Greetings guys!
I provide a model building service and I would appreciate some advise on building a diorama for one of my customers. It is supposed to depict the IDF's moved into Lebanon in 1982 to drive out terrorist in "Operation Peace for Galilee".
The diorama is supposed to depict IDF vehicals & troops in a debri filled Lebanese street along with bombed out 2 storey buildings .

Questions:
1) Can I use these 3 Verlinden diorama buildings to depict Lebanese looking buildings (if not then how can I modifiy them or ? ) :
i)Middle East Ruin
ii)Middle East or Afghanistan House Ruin
iii)Streets of Beirut
(Pictures linked below)

2) The Magach 6B was used during this operation right?
3) Was the M113 FITTER used there too?
4) Where can I get more pictures or referrences so I can build up the scene.

Many many thanks !

My Magach 6B at my website:
http://www.angrydogproductions.com/Magach%20&%20tank%20crew.JPG

http://www.verlinden-productions.com/vp_htm_0001_0400/vp0099.htm

http://www.verlinden-productions.com/vp_htm_0001_0400/vp0190.htm

http://www.verlinden-productions.com/vp_htm_1201_1600/vp1577.htm

1) I would say you could.

2) yes

3) yes

4) google...

Hey there. I was born and raised in Beirut, but left in 1982 just before that operation. I'd have to say that the first two building kits could pass for Lebanese buildings, but not the third one. The way the stairs go up on the side of the building like that. You might find houses like that in more rural areas. Beirut in mostly large city buildings.. and some old pooe neighberhoods with smaller 2 or 3 floor buildings.
And as far as I remember, I don't think the magach was used in that operation. But I can't be 100% sure. If you need things like signs in Arabic and stuff like that, let me know. Hope I was of some help to you.

Wow that was fast! Thanks very much Leeran

soo..can I also use those 3 buildings for dioramas depicting the wars Israel fought with the neighbouring countries (I hope I put that in correct manner?)

Thanks Hisham, so some artistic license to put there for the 3rd building!

Oops edited my post, YES please help with the Arabic Signs, etc!

Just let me know what you want to say in English, like if you want a sign for a bank or a garage or a grocery store etc.. and I'll send it to you in Arabic and you can work out the sizing on your PC.

Hello Hisham,

Do you have any idea if alot or little has changed in general to the areas of Lebanon since the 1982 war?
Was the fighting mainly in the city areas or rural or both?

(Singapore(concrete jungle) is perpetually under construction', always changing, Wherelse when I was working in the humanitarian line couple years back in Pakistan and Georgia(former Russia) for a couple years-nothing really changed drastically in those countries)

I'm still checking out for information and pics of the Israel-Labanon war, once I find some then I can figure out what kind of arabic words I'll need your help with. Right now, this is very new. And I have had no luck finding any aftermarket "street signs" for Lebanon. And the pics I've found so far of Lebanon are of resorts and beautiful places.

Thanks, any help you can give is really appreciated! :-)

By the way, I saw in some other forum regarding the lack of hobby resources over in Egypt. If you require any help for hobby paints and assessories,model kits, etc let me know, I'd be happy to help you out.
Most important is if you have paypal (or?)and if your local postal service is reliable.

Talk to you soon.
Nick

Actually Beirut has changed drastically since the war. Most of the destruction in Beirut was from the civil war days. The 82 war left most of the destruction in the south of Lebanon. Not many battles went on in 82 in Beirut itself. As I remember, the Israeli army surrounded Beirut and there was some bombing. But later an agreement was reached where the PLO guys left Lebanon fot Tunisia and then the Israeli army went into Beirut. I had left by that time but my parents were still there. I have some pics from the civil war days that could give you a feel for how the streets looked like ansd stuff. Why don't you give me your e-mail adr. and I'll send you some. I've also worked out a couple of signs which I saved as Device Independant Bitmap files and I wanted to see if they will open up correctly on your PC. If they do, then you just have to resize them and print them.. that's how I do it.
As for modelling resources, thank you for the offer. I've already ordered some models and paints and stuff. The problem is that postal services are really poor here and sometimes I have to wait for months before I get the shipment. And sometimes I just don't get it!! I'll just have to wait and see. But thanks for offering.
So give me your e-mail adr. and I'll send what I got. my adr. is [email protected].

Hisham I've sent you an email. Yes I'll totally appreciate those pics and signs you have!

I'll write again later, really gotto sleep now 215am over here!

just in case, here's my email :

[email protected]

Thanks again

Sorry. I just realised that I miss-spelled my adr. Here's the correct one.
[email protected]
Sorry about that.

