AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Hosted by Darren Baker, Matthew Toms
gravity feed and bottles.
godfather
Joined: June 26, 2002
KitMaker: 817 posts
Armorama: 465 posts
Posted: Monday, August 12, 2002 - 02:13 AM UTC
Do you get more control when using gravity feed cups as opposed to the resevour bottle?
TreadHead
Joined: January 12, 2002
KitMaker: 5,000 posts
Armorama: 2,868 posts
Posted: Monday, August 12, 2002 - 08:55 AM UTC
Padrino...IMHO the only use for a gravity feed cup is as a small, metal, paper weight. I believe somepeople like to use it when they are changing colours rapidly, but me, I'm too clumsy to manage one without being constantly worried about it spilling. 
But then that''s just me... #:-)
Tread.
For the record, I have several empty AB bottles just sitting on the shelf at arm's length, so if I need another colour quickly I just grab another bottle, that's all.
But then that''s just me... #:-)
Tread.
For the record, I have several empty AB bottles just sitting on the shelf at arm's length, so if I need another colour quickly I just grab another bottle, that's all.
Abrams101
Joined: July 18, 2002
KitMaker: 146 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Monday, August 12, 2002 - 09:12 AM UTC
Treadhead is right , some people can keep a steady hand even when painting somthing like . . . .an afv. but i cant , I like to go wild and if I used gravity feed I'd bee covered in paint .
I supose You could use them for small jobs were you just need a little colour, and they clean out quick so everthing has its pros and cons you just haver to find out what to use for what job. In other words give it a try and obtain your own oppinion.
I supose You could use them for small jobs were you just need a little colour, and they clean out quick so everthing has its pros and cons you just haver to find out what to use for what job. In other words give it a try and obtain your own oppinion.
screamingeagle
Joined: January 08, 2002
KitMaker: 1,027 posts
Armorama: 595 posts
Posted: Monday, August 12, 2002 - 10:56 PM UTC
Hi Padrino ......gravity feed are real nice.
Fast to clean - fantastic fine lines - and your able
to get in real close in some area's that a bottom feed bottle
would be obstructed by ( especially on model aircraft ).
As for spilling paint ........not a problem. The cup is
perfectly centered and you get excellent balance.
Plus most GF cups come with a secure lid.
- ralph
Fast to clean - fantastic fine lines - and your able
to get in real close in some area's that a bottom feed bottle
would be obstructed by ( especially on model aircraft ).
As for spilling paint ........not a problem. The cup is
perfectly centered and you get excellent balance.
Plus most GF cups come with a secure lid.
- ralph
TreadHead
Joined: January 12, 2002
KitMaker: 5,000 posts
Armorama: 2,868 posts
Posted: Monday, August 12, 2002 - 11:15 PM UTC
Ooooooh, that's what the lid was for........I was using it as a replacement piece for my Checker's set.
Tread. #:-)
Tread. #:-)
screamingeagle
Joined: January 08, 2002
KitMaker: 1,027 posts
Armorama: 595 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 - 12:56 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Ooooooh, that's what the lid was for........I was using it as a replacement piece for my Checker's set.
Tread. #:-)
Watch out for them King's....Tread ! ( lol )
- ralph
sgtsauer
#065
Joined: March 30, 2002
KitMaker: 2,605 posts
Armorama: 1,814 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 - 01:08 PM UTC
I too have had great success with gravity feed. Bottles in my opinion are too hard to clean. The GF cup is quick to clean, small and balances fine with the airbrush its self. Just my .02!
SS-74
Joined: May 13, 2002
KitMaker: 3,271 posts
Armorama: 2,388 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 - 05:16 PM UTC
I myself find gravity feed is much easier to use than the siphon bottles. But the last bottle fed one I used is a single action AB, so I cannot compare if double action bottle fed is better or worse than gravity feed ones. But the double action airbrush I am using now with gravity cup, I can do German ambush scheme freehand. So I think it's pretty good. And it saves a lot of paint.
