Well i purchased the following to do my wash, no expense spared as i wanted to get it right
1 humbrol gloss varnish
1 humbrol matt varnish
1 tin of pure terpentine
1 38ml tube of burnt umber oil paint
Well i placed the gloss varnish on a old model and let dry, i then did a wash of 1 drop of the oil paint, with 10 drops of terps. Then the problem struck, i was not sure how to appl the wash, whether i cover the entire model in the wash or apply it just in the grooves and gaps where i want it to show through. In the end i decided to cover the enite model. Now heres comes the 2nd problem, as i was stirring the wash i was progressing a glittery effect started happening in the wash, as i looked at, it sparked and when i looked on my model, it looked like a very 70's disco ball abrams?
What should i do?...
Choice 1: give up wash's all together and just do weathering with pastel
Choice 2: Take sound advice from the posts following this post
Choice 3:Commit suicide
Choice 4:Have a pint
All help welcome in my 2nd hour of need
thanks all
AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Hosted by Darren Baker, Matthew Toms
Failed Wash attempt!
Whisky-Delta
Wales, United Kingdom
Joined: August 10, 2004
KitMaker: 152 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Joined: August 10, 2004
KitMaker: 152 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 12:28 AM UTC
Posted: Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 12:51 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Well i purchased the following to do my wash, no expense spared as i wanted to get it right
1 humbrol gloss varnish
1 humbrol matt varnish
1 tin of pure terpentine
1 38ml tube of burnt umber oil paint
People use future because its acrylic, so turps etc. dont affect it. When using humbrol, turps will lift it unless it is cured for about 72 hours to be safe. How long did you wait after gloss coating? I only use humbrol enamel thinner as I know it will not lift my previous painting. Turps come in different strengths, and I have experiemnted with quite a few things, but what works on one finish, lifts or destroys another. Humbrol thinner has the same effect all the time. It also dries quite matt when using oils.
I think most of shine is coming from the re-thinned gloss cote or not properly stirred matt coat. Unless it is 200% stirred and well mixed, it can shine. Is it the matt from the small tins or the square bottles? The stuff in the tin is rubbish IMO. The square bottle is the way to go. What brand of oil did you use. Cheap oils are a waste of money. The pigment isnt as fine and can be clumpy. Its worth it, to pay a little more for Windsor & Newton, etc as they last so long it will pay dividends over time. I use a brand called Lourves. Not as expensive but works well. I have another set of cheap oils and they are a disaster. I only use them on ground work. Hopefully this might fill in some blanks.
I dont think your kit is destroyed! A really good matt coat will tone all this down. When its matt it will be a lot easier to rectify it. Show a picture of it, and you will get more exact help.
Its also possible to lift all the paint again. There are loads of tips online here for that.
Choices 2 and 4 and 4 and 4 and 4 and 4 and 4 are recommended :-) :-) :-)
AJLaFleche
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: May 05, 2002
KitMaker: 8,074 posts
Armorama: 3,293 posts
Joined: May 05, 2002
KitMaker: 8,074 posts
Armorama: 3,293 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 01:35 AM UTC
Go for options 2 and 4 . Or 4 and 2. Or 4 , 2 , 4 . Then 4 again.
As Frank said, that gloss may not have been dry enough.
Also, you may have inadvertently cleaned your brush as you were mixing and working with the wash, releasing minute amounts of some previous metal paint that was in there.
Lastly, apply a wash only where you want it. Forget about this garbage of wiping it off. Dab small amounts along panel lines and at the base of projections and allow is to flow with capilary action. You can add large amounts to recessed grills to simulate the effect of there being dark space behinfd the grill. Drybrushing (uh oh, he's gonna need another pint or two ) will tone this down and blend it it.
Now, let's go get that pint.
As Frank said, that gloss may not have been dry enough.
Also, you may have inadvertently cleaned your brush as you were mixing and working with the wash, releasing minute amounts of some previous metal paint that was in there.
Lastly, apply a wash only where you want it. Forget about this garbage of wiping it off. Dab small amounts along panel lines and at the base of projections and allow is to flow with capilary action. You can add large amounts to recessed grills to simulate the effect of there being dark space behinfd the grill. Drybrushing (uh oh, he's gonna need another pint or two ) will tone this down and blend it it.
Now, let's go get that pint.
Easy_Co
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: September 11, 2002
KitMaker: 1,933 posts
Armorama: 985 posts
Joined: September 11, 2002
KitMaker: 1,933 posts
Armorama: 985 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 01:38 AM UTC
I prefer to use white spirit rather than turps I find it to oily.What i have found is if you apply a wash allover your vehicle it tones down the base coat which i prefer looks more 'used' I to would sugget No 2+4
Whisky-Delta
Wales, United Kingdom
Joined: August 10, 2004
KitMaker: 152 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Joined: August 10, 2004
KitMaker: 152 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 05:52 AM UTC
Wellldsdsadf.....i took udasou you r adivice wiv wdLaDLK choice 4, ASAL a lot og asj
Well thanks all, i feel a bit of an arse because i only let the gloss varnish dry for adleast 15 minutes, thought it wouldnt matter. Would this be the cause of the wash going sparkly?...I may have typed wrong but i did this wash on an old model that basicaly i dont care about (Luckly) so it does not matter about fixing the model, the paiting was awful anyway.
