time.
It was a Bradley that got shot in Germany in the 80s. The heat signature looked just like a Stationary Tank target was the reason given. The Driver was killed.
I remember seeing our gunner light up the road wheels of the tank next to us with coax when we were training for CAT in 87.
I also remember having to DQ our Bn Cdr for firing his .50 cal when it was elevated. Problem is, it was a night engagement and table VIII had no .50 cal at night.
Craziness happens all the time.
Scarred
Joined: March 11, 2016
KitMaker: 1,792 posts
Armorama: 1,186 posts
Posted: Friday, July 24, 2020 - 02:55 PM UTC
When I got to Ft. Lewis the first time my CO found out I built models. We only had the army flash cards to train for silhouettes of tanks and apcs. My CO asked me to build models so he could use them for training. One of the platoons in my unit was a surveillance platoon that used low light optics and TOW sights, ground radar and senors to observe enemy targets, our platoon just used Steiners and night vision goggles, PVS 5's, to watch for targets while we hunted them using their signals. The old army flash cards weren't that good and a lot of soldiers had issues identifying friend or foe let alone what it was. So I went to the hobby shop down on S. Tacoma Way, American Eagles I believe, bought Tamiya's M1, M60, T-62, M113, Dragons T-72 and knocked them together in a weekend. We put them out in a field and let the soldiers look at them thru bino's and try to ID them. It didn't go well. But after a few hours everyone could ID them correctly. We looked at them head on, from the side, rear, 3/4 view. Our battalion CO got wind of it and sent every officer out to train with them. It improved target ID and everyone was more confident in ID'ing friendly or not. This was back in the late 80's, and I'd add to the list including helos as other kits came out and they were kept in the CO's office. I'm sure they have better ID training aids now. Or maybe not.
18Bravo
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 7,219 posts
Armorama: 6,097 posts
Posted: Friday, July 24, 2020 - 03:17 PM UTC
Interesting. I did something very similar in Berlin except there were obviously far fewer kits back then. I also threw in range estimation for good measure, which, when you know the scale of the model is 1/35, can be very precisely tested.
panamadan
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 1,513 posts
Armorama: 1,449 posts
Posted: Friday, July 24, 2020 - 03:26 PM UTC
When I was at Stewart we had a tank shoot the berm of the tank in the next lane (we ran two at a time-they alternated).
Long story short no one was relieved which is quite surprising.
Long story short no one was relieved which is quite surprising.
Scarred
Joined: March 11, 2016
KitMaker: 1,792 posts
Armorama: 1,186 posts
Posted: Friday, July 24, 2020 - 04:51 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Interesting. I did something very similar in Berlin except there were obviously far fewer kits back then. I also threw in range estimation for good measure, which, when you know the scale of the model is 1/35, can be very precisely tested.
Since we were an intel unit we needed to be accurate in our reporting. Were they T-72s or 80's? Or surveillance platoon had this massive low light telescope and the case filled the entire back end of a M966 humvee barely leaving room for it's crew. Most of their personal gear was carried in another humvee. They had to be accurate in what they were reporting so being able to put a T-62, T-72 and T-80 side by side so they could see the differences made a difference. Plus my CO and the platoon leaders all chipped in to get the kits so I got to build models with someone elses money.
chnoone
Joined: January 01, 2009
KitMaker: 1,036 posts
Armorama: 1,033 posts
Posted: Friday, July 24, 2020 - 07:06 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextDidn't that happen at Grafenwoehr back in the 80's? I seem to remember one of the crew was killed. We caught it as flash traffic in Berlin.
I think that one was intentional, but could be different incident??
.... yes there was a M60 intentionally shooting the M60 in front of it .... murder charges ... court martial .... the whole lot. Turns out one GI didn't like his superior .....I believe it was in the mid 80'ties but not sure it happened in Grafenwöhr. I also recall an M60 rampaging through Frankfurt City .... drove off a bridge committing suicide around the same time.
Cheers
Christopher
joepanzer
Joined: January 21, 2004
KitMaker: 803 posts
Armorama: 740 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 25, 2020 - 12:51 AM UTC
I don't know if this one is true or not, but I recall a story of an 120mm afcap getting stuck in the breech, the loader put the round he was holding on the floor to clear it. When he was clearing the deflector, the afcap landed on the round on the turret floor, and the combustible casing caught fire. Instead of notifying the crew, he bailed. The way the story went is the Gunner died, the TC got burned up from the waist down and died, the driver was OK, and the Loader got discharged.
Again, don't know if this is "Urban Legend" or not.
Again, don't know if this is "Urban Legend" or not.
18Bravo
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 7,219 posts
Armorama: 6,097 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 25, 2020 - 02:42 AM UTC
Maybe we need a new thread entitled "Military Mishaps."
It could include:
Antenna breaks free from clamp, hits overhead catenary wire, electrocutes M60 crew.