(I am not waving, I am saluting Brits Style over, over, over, and over again with my left hand) :-)
(I am not waving, I am saluting Brits Style over, over, over, and over again with my left hand) :-) 
drewgimpy
Joined: January 24, 2002
KitMaker: 835 posts
Armorama: 388 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 - 02:41 PM UTC
I use gravity feed only myself. You should know that I completely suck at air brushing, but I find it better for a couple reasons. 1. waste less paint. 2. It seems to be out of the way in most cases while painting. 3. Faster. 4. easier to clean. There are probably more reasons why but that should do. 
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 05:37 AM UTC
The Grav-Feed cups make much better huts for aliens in my role-playing games...
I use bottles and several siphon lids. My colors are custom mixed and stay in their bottles - I just switch bottles to switch colors, and I have a single bottle with lacquer thinner for cleaning/"backflushing". You do not have to breakdown the needle for changing colors - master the "backflush" technique with your airbrush and you can quick-change with the best out there. I often go from white, to khaki, to three shades of OD Green, to black, and then red - all in one sitting and in less than 20 minutes. The airbrush never comes apart, but is cleaned everytime with backflushing and shooting clean lacquer thinner through it.
Gunnie
I use bottles and several siphon lids. My colors are custom mixed and stay in their bottles - I just switch bottles to switch colors, and I have a single bottle with lacquer thinner for cleaning/"backflushing". You do not have to breakdown the needle for changing colors - master the "backflush" technique with your airbrush and you can quick-change with the best out there. I often go from white, to khaki, to three shades of OD Green, to black, and then red - all in one sitting and in less than 20 minutes. The airbrush never comes apart, but is cleaned everytime with backflushing and shooting clean lacquer thinner through it.
Gunnie
Tin_Can
Joined: January 26, 2002
KitMaker: 1,560 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 06:16 AM UTC
Quoted Text
You do not have to breakdown the needle for changing colors - master the "backflush" technique with your airbrush and you can quick-change with the best out there. I often go from white, to khaki, to three shades of OD Green, to black, and then red - all in one sitting and in less than 20 minutes. The airbrush never comes apart, but is cleaned everytime with backflushing and shooting clean lacquer thinner through it.
Gunnie
Gunnie, good guidance...think you could elaborate more on exactly how you backflush?
Folgore
Joined: May 31, 2002
KitMaker: 1,109 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 06:19 AM UTC
Don't you find the fumes of lacquer thinner absolutely obnoxious? After spraying with that stuff, I start seeing double.
Nic
Nic
Kencelot
Joined: December 27, 2001
KitMaker: 4,268 posts
Armorama: 2,804 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 06:30 AM UTC
After I read this I kinda had an idea that some would ask what is "backflushing". Not to step on your toes Gunnie, just to help out a bit. 
Backflushing is a technique used to clean your airbrush. Backflushing as being a very important part of cleaning maintainance. The technique is performed as follows: Fill your paint cup with cleaner (hot water for water-based paints or the appropriate cleaner for paints requiring solvent). Spray the cleaner into a paint rag until you get a fairly clear spray. You then gently place pressure over the tip of the airbrush, blocking all air flow through the tip. When done properly, this causes the cleaner to bubble back up into the paint cup. Continue this process, alternating with spraying into your rag and backflushing until the cleaner runs clearly both ways. This is a pretty good guarantee that you have thoroughly cleaned the paint out of your brush. Use caution with this method on certain models (such as the Paasche VL), because the needle protrudes past the tip of the brush and is easily bent. One little tip...indeed tip, is to use that little tip that comes on the Testors thinner and cleaner bottles.
Backflushing is a technique used to clean your airbrush. Backflushing as being a very important part of cleaning maintainance. The technique is performed as follows: Fill your paint cup with cleaner (hot water for water-based paints or the appropriate cleaner for paints requiring solvent). Spray the cleaner into a paint rag until you get a fairly clear spray. You then gently place pressure over the tip of the airbrush, blocking all air flow through the tip. When done properly, this causes the cleaner to bubble back up into the paint cup. Continue this process, alternating with spraying into your rag and backflushing until the cleaner runs clearly both ways. This is a pretty good guarantee that you have thoroughly cleaned the paint out of your brush. Use caution with this method on certain models (such as the Paasche VL), because the needle protrudes past the tip of the brush and is easily bent. One little tip...indeed tip, is to use that little tip that comes on the Testors thinner and cleaner bottles.
