I apologize my post was a little off topic earlier (still curious about it though). If the new kit is passable I will likely buy one because like a lot here I like the vehicle. Same thing goes for the M60a2. Just interests me.

I spent a god awful amount of money for a Jaguar DS version because I wanted to build a better Sheridan than the Tamiya one I built in the 80s and for my money I got a peice of junk BUT...

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it is a duck. So for me if the kit looks like a Sheridan I won't worry too much if some of the measurements are a little off.

I do agree that with todays level of engineering and CAD there is little excuse for sloppy model design it really can't cost that much more to do some additional research but it seems many companies take a less than disciplined approach and the only real way to impact that is to NOT buy a flawed model and fix it. Unfortunately we are not likely to see any impact from that because we build things that peak our interest not really because they are well made. Lots of people here I am sure have taken something like the Tamiya Sheridan or the Duster and made it into a decent presentation or even a show winner.

As a side note I think whoever built that display model for them was visually impaired or he did the shake and bake kit assembly approach (ie. take a box, cut all parts from the sprue, open one tube of glue, shake well, discard any loose items and your kits done).

[quote
And thank you very much too. I suddenly feel I don't belong here... I won't bother you again.

Pawel[/quote] you know mate i,ve been feeling kind of the same way recently

You are right, they deployed with their normal M551s and fielded M551A1s in theater. They also borrowed LAV-25s from the Marines so I do not know if there were enough M551A1s to equip the entire battalion. Just speculation on my part.

There would be Desert Shield photos of tanks with the searchlights and Desert Storm photos without. A searchlight is redundant when you have the best thermal sights on any US tank (at the time).

I don't recall there being any M551 engagements with enemy tanks. That doesn't mean there weren't any though.

I too am very unhappy with the way these topics have evolved. When anyone posts something of interest (to more than just themselves) is not the job of those who may disagree to try to convince everyone else that the post was frivolous. That is simply not right. Armorama exists to talk about issues just like this. Or would those members concerned rather the "enemy" rivet-counters took their posts to ML, Track-Link, or other sites. I certainly don't and I want them to know they are welcome here no matter what kind of builder they are.

"Armorama is inclusive"...people, say it with me.

Jim

Has anyone put together the Jaguar M551 kit? I read that it was a pain in the butt assembly wise (resin kits are like that sometimes), but it looked pretty accurate. I sold mine back last year since I heard Academy was coming out with one in plastic and figured it would be as nice and easier to assemble.

Oh...and just for the record I completely agree with Pawel that the kind of errors seen on this kit (which if true is not a mock-up) are shameful for this day and age. Come on people...we are not in the 60's-70's anymore and with proper blueprinting of a vehicle these mistakes are really just not right for a company that CAN produce excellent kits like Academy.

Jim

[quote]You are right, they deployed with their normal M551s and fielded M551A1s in theater. They also borrowed LAV-25s from the Marines so I do not know if there were enough M551A1s to equip the entire battalion. Just speculation on my part.[quote]

You wouldn't have some photos of the above vehicles would you? Or a link to them? I have a LAV-25 sitting around, would be a neat subject. Do you know if they were remarked or kept the USMC markings?

I've read posts here by people putting down a certain kit because the clearance between the turret and the upper hull was 0.5 millimeters more than it should be. This is something that the bare eye cannot distinguish. So, I assume these people walk around with magnifying lenses and vernier calipers and other measuring equipment. I think if I ever start doing that, then NO model will be good enough for me. Where am I supposed to draw the line of the required perfection?

Finally, just think of Academy as a company that targets the mediocre modellers, like myself, who are happy to build something (A LOT CHEAPER THAN OTHER COMPANIES' KITS) other than a TIGER and which looks good to me when I look at it from a normal distance. AND JUST DON"T BUY THEIR MODELS. It's as simple as that! IF it weren't for a company like Academy and their low prices, a lot of people like me would never get the chance to build any models, accurate or otherwise.

I hope I haven't offended anyone here. Just trying to make life, and a nice hobby, much simpler.

