That then, changes things...he probably didn't to take it that far...that's a bit too morbid for me personally.

Jeff

I think it is a shame that any part of this piece was edited. From what I can tell it was done quite tastefully. Although this is a hobby, I think that many of us have a chance to elevate it to an art at times, and this diorama would qualify. Clearly, it is a story worth telling, and whether it be through an art museum or through our hobby, it is worth viewing.

Someone else mentioned here that what we model are machines of death, and I agree that often times this is overlooked. Terrible things are the end product sometimes, and people should understand that.

I am a little tired of all the "glory" that German subjects get when in fact they were fighting for one of the worst states in the history of this world, and so a little perspective in this regards is a good thing. What is depicted here was not rare. It was very common, especially on the Eastern Front.

I was going to throw my 2 cents in but SSgt1Shot sumed up my opinion exactly. No sense in repitition.

However Burik has a great point.



My hat goes off to the builder. Not only for the fortitute to build it, but also for his skills, and to the web master for the fortitude to host it.

The execution/death of innocents is something that has happened in all wars in the brutal history of mankind.
I think it unfair to highlight in particular the German people. The 20th century alone started with the Scorched Earth policy of Milnar in South Africa and the detainment of many innocents and minorities. If you look at WW2, the German people were targets for vicious crimes against humanity when the Allied forces struck back - I know a Bavarian lady (and work with her son) who lost both parents in the war and was one of a group of female children that had to flee the arriving Russian forces. The Russians were ruthless and felt no compassion; they eagerly raped and killed 5-7 year olds. Let's also not forget all the war crimes committed by various countries in the wars of the last 50 years.
We are truly a brutal species... shame on us...

I think this is a great piece of work also. The story is very dramatic and the modelling skills are up to the task of telling the story as well. It is indeed a story that needs to be told. This work would be excellent in any WW II or Holocaust museum. I would only find it objectional if it were used in a situation that glorified the Nazi politics, Einsatzgruppen and the Final Solution. This diorama depicts one of the major reasons we fought the war and more people need to remember that.

OMG some one agrees with me!

As Staff_Jim noted the entire diorama wasn't shown, why in the pit was people who had been shot already. I don't understand the censorship, you can pretty much watch people be shot live in real life on TV these days so why censor a diorama? Beats me?

Point being all facets of war should be repersented, the good, the bad and the ugly. It brings truth to the subject. for me I'll model the happier time as that is what I choose to remember. I'm sure there are those out there that understand what I'm saying, and some that do not.

I can understand the selection of shots shown on Armorama, however as it has been said a number of times, it happened. I praise this person for his choice in portraying an event that was widespread in the East and the true agenda of that regime. As a historical piece, it's darn good. And, as has been said, it's not another glorification of the Nazis.

My hat's off to this modeler.

I see not every member here cares about being respectful. While we are trying to criticize, some people are trying to make this a big big argument and a useless fight by posting web addresses that lie, and lie without proof. I protest the address posted. Some or most of the information can be correct, but that does not count if there are many other slanders included in the link.

Sorry for this, moderators, I tried to be respectful, but I had to reply to this. People have to think twice before posting, because they can hurt others, although they are told not to do so.

Really sorry...

Cagin.

People,

this topic makes me sad, very sad.... Not because of the subject at hand, but because of the number of reactions....

Let's be honest, we are a diorama forum on a modeling site.... each modeling related topic attracts what...10 to 15 replies or so, and whenever something "controversial" comes up 40+ reactions are posted...

It makes me sad that we seem to be more interested in discussing political or moral issues over discussing what this site is primarily here for....modeling related issues.

This is the second time this diorama comes up in a forum and it's the second time we all want to be heard about our views on this matter behind the diorama.

Why is it that we all want to repeat again what has already been said ?, Why do we all dive into a topic with the controversion in it's title.... I've met people in this topic that I have never have seen in a diorama topic before...why ?

Let's get back to business again guys...let's talk modeling again. Let's leave this thread for what it is and let's move on.

I'm not gonne close this topic as long as the content is "ok", but I rely on you all when I ask you to let it go !!

I ask you, let it be and let's talk modeling again !

arghh, i wish now i hadnt started this thread in first place.... i tried in beginning to set it on right track by asking "what do you this of this diorama"...not "tell me your opinions on the holocaust"
I am Sorry Danny, and Scott, this thread wouldve had you checking in on it every minute or so, i am sorry for the trouble.
cheers guys

No problem LWF... it happens very rarely, but sometimes in topics like these somebody asks "How did he paint those faces" and the topic turns around towards a discussion that does belong here... a discussion on modeling techniques. Call me stupid, but I have been hoping from the start that this turnaround would come.... I was wrong.

If we see a diorama, even how controversial it may be, we can always talk about it, but we should focus on the modeling aspects over here. There are plenty of other sites to discuss the moral and ethics behind something like a diorama.

So, does anybody have a clue how he did the figures ? Ever tried to outline parts of a figure like that ? I've tried and .... failed over and over again... my pencils are too thick, or my paint is too thin, but in both cases it looks more like painting an area than outlining a small part... any tips on this ?

I personally though his folaige was really well done, figures were excellent too!

LWF, Eagle... you guys are so right. Sorry for going off topic...

I think the sheer shock factor of the dio made us all forget to appreciate the model work & skill that has gone into it.

