(pictures and links would be very much appreciated)
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WWII Guntrucks!
DRAGONSLAIN
Joined: February 22, 2004
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Posted: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 03:51 PM UTC
were there any guntrucks in WWII? I don't care if they are allied or axis, but Im interested in scratchbuilding one. If there are none then I will have to build a "what if?".........
(pictures and links would be very much appreciated)
(pictures and links would be very much appreciated)
ShermiesRule
Joined: December 11, 2003
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Posted: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 03:53 PM UTC
While not exactly a truck, the M16 Halftrack was probably one of the first examples of massive mobile .50cal firepower on the ground.
MrRoo
Joined: October 07, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 05:10 PM UTC
GMC-CCKW with quad 50's.
there were others that you may call a guntruck. These were called 'portee's' and were like a CMP 3 ton truck with a 2 or 6 pound AT gun on the rear.
Paul
Joined: August 21, 2003
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Posted: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 05:23 PM UTC
Don't know if it was during or after the war but there were GAZ-AA's with 4 mounted anti-aircraft Maxim guns. There's even a kit (#OA3503)
http://www.thetankmaster.com/english/oa/oa.asp
http://www.thetankmaster.com/english/oa/oa.asp
pascalbausset
Joined: February 05, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 05:51 PM UTC
Hi,
Gun truck is a truck with guns (normal) and with some armoured plates .
The GMC (without armor plates) from Mr Roo is only a truck transporting the Quad fifty, why normally the guns don't fire from the truck but from the ground ! And the Quad fifty is on a M20 trailer. In the pics ramps (to put the guns in the truck bed ) are missing.
For the UK portee I dont know if the gun can fire from the truck.
pascal:-H
Gun truck is a truck with guns (normal) and with some armoured plates .
The GMC (without armor plates) from Mr Roo is only a truck transporting the Quad fifty, why normally the guns don't fire from the truck but from the ground ! And the Quad fifty is on a M20 trailer. In the pics ramps (to put the guns in the truck bed ) are missing.
For the UK portee I dont know if the gun can fire from the truck.
pascal:-H
MrRoo
Joined: October 07, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 06:03 PM UTC
Quoted Text
The GMC (without armor plates) from Mr Roo is only a truck transporting the Quad fifty, why normally the guns don't fire from the truck but from the ground ! And the Quad fifty is on a M20 trailer. In the pics ramps (to put the guns in the truck bed ) are missing.
For the UK portee I dont know if the gun can fire from the truck.
WRONG! the GMC with the quad 50's had them mounted in the rear tray and they did fire from this position. Hense it is a guntruck as such.(NOTE: it has a steel deck not a wooden one as in the Tamiya GMC kit) and as a proper gun truck it has no ramps fitted to 'load' the gun!
The CMP, Bedford QL and Austin K's fired their AT guns from the rear of the truck so therefore could also be classed as guntrucks as well.
DRAGONSLAIN
Joined: February 22, 2004
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Posted: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 06:07 PM UTC
Thanks for the info and the pic. I guess a CCKW, what Im looking for is not a vietnam style guntruck, but just a truck with guns.lol #:-)
I guess a CCKW, what Im looking for is not a vietnam style guntruck, but just a truck with guns.lol #:-) MrRoo
Joined: October 07, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 06:08 PM UTC
there may be more pics in roos' truck archive, armor reference, under GMC
DaveCox
Joined: January 11, 2003
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Posted: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 06:09 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi,
Gun truck is a truck with guns (normal) and with some armoured plates .
The GMC (without armor plates) from Mr Roo is only a truck transporting the Quad fifty, why normally the guns don't fire from the truck but from the ground ! And the Quad fifty is on a M20 trailer. In the pics ramps (to put the guns in the truck bed ) are missing.