Crew member drops steel spanner on battery in M60, resulting short sets off ammo, kills several
Walnut shells bring down [auto-censored]hook
SF soldier fires M203 against wooden fence, destroys tube (I was there for that)
SF trooper downs Huey with M203 training round (knew him)
Fort Carson Soldiers dies after M2 .50 goes off in back of HMMWV bed, hitting him in hip
Soldier loses hand after using .50 cal round as hammer
Air Force Jumpmaster dies after reserve chute deploys in plane
And sadly the list goes on and on...
It could include:
Antenna breaks free from clamp, hits overhead catenary wire, electrocutes M60 crew.
Crew member drops steel spanner on battery in M60, resulting short sets off ammo, kills several
Walnut shells bring down [auto-censored]hook
SF soldier fires M203 against wooden fence, destroys tube (I was there for that)
SF trooper downs Huey with M203 training round (knew him)
Fort Carson Soldiers dies after M2 .50 goes off in back of HMMWV bed, hitting him in hip
Soldier loses hand after using .50 cal round as hammer
Air Force Jumpmaster dies after reserve chute deploys in plane
And sadly the list goes on and on...
Removed by original poster on 07/25/20 - 14:43:25 (GMT).
Removed by original poster on 07/25/20 - 14:43:49 (GMT).
chnoone
Joined: January 01, 2009
KitMaker: 1,036 posts
Armorama: 1,033 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 25, 2020 - 03:07 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextQuoted TextDidn't that happen at Grafenwoehr back in the 80's? I seem to remember one of the crew was killed. We caught it as flash traffic in Berlin.
I think that one was intentional, but could be different incident??
.... yes there was a M60 intentionally shooting the M60 in front of it .... murder charges ... court martial .... the whole lot. Turns out one GI didn't like his superior .....I believe it was in the mid 80'ties but not sure it happened in Grafenwöhr. I also recall an M60 rampaging through Frankfurt City .... drove off a bridge committing suicide around the same time.
Cheers
Christopher
Correction: it was in Mannheim https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/8bkxgx/mannheim_germany_1982_a_floating_achilles_lifts/
Scarred
Joined: March 11, 2016
KitMaker: 1,792 posts
Armorama: 1,186 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 25, 2020 - 03:13 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextQuoted TextQuoted TextDidn't that happen at Grafenwoehr back in the 80's? I seem to remember one of the crew was killed. We caught it as flash traffic in Berlin.
I think that one was intentional, but could be different incident??
.... yes there was a M60 intentionally shooting the M60 in front of it .... murder charges ... court martial .... the whole lot. Turns out one GI didn't like his superior .....I believe it was in the mid 80'ties but not sure it happened in Grafenwöhr. I also recall an M60 rampaging through Frankfurt City .... drove off a bridge committing suicide around the same time.
Cheers
Christopher
Correction: it was in Mannheim https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/8bkxgx/mannheim_germany_1982_a_floating_achilles_lifts/
That would make an interesting diorama.
chnoone
Joined: January 01, 2009
KitMaker: 1,036 posts
Armorama: 1,033 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 25, 2020 - 03:31 AM UTC
... found the other incident mentioned:
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1980/11/11/An-American-soldier-has-been-charged-with-two-counts/1412342766800/
Cheers
Christopher
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1980/11/11/An-American-soldier-has-been-charged-with-two-counts/1412342766800/
Cheers
Christopher
TankCarl
Joined: May 10, 2002
KitMaker: 3,581 posts
Armorama: 2,782 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 25, 2020 - 03:37 AM UTC
In Germany in the mid 70's I recall being told about a Sheridan backing off a firing line (probably 6-11 zeroing range), and shooting a round into the turret of another.Since, guns were supposed to be up and down range at all times.
Waldorf1955
Joined: April 05, 2018
KitMaker: 2 posts
Armorama: 1 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 25, 2020 - 03:37 AM UTC
It was in 1979 that 2 M551 Sheridans saw each other from opposite side of the impact zone which is the size of a postage stamp. One of the M551 shot the other thinking it was a target. Don't remember casualties.
BootsDMS
Joined: February 08, 2012
KitMaker: 978 posts
Armorama: 965 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 25, 2020 - 03:45 AM UTC
Certainly within the criteria of military mishaps I recall in the early 80s 2 British soldiers stole a FV 432 from their base in Osnabrueck one evening (I think) and went off joyriding down a railway track, only to meet an express train. Both were killed. I am assuming drink had been partaken.
18Bravo
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 7,219 posts
Armorama: 6,097 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 25, 2020 - 03:48 AM UTC
I partied with British tankers at Hildesheim who actually smuggled us off their base, so I have no problem believing that.
GulfWarrior
Campaigns AdministratorJoined: January 05, 2010
KitMaker: 1,051 posts
Armorama: 1,029 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 25, 2020 - 04:10 AM UTC
I used to LOVE translating for NATO exercises if the Canadians were gonna be there. It could be in the middle of a blizzard and the first tent that got set up was the beer tent! 
JmeDubya
Joined: July 25, 2013
KitMaker: 124 posts
Armorama: 124 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 25, 2020 - 04:33 AM UTC
JoePanzer, I remember that story of the base cap too. I think my DS told us about it at Knox in ‘90, had supposedly happened to an early M1A1...
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