Help me with this one please...

Well, if I'm not mistaken, Germans used RAL 7021 panzer gray color on their earlier tanks. But I'm not sure if that color was really THAT dark, it is almost black. I have seen many models with lighter shades, even in natural grey (very nice).
What color do you suggest, which is the most historically correct?

Well, Panzer gey is almost black but not quiet. The shades you refer to are nothing more than atempts to fade the paint. I usually start with a bottle of testors Panzer Grey and then lighten with white a few drops per coat the bring out the lighter colours and fade the paint!. HTH STUG

isn't it the same as German grey? I thought it was.

stug3 is right, it was very dark, but, given time in the field, all paint will fade...


So you can see the differences straight away...

Hi ya.. Panzer grey always seems dark to me too. but apparently thats how it is.. I for one Hate Panzer grey it is so.. boring.. anyways I use it because i like to try for historicly accurate colors.

Here is a pic of the horch 1a i'm currently working on... as u can see its panzer grey.. but i've been working to add what i call visual interest to it.



This was sprayed with Model Master panzer grey. u can lighten the base coat up to suit your preference.. I kinda wish i had gone a little lighter with it myself. then I made a chalk wash out of water and black pastel chalk, with a drop or so of dish soap to help it mix. I added the wash along the lines and details of the model then used a paper towel to wipe the excess off. it really made the details of this model stand out and change the plain panzer grey to a more visual image.

Hey Colt:
I'm almost positive that both the Pz II and the SdKfz 234/3 were museum repaints. They aren't examples of faded Dunkelgrau.

Here is the link to RAL: RAL

Be advised that despite their 'classic' line, the original RAL samples were lost decades ago.

At a reenactment all the Pzrgray vehicles had a distinct blue hue to them. What's up with that?

Also, check out The Tank Museum, Bovington, the restored Tiger 131. In Bovington's
Tiger 131 journal

http://www.tiger-tank.com/secure/journal27.htm

they discuss how they arrived at their colors.

True WWII colors will be forever a semi-ambuguous debate. Quality control was not always 100% (then or now). Much of what we 'know' of the hues are from the best guesses of historians who wrote of items in the 40's-70's, before serious research for us modelers started. Many based their color samples on whimsical guesstimates of museums, etc.

Now archeologists--is that proper in this sense--are seeking out these artifacts. They are attempting to find paint on wrecks that is protected from UV exposure, the elements, etc. They don't just sandblast away what is there, they take and analyse the paint.

And then guess...

Thanks for replies guys.

Well, I guess the color was really that dark...so be it. But I'll fade the panels just a bit and weathering will also help.

I believe such a dark paint will fade over time, specially in north Africa, but it would only fade in upper surfaces, and beign such a dark color the fading would be noticeable.

Take a look at this article
https://armorama.kitmaker.net//features/157
hope it helps

Gentlemen,
For a comparison of black to panzer gray check out David Byrden's website
http://byrden.com/panzers/
I have also read (and I can't remember where) that panzer gray would weather with a bluish cast..

PS If you want to learn about Tiger I's take a look around David's website

HTH

Yes Panzer grey was very dark and it did fade ,but one thing not mentioned yet and anyone else who has a black car will agree that dust and dirt would lighten the color very quickly and most pictures show a very dusty finish to all early panzers..

Rick

Another thing worth taking into account is the scale effect. Darker colours appear much darker on scale models, therefore it is wiser to slightly lighten them anyway to get the scale effect. Theres always a bit of artistic license also. A model painted darker than Delberts horch would not show detail easy and drybrush would stand out a lot more on it. Washes, etc, would be near invisible.
the same problems are true for olive drab. have you seen the article by steve zaloga in military modelling about olive drab? I have never seen a model that dark .... not even steve zaloga´s.
But I guess Im one of those that would prefer that a model looked appealing even if it was slightly wrong!