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 06:36 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Gunnie, good guidance...think you could elaborate more on exactly how you backflush?
Sure, the only exotic "tool" I use in this process is the airbrush station sold for cleaning Aztec aribrushes. It has a little neck that you insert the airbrush into to spray solvents, with a filter to keep down the fumes. The jar catches your dirty thinner. I don't use the Aztec portion, but have a rubber ring adapter that allows any other brush to be used with it. You can get it through the MicroMark catalog / website for a small price. It's worth its weight in gold, however.
The second tool is a rag - any old rag will do. I have a lucky rag that suffices.
When finished spraying the color, and desiring to switch to the next, I unscrew the lid on my bottle and lift the airbrush (siphon cap still attached to the feed-neck) up out of the paint. Leave the siphon tube in the bottle. Place a part of the rag tightly over the spray tip of the airbrush and depress the trigger. What you're doing is forcing air back out of the nozzle assembly - and into the color bottle. You want to lift it out of the paint in the bottle so that you don't splash paint everywhere. You won't get a lot of paint back out of the airbrush - but it would be enough to ruin your clothes - or model if near enough to the accident.
I set the color bottle aside and then wipe off the remaining paint on the siphon tube with my rag. Put the cap back on the color bottle. Variation: you can get away with using only one siphon lid - just clean up the siphon tube with the rag before transferring it to the clean lacquer bottle. I do this a lot!
Then I grab a fresh bottle of clean lacquer thinner. Clean is a relative term here, because you're going to perform the same backflush step as above - but you can use it over and over again. Attach to the airbrush for painting. Insert the airbrush into the cleaning station and blow a good stream into it. Good stream = a few seconds - don't have to be thrifty.
Take the airbrush back out, rag back to the spray tip securely as before, and depress the trigger. What you want to have happen is the air flowing back through the airbrush head and into the bottle of lacquer thinner. Look for the bubbles in the bottle. If you're not getting bubbles - you're not capping off the spray tip tight enough with your rag and you'll have a wet finger tip. Repeat if that happens until you get the bubbles.
The backflush will blow out the paint from the head of the airbrush - and will clean off the spray tip too.
Remove the clean lacquer thinner bottle - insert another color bottle - and you're off to the races again!
Gunnie
TreadHead
Joined: January 12, 2002
KitMaker: 5,000 posts
Armorama: 2,868 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 06:39 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The Grav-Feed cups make much better huts for aliens in my role-playing games...
I use bottles and several siphon lids. My colors are custom mixed and stay in their bottles - I just switch bottles to switch colors, and I have a single bottle with lacquer thinner for cleaning/"backflushing". You do not have to breakdown the needle for changing colors - master the "backflush" technique with your airbrush and you can quick-change with the best out there. I often go from white, to khaki, to three shades of OD Green, to black, and then red - all in one sitting and in less than 20 minutes. The airbrush never comes apart, but is cleaned everytime with backflushing and shooting clean lacquer thinner through it.
Gunnie
I am completely in agreement, and on the same page as Gunnie here. This is almost precisely how I operate normally (except for the "20 minute" thing). I also shoot thinner through it every time I change bottles (hence no need to clean the brush all the time).
Now, where I lose the 'Gunnie-Meister' is the backflushing thingie.........sooooo, you been holding out on us Gunnie?.......technique wise?...........
Please enlighten us lowly gutter snipe..........
Tread.
I especially like the 'hut' thing.
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 06:40 AM UTC
Quoted Text
After I read this I kinda had an idea that some would ask what is "backflushing". Not to step on your toes Gunnie, just to help out a bit.
No problem - the more the merrier! You know - these used to be the things you learned in local model club meetings. Doesn't seem to be so anymore...
Gunnie
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 06:44 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextThe Grav-Feed cups make much better huts for aliens in my role-playing games...
I use bottles and several siphon lids. My colors are custom mixed and stay in their bottles - I just switch bottles to switch colors, and I have a single bottle with lacquer thinner for cleaning/"backflushing". You do not have to breakdown the needle for changing colors - master the "backflush" technique with your airbrush and you can quick-change with the best out there. I often go from white, to khaki, to three shades of OD Green, to black, and then red - all in one sitting and in less than 20 minutes. The airbrush never comes apart, but is cleaned everytime with backflushing and shooting clean lacquer thinner through it.