Well despite all the help i think i am not going to try wash's or weathering. After i typed this post i went away and put some pastels on my Kosovo style Tamiya Chally 2, looked good at first, heavily whetherd the canvas skirts, lower armour plates, and lightly weathered the rest of the tank with the same muddy look. I was pleased but then i looked at it and i realised i prefer my models looking clean and tidy all nice with nice paint, no chips or weathering. So i have spent the last 2 hours wipeing all the dust off. I love to look at proffesional models which at f1st, 2nd 3rd glance look real but i dont have the skill or patience to produce such high quality
Thanks all very much, such a great helpful community. In the near future once i have purchased and built my Tamiya M1A2 i shall do a post showing my M1A2, Chally2, Leopard A6, Chieftain and Merkeva and eventualy i shall give these advanced painting technioques another go.
Thx again
Well thanks all, i feel a bit of an arse because i only let the gloss varnish dry for adleast 15 minutes, thought it wouldnt matter. Would this be the cause of the wash going sparkly?...I may have typed wrong but i did this wash on an old model that basicaly i dont care about (Luckly) so it does not matter about fixing the model, the paiting was awful anyway.
Well despite all the help i think i am not going to try wash's or weathering. After i typed this post i went away and put some pastels on my Kosovo style Tamiya Chally 2, looked good at first, heavily whetherd the canvas skirts, lower armour plates, and lightly weathered the rest of the tank with the same muddy look. I was pleased but then i looked at it and i realised i prefer my models looking clean and tidy all nice with nice paint, no chips or weathering. So i have spent the last 2 hours wipeing all the dust off. I love to look at proffesional models which at f1st, 2nd 3rd glance look real but i dont have the skill or patience to produce such high quality
Thanks all very much, such a great helpful community. In the near future once i have purchased and built my Tamiya M1A2 i shall do a post showing my M1A2, Chally2, Leopard A6, Chieftain and Merkeva and eventualy i shall give these advanced painting technioques another go.
Thx again
Grumpyoldman
Consigliere
Florida, United States
Joined: October 17, 2003
KitMaker: 15,338 posts
Armorama: 7,297 posts
Joined: October 17, 2003
KitMaker: 15,338 posts
Armorama: 7,297 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 01:54 PM UTC
Well, if you used a brush that you used for metallics, you could come up with the sparkly effect rather easy. No matter how much you clean these, there is always a chance of a little metallics staying in the brush, and all that turps, sure brings it out.
In the old days, we would keep a separate set of brushes for metallics.
In the old days, we would keep a separate set of brushes for metallics.
Whisky-Delta
Wales, United Kingdom
Joined: August 10, 2004
KitMaker: 152 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Joined: August 10, 2004
KitMaker: 152 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 02:21 AM UTC
thanks dave, i think i did use a brush which i had also used for paiting "gun metal" and the rest of the model
Here is an update:
I have chosen another model which i do not care about, i have put on a coat of gloss varnish on the top part of the hull only at the moment, i shall let it dry over nite then make a wash of "burnt umber" and terps with a ratio of 10:1. I shall then dab an un used brush in the wash and then whipe it down the lines and grooves i wanted shodowed. Hopefully one last question, should the brush be dripping with the wash so the wash runs a lot on the model and then dab off the excess with a tissue, or should the brush barely have much wash on?
thanks for all your patience, i feel i am asking a lot of stupid questions and imposing on you lot!
Here is an update:
I have chosen another model which i do not care about, i have put on a coat of gloss varnish on the top part of the hull only at the moment, i shall let it dry over nite then make a wash of "burnt umber" and terps with a ratio of 10:1. I shall then dab an un used brush in the wash and then whipe it down the lines and grooves i wanted shodowed. Hopefully one last question, should the brush be dripping with the wash so the wash runs a lot on the model and then dab off the excess with a tissue, or should the brush barely have much wash on?
thanks for all your patience, i feel i am asking a lot of stupid questions and imposing on you lot!
Posted: Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 06:21 AM UTC
Quoted Text
but i dont have the skill or patience to produce such high quality
Not being rude, but this is cop out!
None of the quality work you see was made by guys who had just started out. You learnt more with this mistake, than somebody who never tries a new experiment. Keep experimenting on your old scrap vehicles... or even paint some scrap sprue and practise on that. You have tried and not liked what you saw, try again and again if needed to get the weathering that suits you. It will come, and get better each time.
If the gloss cote was only 15 minutes drying, and there was a possibility of metallic paint on your brush ... you see what caused your problem. As a rule I usually let things dry for 2 to 3 days. Thats why I have more than one project on the way at a time (read 12). You wont make that mistake again.
Keep at it. There is always help when you need it! Best of luck
Grumpyoldman
Consigliere
Florida, United States
Joined: October 17, 2003
KitMaker: 15,338 posts
Armorama: 7,297 posts
Joined: October 17, 2003
KitMaker: 15,338 posts
Armorama: 7,297 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 11:39 AM UTC
Try using Mineral spirits or white spirits, it's not as strong as turps. One of my favorite thinners for oil washes is good old Ronson lighter fluid. (that should get everyone lit up).... LOL
Don't suggest you use it around any flames though, as it really does catch fire easy.
Don't suggest you use it around any flames though, as it really does catch fire easy.
AJLaFleche
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: May 05, 2002
KitMaker: 8,074 posts
Armorama: 3,293 posts
Joined: May 05, 2002
KitMaker: 8,074 posts
Armorama: 3,293 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 08:25 PM UTC
Quoted Text
. Hopefully one last question, should the brush be dripping with the wash so the wash runs a lot on the model and then dab off the excess with a tissue, or should the brush barely have much wash on?
Use a small brush, absolutely no larger than a #1.
A 0 brush works well. Dip the brush lightly in the mixture and dab it at the intersction of panel lines. Watch how the liquid runs up the depression. Do the same with raised detail, dabbing a small amount at any sharp angles and the same effect wi happen.
I wouldn't tap dab off the excess, the tissue will soak up all your wash.