_GOTOBOTTOM
AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Swore Never to Use Another Airbrush!!
shonen_red
Visit this Community
Metro Manila, Philippines
Joined: February 20, 2003
KitMaker: 5,762 posts
Armorama: 2,283 posts
Posted: Friday, August 06, 2004 - 03:25 PM UTC
Earlier today, I tried using my Badger 175 Crescendo on my Gundam kit. For the 5th consecutive time, my AB failed on me. The paint is too thin and builds up at the edges. I tried following other's advice that it should be like milk but again, it failed. Now I swear I won't use another airbrush again!!!

I'm using Tamiya enamels BTW..
MrRoo
Visit this Community
Queensland, Australia
Joined: October 07, 2002
KitMaker: 3,856 posts
Armorama: 2,984 posts
Posted: Friday, August 06, 2004 - 04:54 PM UTC
Mate sounds like the paint is still to thin. Get some old plastic shopping bags and practice different mixes on them. This way you learn yourself what is right and works. Why a plastic bag? Cause it is made of the same stuff as your kit.

Another tip. Start spraying before your paint hits the surface of your model and stop after the area you wish to paint. This way you are removing the large drops and any thinner left in the AB from the last clean.

I think it a shame that you feel this way about your AB. I certainly am not an expert in doing the painting but plastic bags and trying different methods on them in the beginning lets me do my stuff in a reasonable way. But it will never fully replace the brush for me.

I also use humbrol enamels as I found Tamiyas enamels not to my liking.
PvtParts
Visit this Community
New Jersey, United States
Joined: June 18, 2003
KitMaker: 1,876 posts
Armorama: 1,120 posts
Posted: Friday, August 06, 2004 - 06:19 PM UTC
Like the good Roo says...I'm no expert either and have had my share of farg ups! I hang in , kick the ....., and keep on practicing. Trying different mixes along the way. I am getting better, so will you..hang in there Ralph!
HastyP
Visit this Community
Ontario, Canada
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 1,117 posts
Armorama: 468 posts
Posted: Friday, August 06, 2004 - 06:30 PM UTC
Never use enamels for anything other than brush painting or dry brushing.
Acrylics are the only way to fly for airbrushing. Go to this site and follow some of Brett Greens tips. He is the man.
http://www.scaleworkshop.com/workshop.htm

Hasty
Grumpyoldman
Staff MemberConsigliere
KITMAKER NETWORK
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: October 17, 2003
KitMaker: 15,338 posts
Armorama: 7,297 posts
Posted: Friday, August 06, 2004 - 06:34 PM UTC
Ralphie..... it's all practice, practice practice.
if the paint's too thin, lower the pressure......
the thinner the paint, the lower the pressure,

I spray inks, can't get any thinner than that, unless you spray just thinner..... :-)

Like Roo said, start off the model, then move the airbrush with out stopping on the model, continue spraying, and stop after you are off the model, try keeping the airbrush a constant distance from the model also. Too close and you will pool and splatter, and run for sure.
MrRoo
Visit this Community
Queensland, Australia
Joined: October 07, 2002
KitMaker: 3,856 posts
Armorama: 2,984 posts
Posted: Friday, August 06, 2004 - 06:35 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Never use enamels for anything other than brush painting or dry brushing.
Acrylics are the only way to fly for airbrushing.



sorry hasty you are wrong to use the word NEVER!

I do not AB acrylics because here they dry as they leave the AB. So they are hopeless here for ABing.

I use them for washes and a small amount of detailing by brush though. So enamels are not just good for drybrushing or brush painting
HastyP
Visit this Community
Ontario, Canada
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 1,117 posts
Armorama: 468 posts
Posted: Friday, August 06, 2004 - 06:41 PM UTC
Well I guess I should never say never.. oops said it again, but the are a never for me. I only use acrylics and they never dry too quick for me. I guess it is personnal choice.

HastyP
MrRoo
Visit this Community
Queensland, Australia
Joined: October 07, 2002
KitMaker: 3,856 posts
Armorama: 2,984 posts
Posted: Friday, August 06, 2004 - 06:45 PM UTC
May I suggest you look at the climate. Where you live in Canada is probably a cooler place for acrylics. When I lived in New Zealand, I too, never used anything else. But here in Queensland the climate is hot and dry most of the time so things dry real fast under normal conditions.

I have used both so I guess I am not biased but we all have our own favourites.
shonen_red
Visit this Community
Metro Manila, Philippines
Joined: February 20, 2003
KitMaker: 5,762 posts
Armorama: 2,283 posts
Posted: Friday, August 06, 2004 - 07:13 PM UTC
Thanks a lot guys for the encouragement. Ok, will give it a second try.
shonen_red
Visit this Community
Metro Manila, Philippines
Joined: February 20, 2003
KitMaker: 5,762 posts
Armorama: 2,283 posts
Posted: Friday, August 06, 2004 - 10:42 PM UTC
Here's what happened earlier:



I painted it first with flat black. As you can see, many irregular patterns and bleeding appeared.
viper29_ca
Visit this Community
New Brunswick, Canada
Joined: October 18, 2002
KitMaker: 2,247 posts
Armorama: 1,138 posts
Posted: Friday, August 06, 2004 - 11:54 PM UTC
How much are you thinning the Tamiya Enamels???? I have never used their enamels, as we can't get them here, but I know that you don't think enamels the same as acrylics.