[quote][quote]You are right, they deployed with their normal M551s and fielded M551A1s in theater. They also borrowed LAV-25s from the Marines so I do not know if there were enough M551A1s to equip the entire battalion. Just speculation on my part.


I have a book on Desert Storm that shows the LAV in use with the 82nd Airborne. It think they are just overall CARC green. My scanner crapped out so I can't scan it for you.

Scott

"Just keep saying it's only a movie..... it's only a movie..... it's only a hobby..... it's only a hobby....... "
[b HOBBY: 1. ]An auxiliary activity[/b]
2. avocation
3.spare-time activity
I can't find a dictionary definition of HOBBY meaning LIFE and DEATH...or the end of the world...... I don't think Academy, or any other manufacture has a gun to anybody's head making anyone buy their kits. I really hate to bring reality to this thread... but 98% of the people that purchase models.....DO NOT COUNT RIVETS...... or run around with a micrometer...... Perhaps that is the goal of the manufacture.... to please the 98%, and not worry about the 2%. Perhaps when you have a couple of million dollars laying around, you will make the perfect kit. Until then, I don't think I'll live long enough to see "The Perfect Kit".

"Just keep saying it's only a movie.... it's only a movie..... it's only a hobby.... it's only a hobby......" I work at the place where the 2% who can't get over the reality of nothing being perfect get to live.......I get to do my JOB and my HOBBY there, on the nightshift.......and I get to come home in the morning. I get to read the post, agree and disagree with the world comminity or topics, and hopefully do it without offending anyone trying to use a little humor. In the past 50 years I have never seen the perfect kit.... nor will I ever see the perfect kit..... I remember when the Tamyia kit was released how it was the greatest thing since sliced bread..... I remember when the original Tamyia M-8 Greyhound was released.... was light years ahead of the Monogram kit...... I remember if you wanted a certain vehicle, you were greatful that someone did a vacuum form of it..... or you scratch built it..............and yes children..... they use to make vacuum formed armour/vehicle kits.

I'll be buying this kit.... and building it....... I may buy many of them, and pass them out as gifts.... you never know....... I'm really a rather generous Grumpy old Fa*t
"It's only a HOBBY..... It's only a HOBBY..... It's only a movie... it's only a movie....... !!!!"


Matthew..... you can be Ringo........ I found the 4th.....
He'll be George..... now everyone can wonder whom's going to be George on my Pink with yellow wheeled Sheridan........ :-) :-) :-) :-)

Yes - when I opened the box enclosing my example for the first time, I was thrilled with all the detail cast into the parts. The worst experience was in working with the track links themselves. The injection-molded plastic parts in my kit had a little residue on them, and even after some cleanings - they were difficult to assembly cleanly. They didn't respond to normal glues well. I was so unsatisified with the tracks, I took them off to contemplate exactly what to do with them other than caking them with "mud".

The main hull casting I had was warped. It took some effort to try and get it back to sit properly. This happens with many all-resin kits though. I spent a little more time to straighten it out because of all the nice details present. The Turret and smaller fittings aren't bad and a considerable improvement over what was previously available. I have a love-hate relationship with it - internally I struggle with quality versus cost when I look at it.

Some of the details in the kit don't jive with the real vehicle up at the MVTF collection I got to go see. That's not to be so unexpected though, for the most part, the Jaguar Sheridan looks like a Sheridan. Sheridan crew members, however, had mentioned some interesting detail modifications to improve the kit.

The model's Turret is cast hollow - allowing for some madness in fleshing out areas. The Hull is cast solid - and heavy. An injection-molded kit does offer some areas to add depth to the model subject. The instructions are okay - at least were for me in this example.

I do admit that I'll be looking at the Jaguar Sheridan closely when the Academy kit comes out. If I were asked to purchase another, I can't say that I would...

Gunnie

This sheriden quality issue recurs just about on every kit release regardless of issuing company.It all boils down to a wait and see/relative price-worth for the modeler.I mean, if it is going to set me back 50 bucks right off the bat,then it better only have a couple of minor accuracy issues and zip for fit/cosmetic mark-offs.If it's 12.95 out of pocket,then yeah,I know I'm gonna have to throw some skilland resource at it to make it look reasonable.This attitude is much more relavent to resin kits where my cost and 'their' quality/accuracy is very scrutinized.
Just some loose change on the table..........