Hey Nick,

actually the Magach 6B was introduced in the 90s.
during operation "peace for galilee", the Magach 6 tanks didnt have thermal sleeves, merkava tracks and drive sprockets, larger Gunner Primary Sight housing to accomdate the Gal FCS, chain and ball curtain at the rear of the turret, most of them didnt carry the smoke dischargers and all photos or videos I've seen from that period show Magach 6 tanks with m1919 0.3 MGs instead of the FN Mags but this doesnt mean that no magach carried Mags in that time.

Hisham, thanks I got your correct email, pictures and the 2 trial signs-opened them with no problem.

The diorama I'm building is 22inches by 16inches, the verlinden buildings layout is similar to Dan Dano Capuano's nicely done Surrender at Sidon diorama,

http://heavymetal.ww2mm.com/DCsurens/DCsurens.htm

The roadsigns he used are verlinden's 'Israeli Roadsigns'. Since Sidon is in Lebanon, shouldn't the signs be in Lebanese? If so, then here's where I need help with creating my own Lebanese roadsigns,etc with your help!

Hi Elad, thanks for your input, actually the tank I'm referring to is the Magach 6B Not the 6B GAL. You're right the 6B GAL is a much later version. But I do know(after tons of researching) that some Magachs recieved modifications to make them 6Bs during Operation Peace for Galilee, however as you said they did not have the Merkava tracks, drive sprockets, larger Gunner Primary Sight housing to accomdate the Gal FCS. But some had been fitted with the smoke discharges & thermal sleeve and 7.62s.
Heck I built the 6B version cause it was asked by a customer after he saw my Gulf war version US M60A3, little did I know venturing into IDF armor (my 1st IDF tank) required so much research especially in the case of this particular 6B version, otherwise I would have just gotten the aftermarket upgrade for Academy's (incomplete M60A3/Magach 6) and turn it into the 6B GAL!
Here's my 6B at my website
http://www.angrydogproductions.com/Magach%20&%20tank%20crew.JPG

Thank all of you for your imput, more input is always welcome!

heh, I just wanted to reply again with the same information to correct myself


anyway, I'm building the Italeri M60 Blazer kit (magach) and I wanted to know whether there were actually magachs with the thermal sleeve AND normal rubber block tracks at any time? the instructions in the kit tell me to do so, but I don't think there are any like those... anyone knows about that?

Hey Nick, I remember seeing this diorama a while back. Although very nicely done, it had some inaccuracies.. at least as far as I remember. One thing I'm sure of is that there were no SCUD's in the south of Lebanon. The PLO never had any. And the Syrian army, if they ever had any inside Lebanon, they would have kept them in the Beqa' valley close to their border. No way they would have had a SCUD in the Sidon area. Another thing are the slogans on the walls. Although some if the words are true Arabic words, the sentence as a whole doesn't have any real meaning. Finally, I think the Israeli signs were meant as signs put up by the Israeli army after they had gone in to guide the rest of the forces. That would be the only explanation of Israeli signs in that area.
Anyway, once you decide what signs you want, let me know and we'll work them out.

yeah, and the israeli signs didn't really make sense according to the enviornment

Leeran,

look at this link, if the date shown at the bottom of the picture is true than this tank is quite the same configuration as those shortly upgraded after Operation Peace for Galilee and can build into modern reserve vehicle- no Gal FCS, FN Mags, octal type rubber block tracks and American thermal sleeve like those installed on the RISE upgraded M60a3.


http://idfmodelling.free.fr/refview.php?name=ref_veh_pictures/magach6a/magach6a_03

just note that the Italeri M60 has a wrong mount for the TC machine gun, I have this kit under construction too.

Thanks for the heads up Hisham.

Leeran, I've alot of pics of my completed M60 (magach 6B) as well as those I saved from the internet, if you want them just email me.

Listen guys, the diorama I'm building is for the same guy that I built the Magach 6B (not GAL version), I used Academy's M60A1 Blazer, I found out that the kit pictured on that box cover is highly improbable, (I think Italeri's version has the same issues)

From what I've learned, Merkava tracks were part of the upgrades during other internal & external modifications including the squared turret basket,FCS,etc, making it the Magach 6B GAL.

I have so far not found any pictures of a Magach 6B with Merkava tracks but without full upgrades..FCS,etc. However there are 6B GALs still using the octagon tracks.
Complicated for us modelers, simply because Israeli military had always been upgrading their tank groups, and it isn't possible to do so at one go, so there's lots of variations!

Using Academy or Italeri's kits you can either backdate it to the 6B or earlier version (both no Merkava tracks)
OR if you want to build the GAL version, you need Legend's Magach 6B GAL conversion, which comes with the squared-turret basket, FCS detail,drive spockets,etc.