Where acrylics would be close to 50/50 paint to thinner, you only need about 75/25 paint to thinner for enamels, 75/25, 80/20 give or take.

I used to use nothing but MM enamel which I still like, I just find that acrylics are easier to clean up as all you need is water, where as with enamels you have to keep thinners and stuff around to AB enamels....I still use them both, just prefer acrylics now for their ease of cleanup.

As far as never using enamels to AB, don't let the car community hear you say that, as that is what they use pretty much exclusivly, as enamels give alot better shine when polished out. Its hard to polish acrylic paints as they are too soft.

As far as acrylics drying too soon....I find it depends on what kind of acrylic paint you are using. I have had alot of trouble with MM Acrylics in either my Badger 200 or my Aztek 4709, may get 5mins of spraying before it dries up on the tip. However when I am spraying Tamiya Acrylics, I can spray all day and it never dries up on the tip. Different formula to the 2 paints, I don't know....I like the specialized colors of the MM Acrylic line.....but they are crap for ABing....I will personally stick with Tamiya.
Plasticbattle
#003
Visit this Community
Donegal, Ireland
Joined: May 14, 2002
KitMaker: 9,763 posts
Armorama: 7,444 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 12:07 AM UTC
Another thing that might have effected your result. I never had any success spraying enamels directly onto plastic when I only used them. I found they didnt bite right by airbrush. I started using Tamiya acrylics just for this, and now use them for most painting. I only use humbrol enamels now, for extra colour choice or if I run out of the appropriate tamiya acrylic.
Have you primed your kit first? This could be a another reason.
19k
Visit this Community
Wisconsin, United States
Joined: April 03, 2004
KitMaker: 489 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 12:07 AM UTC
Keep practicing. Also, remember, multiple light coats will go on much better than to attempt one heavy one.
MrRoo
Visit this Community
Queensland, Australia
Joined: October 07, 2002
KitMaker: 3,856 posts
Armorama: 2,984 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 06:03 AM UTC
looking at your picture it appears to me the 2nd coat was way too thin and because it had too much thinner in it it 'melted' the bottom coat which was probably not fully cured.
Marty
Visit this Community
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: June 16, 2002
KitMaker: 2,312 posts
Armorama: 1,054 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 07:17 AM UTC
I use Tamiya's acrylics exclusively for airbrushing. Like Scott (viper29_ca) said, 50/50 is the right mix. I have yet to have any problems. I do measure my paint and thinner when I mix them for my AB. I went out and bought a bunch of medicine droppers at my local pharmacy and that's what I use for making the mix...Ten drops of paint followed by 10 drops of thinner...ten drops of paint followed by 10 drops of...well you get the point. Painting with an airbrush is like baking. You need to measure your 'ingredients' correctly or your 'cake' will come out too runny or too dry.
shonen_red
Visit this Community
Metro Manila, Philippines
Joined: February 20, 2003
KitMaker: 5,762 posts
Armorama: 2,283 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 05:53 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Have you primed your kit first? This could be a another reason.



Not really primed. This was a very old kit. I was just reviving it. Before, I use Tamiya spray can to paint the kit.
Leopold
Visit this Community
Singapore / 新加坡
Joined: January 26, 2004
KitMaker: 446 posts
Armorama: 235 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 06:14 PM UTC
it looks v thinned mate...
well i used the AB for the 1st time and i m in love with it!!
it changed my model alot..the positive way!!
actually i think the effect will be better if you use aryclics
scoccia
Visit this Community
Milano, Italy
Joined: September 02, 2002
KitMaker: 2,606 posts
Armorama: 1,721 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 06:35 PM UTC
Shonen,
I'm with Roo when I says that you can use it for enamels too. I use 50% of the times acryls and 50% enamels through my airbrush.
What I can suggest is to have very light coats to avoid paint building up. If they do bot cover enough give them another pass later on. Another thing who can cause painting building up is a not proper setup of your airbrush or too much pressure if you spray at a very close distance from the model.
Once more the magic word is practice. I suffered of the same problems you get at the very beginning an I was seriusly tempted to put my airbrush in the closet and never use it again, but with a bit of practice I can tell that the finish I can get with teh airbrush it's almost impossible to get with a paintbrush...
Ciao
bilko
Visit this Community
Queensland, Australia
Joined: April 22, 2003
KitMaker: 584 posts
Armorama: 241 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 09:13 PM UTC

If you can't get plastic bags to practice on (we have billions of them in Australia) another thing you can use is plastic soft drink bottles.

But as everyone says - practice, practice.......... and still more practice. Also take a few notes of mixtures and pressures and the results.

I live in tropical Queensland - about 1000km North of Roo and I have also virtually given up on acrylics and use mainly Humbrol enamels.

Best of luck

Brian
propboy44256
Visit this Community
Ohio, United States
Joined: November 20, 2002
KitMaker: 1,038 posts
Armorama: 454 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 06:51 AM UTC
I agree..go the Acrylic Route..I use MM acryl. Never needs thinning..goes on nice..However, my airbrush and I are not on speaking terms since it fights me when making those luftwaffe color schemes.




Quoted Text

Never use enamels for anything other than brush painting or dry brushing.
Acrylics are the only way to fly for airbrushing. Go to this site and follow some of Brett Greens tips. He is the man.
http://www.scaleworkshop.com/workshop.htm

Hasty

 _GOTOTOP