Why would I be happy with a new kit if even basic structure is incorrect, and more important why would I want to pay for it? Would you be happy if you car had only 3 wheels that hit the ground?

Don't get me wrong, I AM HAPPY the new kit is coming out, for the "standard" modeler that is.
For me, as a rivet counter, basic maths have to be correct.. a misplaced tow pintle won't stop me from building, probably a rogue fire suppression handle is doable, but if the suspension or the hull are incorrect, I'm out of the picture.

To me there is no "sacred" model company that can be spared from comment. If a model is superb, it has to be mentioned, but if it is crap it has to be mentioned as well. Even if it is a test-release, maybe the developers at Academy will pick up the comments and correct some of the mistakes.

I'm gonna take the wise decision and wait until Pawel reviews the new kit, and see if the mistakes on the Nurenburg picture will be present in the production model as well...

Sorry to start out my first post like this, but as a fellow modeller I feel compelled to say this.. Some modellers need to see things in hte right perspective. If model companies cared about what a minority of modellers say about them, then things would have changed a long time ago. They go with the 90% of modellers whom one of the guys called (standard modellers) as if that was a bad name or something :-) I guess some people live in their own fantasy world way above the....... Grow up guys and treat this as a hobby, please!!!! All this talk about being happy with a model or not being happy with it. Who cares? If you like something, buy it... If you don't, then don't. I fail to see why this is so vital to you guys. People are being killed in several areas in the world and you guys are worried about a model maybe missing a rivet!! Jesus, just be glad that you have the safety and luxury which allow you to practice this hobby at all.

This is more of just a personal observation about this issue. I don't consider myself a "rivet counter" because I am not that advanced a modeler for one to know where rivets *should* be.

But I think I just realized why our US domestic car makers are still in buiness after all that crap they made in the 70's and 80's (and some still today).

Cheers!
Jim

PS: Omar - Welcome to the site!

Ditto that! Welcome Omar! First post could have been a lot worse :-) Being forthright in a civil way is worth billions in bullion.....

I have the same book and from what I remmeber the green had been painted over very hastily with sand colored paint. It looks like the type of paint that was not perminate and much of it was very thin with the green showing through. I will try and find the book to verify this.

Welcome Omar, nice to have you aboard.
Oh. now I have to try to remember the 5th beatle..... .... ???? The one before Ringo..... ????

Pete Best


Now, back to the "rivet counting" debate ...

I like an accurate kit and can see no reason why modern manufactuters have such a hard time doing this -- especially on a vehicle like the M551 that is relatively easy to find to measure and photograph. That said, if a model comes out that I really want to build, I like it when someone points out that it might have errors. Then I can look for myself and decide whether or not I want to go through the trouble of fixing it.

I think it's a good thing Pawel is pointing out the "first-look" problems with this kit. Maybe Academy will notice and fix it before they release it.

WE (82nd ABN) acquired the LAVS and did some LVAD testing with them, (Low Velocity Air Delivery) in hopes of a replacement for the Sheri when it came time for it to move on to greener pastures. Things didnt go well. The vehicles tended to "come apart" once the made contact with terra fima. So we continued to use our Sheidans. We even quit LAPESing our Sheri's as it was inflicting more damage then dropping them. I lost two in heavy drop operations. Both were casualties to non-opening chutes from 1250' AGL. Not a lot left when 20ish or so tons hits the ground from that height. Folded the roadwheels inhalf like soda tops.

Personally, I'm looking forward to the new kit so I can compare it with my others. I have the Jaguar kit, but I have none of the problems mentioned by the others here. I guess I got lucky. "Q"

Plenty of comments so far on how bad the Jaguar resin kit is, but what's the deal with the Tamiya version?

Here is the link I sent you via PM in case anyone else is interested in seeing the small photo and paragraph (way down at the bottom, 4th paragraph up).
http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/photos/gulf_war/ods.htm