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L/F damage pics
pzkfwmk6
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: January 08, 2005
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Joined: January 08, 2005
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Posted: Friday, January 07, 2005 - 04:26 PM UTC
Hi folks, I'm hoping someone can help me. I'm looking for photos of panzerfaust or panzershreck damage to allied AFV's. Does anyone know where I can find some? Thanks for any help you can give, Ed.
ericadeane
Michigan, United States
Joined: October 28, 2002
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Joined: October 28, 2002
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Posted: Friday, January 07, 2005 - 05:34 PM UTC
I can't direct you to any pics online. Just know that the point of impact should depict two important features. First, a glancing blow by a panzerfaust or panzerschreck warhead onto an oblique angle would not allow it to damage or gouge the armor. It would glance off w/o much damage (if at all) to the target. You'd want to depict a hit onto a surface that's relatively square.
Secondly, for these weapons were hollow shaped charges that worked by blasting a directed gush of molten metal through the target's armor (like the American bazooka, British PIAT). The warhead's point of contact with the target would leave only a very small hole. I read where an American officer test fired a panzerfaust onto the frontal (thickest) part of a Tiger II's turret. The panzerfaust's molten stream fully penetrated the armor with a half-inch entry hole and about a 3/4 inch exit hole on the inner surface. The spewing of the molten metal inside must have been devastating. However, this may not depict well in a 1/35 model as everyone would ask "How'd that little hole disable that Sherman/Cromwell/Tiger??"
Kinetic warheads (armor piercing) work on the theory of punching a hole through based upon the velocity (and hardness) of the AP shell itself. That's why 88mm German KWK cannon or 17pdr Firefly cannon were effective. Lots of shell velocity (as compared to slow, rocket-powered or spring-powered (PIAT) weapons with shaped charge warheads).
Secondly, for these weapons were hollow shaped charges that worked by blasting a directed gush of molten metal through the target's armor (like the American bazooka, British PIAT). The warhead's point of contact with the target would leave only a very small hole. I read where an American officer test fired a panzerfaust onto the frontal (thickest) part of a Tiger II's turret. The panzerfaust's molten stream fully penetrated the armor with a half-inch entry hole and about a 3/4 inch exit hole on the inner surface. The spewing of the molten metal inside must have been devastating. However, this may not depict well in a 1/35 model as everyone would ask "How'd that little hole disable that Sherman/Cromwell/Tiger??"
Kinetic warheads (armor piercing) work on the theory of punching a hole through based upon the velocity (and hardness) of the AP shell itself. That's why 88mm German KWK cannon or 17pdr Firefly cannon were effective. Lots of shell velocity (as compared to slow, rocket-powered or spring-powered (PIAT) weapons with shaped charge warheads).
ShermiesRule
Michigan, United States
Joined: December 11, 2003
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Posted: Saturday, January 08, 2005 - 06:20 AM UTC
In Steve Zaloga's book The Sherman at War there are a few pics of such damage. As Roy pointed out it just looks like a small hole you can put a few fingers through. There were also some hits on the tracks and bogies which have blown them off the tank. The tank does not look like an internal explosion has ripped it apart even though there are at least 4 hits
Hope this helps
Hope this helps
inopia
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: December 29, 2004
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Joined: December 29, 2004
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Posted: Saturday, January 08, 2005 - 08:05 AM UTC
The links below (if they work..) show the effect of hollow charge
explosives on solid armour, not tanks granted but external and internal effects are comparable except for the fire risk. You have to consider that most Allied afv's had petrol fuel and ammo stored in every available nook and cranny and this meant that hits with chemical energy (HEAT or hollow charge..) rounds would often set fire to the vehicle, solid AP or kinetic energy rounds might penetrate the armour causing massive internal damage (to both machine and crew..) and again the forces involved might well set the tank alight but extent of damage is dependant on the location of the impact. The majority of "knocked out" tanks in photos with enough holes in them to pass as a swiss cheese have been in tank vs tank combat using solid AP shot ( no DU rounds in WW2...all the benifits of APFSDS and HEAT with added radioactivity...great javascript:PasteSmiley(':-?')
javascript:PasteSmiley(':-?') ) Detonation of ammo or fuel in the stricken tank is the real factor in the amount of damage caused..to the vehicle not the crew..
[url=http://www.fort-eben-emael.be/English/Frame1_English/frame1_engels.htm] [url=http://home.comcast.net/~efeifer/ebenemael.htm
explosives on solid armour, not tanks granted but external and internal effects are comparable except for the fire risk. You have to consider that most Allied afv's had petrol fuel and ammo stored in every available nook and cranny and this meant that hits with chemical energy (HEAT or hollow charge..) rounds would often set fire to the vehicle, solid AP or kinetic energy rounds might penetrate the armour causing massive internal damage (to both machine and crew..) and again the forces involved might well set the tank alight but extent of damage is dependant on the location of the impact. The majority of "knocked out" tanks in photos with enough holes in them to pass as a swiss cheese have been in tank vs tank combat using solid AP shot ( no DU rounds in WW2...all the benifits of APFSDS and HEAT with added radioactivity...great javascript:PasteSmiley(':-?')
javascript:PasteSmiley(':-?') ) Detonation of ammo or fuel in the stricken tank is the real factor in the amount of damage caused..to the vehicle not the crew..
[url=http://www.fort-eben-emael.be/English/Frame1_English/frame1_engels.htm] [url=http://home.comcast.net/~efeifer/ebenemael.htm
752ndTank
Connecticut, United States
Joined: August 03, 2003
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Joined: August 03, 2003
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Posted: Monday, January 17, 2005 - 01:31 AM UTC
The Panzerfaust just made a very small hole through the armor, but the effect was devastating on the inside due largely to spalling of the armor itself.
For a look at a non-penetrating Panzerfaust hit, see the last photo on this page of my website:
http://www.752ndtank.com/specialdgpage2.html
Bob
For a look at a non-penetrating Panzerfaust hit, see the last photo on this page of my website:
http://www.752ndtank.com/specialdgpage2.html
Bob