My opinion of the dio (not the theme/topic)

I love the groundwork. Any idea's on how this was achieved? Also the weathering on the vehicle is phenominal, even the number plate is rusted and spot the rusty ding on the front fender! The statue is really nice as well. Anyone know who makes it? The only think I can't tell is if there are any tyre tracks from the vehicles. Also the angles at which the vehicles are placed seem a bit unnatural, like they couldn't have been driven/riden into those positions, but were rather placed there... know what i mean? The positioning of the figures flows well and tells the story. I'm guessing they are finished in oils?

RR

I guess what it really comes down to is this: people have the right to produce such work, we the viewers have the right to , or not to view it. Everyone has their own opinion and are entitled to it. Thses are the facts that make the "free countries" so great, at least we can voice our opinion and enjoy our freedom of speech. Sung Ho Park achieved his goal, and that pleases me. He created a piece of art that not only tells an important story in history, but more importantly evoked emotion in all of us, good or bad. We all have to respect our freedoms, even if we don't like. Freedom is all to often taken for granted. I don't think I am saying anything new, but it feels good to share my opinion.

I regreted it when I started my fourm on the subject as well. I started the same way I just wanted to get peoples opinion, I wanted to know what people thought of the lesson it teaches us, not start a fight. Things like this should be able to be disscussed rationally. It isn't so much the subject, it is the importance of the message, and what we as the human race should learn from it. Thats what I get out of things like this. Wouldn't the world be a better place if people could be more tolerant of others and their beliefs? Mutual respect, the respect for life itself, life is a great gift.

:-) :-) :-) and by that i THINK you meant you really like the figures?
lol, please guys, no more comments on morality, i realize im no moderator, but as i said, i asked for opinions on the diorama to begin with.
not aimin at you Paul

Sorry that I contributed to make it an offtopic situation. This is my third message in this thread, and you can see that my first one was all about the model itself, not about anything else. Then something made me go off, because people had been warned about not to post provocative things, but some did not care about it and did what they wanted to do. I was sadly at the point where it aimed, together with some other friends here.
Sorry for that hard reaction, I could not hold myself. About the diorama? I already told my opinions. It is good to see a forgotton part of a war, even if it touches the senses deeply. It is nice to see civilian figures in a diorama (well, there are better stories to tell, but we can not have good stories all the time), the scene captures a mood and drifts you into that. All the colors of the poor civilians versus the military toughness and colors of the soldiers... You can almost feel the inside of the old man there, but I repeat: almost. I can not really imagine what that man feels... Touching story in a well-built diorama.

That is what I think.

Sorry again...

Cagin.

no need to apologize Cagin, lets just leave it at that everyone, no more hints about the argumeant, only model related comments from now on.
As i said i really like the foliage and groundwork, anyone know what some of the things he's used are?

well i think that since we re back in modelling i can dig in for a second post in the thread.
Well the modeller is by all means skilled, and has compiled a good tight scene , reasonably setted. His techinques is good concernig ground work, figures , though there are some flaws (like missing shadows or highlights , or some one stage deepshading in some headclothe of a woman) but in generall could get a good rate. His vehicles are also well made , i liked the motorbike a lot, but i think that the track has some exaggeration and inacuraccy in comparison with real car damage in the way that the damage is presented. Otherwise the colour choices are good and they suit the desired atmosphere.. Well thats it

Costas

No worries! The modeling was excellent and if people would look at his website they would see more clearly that he is a very skilled modelor. His skills should be recognized, it is sad that people are put off by what he created. He has a lot more to offer the hobby, but those are the risks you take when you create something like that.

The figures were good coversions. You can see the work he did when you look at the stock figures he used (some are stock). I was impressed by the manipulation of the figs as well as the creativity and skill it took to do it. I would like to see more companies producing more civilians, I think the companies are headed in the right direction by producing figures with coversion pieces included but need to take it a step further.

Didn't mean to preech, just wanted to say everyone is entitled to their opinion, and that should be respected good, bad, indifferent...

Theres a hilarious diorama on his website, i dunno where he got the idea :-) :-) :-) T34 in a ruined city street, with the crew climbing on top ofit as high as they can possibly get, because running towards them is a vast array of african animals :-) Zebras, Lions, Giraffes...now, at first i thought, well thats just silly, but good, BUT, now im wondering....Berlin wouldve had a zoo right, and i seriously doubt it was left totally intact, was it possible this ever happened? and if so, where are the animals now :-) have they bred? are there german giraffes hiding in the woods?

forgot to ask this previously, but where do you buy civilian figures? or do most (talented i should say :-) ) people sculpt them themselves?

Isn't the whole idea of history something that teaches us for the future, and although it's painful to see us (human kind) in our worst state, we should and have learned from our mistakes! Although I wouldn't (dont have the talent ) make a dio on this subject I don't mind seeing one.
No there are only girears, monkeers, snabras :-)

Bruce

LWF, what's the URL for that dio?

I agree with the model builder 100%. I think he did an excellant job of recreating an event that happened all to often in occupied Europe during those times.

Also, the thing with dios, is that I believe that people today in general are to busy to sit down and read about a subject or event that happened. But if you recreate that event or subject for them it is more easy to understand.

Much I think is the case with this dio. Kids today are for the most part oblivious to the tragic events that the "Nazi" war machine (I am not meaning "Nazis" or German people) rained down on the occupants of the countries that were occupied by German forces. But with articles of education much like this, people are more apt to understand it, versus a bunch of words on a page.

~Chip

My humble apologies, as my comments have offended, I have removed my post. Caanbash, the only link to the protested address is now in your post.

By sending me a PM as to your concerns I would have removed it earlier.

As I have stated before, I find Mr Park to be both a highly skilled and talented artist!