For the UK portee I dont know if the gun can fire from the truck.
pascal:-H
I would say that a gun-truck was any truck , armoured or not, that had been fitted with armament over the standard fitment. In the case of the GMC the guns were fired from the vehicle (no trailer wheels in that pic) and provided mobile AA cover for infantry units. The UK Portees could also fire the 2pdr & 6pdr guns from the truck - this ability was one of the design criteria.
MrRoo
Joined: October 07, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 06:10 PM UTC
another GMC had a 40mm bofers gun on the back as well. Masters products in France have a conversion kit for the Tamiya GMC kit
MrRoo
Joined: October 07, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 06:45 PM UTC
pascalbausset
Joined: February 05, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 07:20 PM UTC
Thanks for pics and informations, but not convinced for the use from GMC+quad fifty
Cheers.
pascal
Cheers.
pascal
MrRoo
Joined: October 07, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 11:05 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks for pics and informations, but not convinced for the use from GMC+quad fifty
Cheers.
pascal
you are welcome Pascal. There are more pics in the armor ref gallery.
as to you not been convinced about the use of the Quad 50's from the truck mount every one is entitled to their own opinions
regards
Cliff
PiotrS
Joined: December 05, 2003
KitMaker: 199 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 12:03 AM UTC
Hi!
Some time ago I got photo of Dodge beep with Quad .50 turret. My friend said that photo was taken just after war somewhere on the PTO . Did you heard anything about this vehicle and use in combat?
Piotr
Some time ago I got photo of Dodge beep with Quad .50 turret. My friend said that photo was taken just after war somewhere on the PTO . Did you heard anything about this vehicle and use in combat?
Piotr
Hollowpoint
Joined: January 24, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 12:23 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi!
Some time ago I got photo of Dodge beep with Quad .50 turret. My friend said that photo was taken just after war somewhere on the PTO . Did you heard anything about this vehicle and use in combat?
Piotr
It seems like I once saw a Dodge with a twin .50 turret on the back. Can't find the pic now.
There were lots of field-expedient mods built with parts on hand. In the Philippines, U.S. soldiers mated a 40mm Bofors with an M3 halftrack, creating the "M15 Special" -- this was not used as an AA gun; it was used on ground targets!
TreadHead
Joined: January 12, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 01:25 AM UTC
Howdy fellas,
Sweet 'M15 Special' there Hollowpoint!
This was discussed some time ago, and as I remember we were able to come up with at least 2 or 3 very interesting WW II era Guntrucks that were not either halftrack or duece based.
Wouldn't know how to find it now........
But, as I remember, they were cool pics.
Tread.
Sweet 'M15 Special' there Hollowpoint!
This was discussed some time ago, and as I remember we were able to come up with at least 2 or 3 very interesting WW II era Guntrucks that were not either halftrack or duece based.
Wouldn't know how to find it now........
But, as I remember, they were cool pics.
Tread.
pascalbausset
Joined: February 05, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 01:48 AM UTC
Quoted Text
[
as to you not been convinced about the use of the Quad 50's from the truck mount every one is entitled to their own opinions
regards
Cliff
Surely Cliff
greatbrit
Joined: May 14, 2003
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Posted: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 01:57 AM UTC
dont forget the bedford OYDs with oerlikon cannons used by the roayl navy for base defense
thats the AA kit of the vehicle
the deacon 6-pdr portee
a bedford truck with an armoured superstructure built around the gun
and the bedford 15cwt bofors portees, cant find a pic online but theres one in jean bouchery's 'british soldier, D-Day to VE day' vol 2
cheers
joe
thats the AA kit of the vehiclethe deacon 6-pdr portee
a bedford truck with an armoured superstructure built around the gun
and the bedford 15cwt bofors portees, cant find a pic online but theres one in jean bouchery's 'british soldier, D-Day to VE day' vol 2
cheers
joe
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 02:47 AM UTC
Quoted Text
It seems like I once saw a Dodge with a twin .50 turret on the back. Can't find the pic now.