Gunnie
I am completely in agreement, and on the same page as Gunnie here. This is almost precisely how I operate normally (except for the "20 minute" thing). I also shoot thinner through it every time I change bottles (hence no need to clean the brush all the time).
Now, where I lose the 'Gunnie-Meister' is the backflushing thingie.........sooooo, you been holding out on us Gunnie?.......technique wise?...........
Please enlighten us lowly gutter snipe..........
Tread.
I especially like the 'hut' thing.
I wrote a long old, boring, missive above Tread
your post was faster than mine in getting to the Thread...Yeah - those left over Grav-Feeds make great huts for the "Skinnies" from the old Starship Troopers game...
Gunnie :-)
TreadHead
Joined: January 12, 2002
KitMaker: 5,000 posts
Armorama: 2,868 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 06:44 AM UTC
Ooh, I see you did.....Oops. GREAT suggestion my friend! Makes me wonder why I never thought of it myself..........you da man!
Thx,
Tread.
GREAT suggestion my friend! Makes me wonder why I never thought of it myself..........you da man!Thx,
Tread.
TreadHead
Joined: January 12, 2002
KitMaker: 5,000 posts
Armorama: 2,868 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 06:48 AM UTC
Seeeeeeeeeeee, these are the kinds of things that make Gunnie the BEST new recipient of the 'User of the Month' award! IMHO, Gunnie is one of those 'priceless' additions to Armorama, and should be recognized for it.
Tread.
Just my Farthing's worth.
Tread.
Just my Farthing's worth.
Tin_Can
Joined: January 26, 2002
KitMaker: 1,560 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 06:52 AM UTC
Gunnie, thanks for the info. I did that in a round about way but you have given me some more tips....Thanks!
drewgimpy
Joined: January 24, 2002
KitMaker: 835 posts
Armorama: 388 posts
Posted: Monday, August 19, 2002 - 08:31 AM UTC
I do the same thing with the testor cleaning station except for the backflushing part. I figured that if I was shooting clean liquid through the brush it must be clean. I test it on a piece of white computer paper to make sure there is no color coming through. If I do have clean liquid coming out should I still backflush? And if the answer is yes, what will it accomplish that hasn't been done by flushing it the normal way? BTW, I have the testors 470 with all the different nozzles.
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Monday, August 19, 2002 - 10:10 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I do the same thing with the testor cleaning station except for the backflushing part. I figured that if I was shooting clean liquid through the brush it must be clean. I test it on a piece of white computer paper to make sure there is no color coming through. If I do have clean liquid coming out should I still backflush? And if the answer is yes, what will it accomplish that hasn't been done by flushing it the normal way? BTW, I have the testors 470 with all the different nozzles.
Backflushing cleans the interior portions of the airbrush, without you having to disassemble it to get inside and clean it out. When I shot with the Testors airbrush (I did have one) I still backflushed to clean out remaining paint and thinner residue - even though it's a "sealed" airbrush. To each his own when using this type of airbrush...
Gunnie
SS-74
Joined: May 13, 2002
KitMaker: 3,271 posts
Armorama: 2,388 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 05:42 PM UTC
My Gunze Sanyo DA AB, I need to loose the nozzle a bit, then spray it, so there is no air come out at the tips, but instead, cleaning liquid mixed with air comes out from that little hole on the gravity feed cup, (I like doing it, feel like a whale is breathing or something #:-) , and also give my dog a good scare). Is this the same principle as back flushing?
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 11:51 PM UTC
Quoted Text
My Gunze Sanyo DA AB, I need to loose the nozzle a bit, then spray it, so there is no air come out at the tips, but instead, cleaning liquid mixed with air comes out from that little hole on the gravity feed cup, (I like doing it, feel like a whale is breathing or something #:-) , and also give my dog a good scare). Is this the same principle as back flushing?
Yep - it sure is a variation of Backflushing. Wish I could have seen the Dog when you did that
Gunnie
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