( you can either slavage those tracks from one of the other M60 kits or buy the AFV club individual tracks kit) Take a look at my tank:

http://www.angrydogproductions.com/Magach%20&%20tank%20crew.JPG

Short info:
Magach 6B = round turret basket / thermal sleeve / 7.62 mags x 2 / One .50 cal barrel mounted. Octagon tracks.

I believe the Browning machine guns belong to earlier than the 6B (maybe the 6)

I don't think that there was "actually Two .50 cals mounted on the barrel, like on the box pictures.

Alot of help with research was given to me by the good fellows at an earlier post:
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/29375&page=1

great article:
http://www.homestead.com/Shiryon/files/The_IDF_M60_Magach_6b_Gal.pdf

etc:
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/vehicles/tanks/magach/Magach.html

http://idfmodelling.free.fr/index.html

http://www.geocities.com/IDFARMOR22/walkMAG6b.htm

http://idfmodelling.free.fr/kit_magach6_07.html

http://www.patton-mania.com/IDF_Pattons/idf_pattons.html

http://www.track-link.net/blogs/15

THE 6Bs involved in 1982 were in transition. some as mentioned had no smoke dischargers or .50 cals over the main guns. an easy guide for th eperiod is as follows.

a M60a1 with no thermal sleeve the crews would be wearing older "bone dome helmets and using browning .30 cal mgs.

A M60a1 with IDF thermal sleeve wuld likely have crews wearing IDF style helmets and utilizing MAg licensed MAchin guns. these tank would aso have dual 10 round smoke dischargers and .50 CAl brownings over maingun operated by lanyard.

Teh latter version as depicted in my article with the GAl FCS( fire control sight ) didnt arrive until much later. The IDF tends to upgrade a battallions worth of vehicles at a time as money allows. IT would not be uncommon to see both types of tanks operating to gether with in the same brigade.

There were also very few M60a3s by 1982 and they retained there original Us thermal sleeves.

Jus as a note the shiryon site is now located at its own domain:

www.cheyl-shiryon.com

The homestead asddress will eventually disappear when the prepaid time runs out. feel free to ask for hebrew help as well for signs.

Lastly IDF fitter often miscalled pitter by troops was in service in 1982 as were other Mechanic based M113s.
verlinden did the original resin kit which has one interior ophoto which shows a central bench, at least one current pic shows to separate small benches. on eforward right side the second on the rear left side.

If you can find my article from Military modelcraft from you see the different types of mechanic M113s

shiryon

Custom Dioramics does some cool buildings that would fit what you are looking for

They have a Mid East tenement and an extension both of them together would give you a 5 story building!

I have the one and it is pretty good, the tenement.


Herky

WOW! thanks everyone for the wonderful information! it's just what I need! and that walkaround you posted, AngryDog, was just what I needed!

thanks!

Wouldn't have been abled to get all the research I needed for the Magach 6B so quickly if it weren't for the guys who responded over on the other enquiry I posted!

I just ordered from www.discountmodels.com for verlinden's 4 building sets (3 of which my customer wants for his diorama)
If anyone is interested here's item codes for VP's buildings that can be used for the Middle east (and 1 of which for Vietnam) 0099, 0111, 0190 and 1577.

I'll be ordering CustomDioramics Middle east type buildings and tenement as well later on too.. I have 2 of their diorama buildings & can't wait to start to them ..they look really great..

I'll be posting my Magach 6B article as well as my dioramas' build ups & pics & articles on my website & some over here, late next month when I get back from sailing to thailand .. drool guys heh heh :-)

I actually never thought I'll go into 1/35 stuff not even for building to sell (as I'm a Sci-Fi junky and 1/6 women models and then went on to 1/72 everything relatively modern), but since I started this build-up service, I have to admit that I really understand now how addictive this stuff is, Israeli tanks are so interesting & aggresive looking! Then there's the M1 Abrams which to me looks squared-end and featureless, but that's the point, its one solid looking block of simple kick as# power!

but I guess 1/35 is still too much detailing and too much space taking for living in an apartment not forgetting the rest of my stuff! So maybe one day I'll get down to building a huge diorama of my 1/72 tanks & troops.

in the meanwhile I'll just enjoy the experience of building for others boo hoo.

maybe I should get a regular job ?

Josh,
the dome boned helmets you are refering too are called VRC (simply because they came with the VRC radio comm. systems) and what you refer to as idf style are called "Jantex" helemts in the IDF.
if you look at photos of S'hots from the same period you'll see they have FN Mags and Jantex helmets.
also, the .50 cal. is not a good reference because older photos from the time my dad served in the armored corps show M-60s (with the old M-48 turret) with .50 cal. mounted and that was in the 70s so again, I wouldn't judge solely by these features.