There are 3 pics showing Dodge WC52 and WC63 fitted with Maxson M33 turret (2 x .50 cal. MG) in Jean-Michel Boniface's book "Dodge : sur les voies de la liberté" . According to the text, they were tested at Aberdeen in 1942-43. No production followed, as there were enough M16 Halftracks available at that time...
HTH
Frenchy
animal
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Posted: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 02:50 AM UTC
Well, I have been reading this forums and I have to side with Roo on this one. It is documented that these 2 1/2 tons as Roo has shown are in fact the first gun trucks. The Quads were fired from the rear bed and they were used as anti aircraft mobile gun placements. It is theses trucks that gave birth to the M-35 series quad trucks of the late 1950's and the Vietnam era trucks.
DaveCox
Joined: January 11, 2003
KitMaker: 4,307 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 02:56 AM UTC
Even my favourite CMPs were not exempt:
Ford F60 with 40mm Bofors
Chev. F15 with 20mm Polsten
There was also a twin 20mm polsten mount, whether it was a Maxon turret or just something similar I don't know.......
Ford F60 with 40mm Bofors
Chev. F15 with 20mm Polsten
There was also a twin 20mm polsten mount, whether it was a Maxon turret or just something similar I don't know.......
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 02:57 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks for pics and informations, but not convinced for the use from GMC+quad fifty
Hello Pascal
If you have an opportunity to look at "GMC : un camion de légende" by J.M.Boniface you can find a pic showing a French army (11° RAMa) CCKW 352 (Short wheel base) fitted with the Maxson Quad .50 turret : the mount is similar to the one of the M16, as the cargo bed is not long enough for the whole M55 trailer frame...
BTW there's another pic in the same book showing postwar French GMCs fitted with 4 x M151 20mm guns ("made in Germany") ...
HTH (et A+...)
Frenchy
pascalbausset
Joined: February 05, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 04:33 AM UTC
Quoted Text
, but not convinced for the use from GMC+quad fifty
Cheers.
pascal
I read one more time these posts. In the quote words i will say : but not convinced by the normal use from firing with Quad55 on board on GMC. But its surely possible.
On the pic (from Jagdtiger), we can see the ramp on the side of the GMC bed.
pascal PiotrS
Joined: December 05, 2003
KitMaker: 199 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 04:53 AM UTC
Finnaly I found this photo:
What you think about it?
What you think about it?
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
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Posted: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 06:22 AM UTC
Guys, it seems like you're having fun here debating the issue, but...
The term "guntruck" applies to Vietnam-era convoy escort vehicles only. As there is increasingly more and more information on them today than six years ago when I began researching and trying to popularize these particular vehicles with my Internet site - the term "guntruck" is now being applied liberally to any truck apparantly carrying a "gun" by curious modelers and interested persons.
Drives me bonkers to hear this sometimes...
The Anti-Aircraft CCKW quad-.50 armed trucks of WW II vintage are not "guntrucks" - they are "artillery trucks". They did get used throughout the '50's and gave inspiration to trucks converted during the Vietnam War into what is known as "guntrucks".
Even though trucks are again being converted into convoy escort vehicles akin to the Vietnam Gun Truck - their history is still being written and likely premature to lump them into the "guntruck" of the Vietnam War.
Debate Back On...
The term "guntruck" applies to Vietnam-era convoy escort vehicles only. As there is increasingly more and more information on them today than six years ago when I began researching and trying to popularize these particular vehicles with my Internet site - the term "guntruck" is now being applied liberally to any truck apparantly carrying a "gun" by curious modelers and interested persons.
Drives me bonkers to hear this sometimes...
The Anti-Aircraft CCKW quad-.50 armed trucks of WW II vintage are not "guntrucks" - they are "artillery trucks". They did get used throughout the '50's and gave inspiration to trucks converted during the Vietnam War into what is known as "guntrucks".
Even though trucks are again being converted into convoy escort vehicles akin to the Vietnam Gun Truck - their history is still being written and likely premature to lump them into the "guntruck" of the Vietnam War.
Debate Back On...
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