http://www.finance24.com/Finance/Companies/0,,1518-24_1664137,00.html

Interesting.

I'm not sure what the "local" name is for this vehicle, therefore I'm not sure if anyone makes this as a model.
If any Saffers or ex-Saffers now what this vehicle is commonly known as or pics thereof, please post.

Looks like I'm about to partially answer my own question... helps if you Google the correct term... :-)



It's an oldish article but here's some more info anyway:
RG-31 Mine Protected Vehicle

With a combat weight of 8,400 kg., the RG-31 MK3 4x4 Mine Protected APC is built from an all-steel welded armor monocoque hull, typical of South African mine protected vehicles, providing excellent small-arms and mine blast protection as well as small arms fire. The vehicle accommodates a crew of 10 including the driver. Dismounting is provided via a large rear door and two front doors. A different version, the RG-31M features a military wiring harness, central tyre inflation and several other new characteristics. This Vehicle has a crew of 5. RG-31 is currently in service with US Army Task Force Pathfinder attached to the 82nd Airborne Division in Iraq.


And I don't think anyone manufacturers a model of it... yet...

That's a very similar vehicle (appearance-wise, at least) to the Canadian Nyala, found here: http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/English/2_0_6.asp?uSubSection=6&uSection=1 . I believe that we bought it from South Africa as well.

The Canadian division of a US company buys vehicles (or rights to build vehicles) from a South African company for the US military: ahh, I love foreign procurement policies. Not sure where I was going with that though.

So is this just a patrol vehicle or is this a more direct way to look for mines ala based on Russian doctrine? (in WWII, mine-clearing tactics developed by the Soviet Union was to have the troops walk over a suspected minefield to find if it was in fact a mine field)


(Its Friday, my mind is lost in the weekend, sorry for any confusion)
Jeff

is this the same vehicle?






Melon

'Bout time! IMHO, they've had us beat in mine blast protection for years. We should also be looking at replacing our dated systems with proven vehicles such as their Rooikat, and replacing our 155mm howitzers with theirs.

In this case it appears to be a "tactical" or possibly a recon vehicle. I must admit until today I had never even heard of the this, and quite frankly, I would be suprised if our (SA) troops even used this vehicle.
If I were to hazard a guess, could this be a replacement for the Humvee?

Sigh...

This RG-31 vehicle is sometimes referred to as the ALVIS MAMBA.

While BOTH vehicles are excellent in mine protection, I believe the USMC got their choice of the Cougar correct in terms of ballistic protection as well (AK-47 fire). Unfortunately for the Army, the RG-31...last I heard, the insurgents weren't firing M-16s or M-4s at the Army (hint-hint)!!!

As such, the RG-31 has weaker armor protection than a M1114!

I wonder if the RG-31 was choosen by the Army because it's C-130 transportable, not sure if the USMC Cougar is.

So when articles say, "Protection against shrapnel and small arms fire," the U.S. military better know and DEFINE WHAT KIND of small arms fire the vehicle protects against.

The Army's been looking at these for quite a while. Here's a link to a story more than a year ago: http://www4.army.mil/ocpa/read.php?story_id_key=5667

An RG-31 ...



... and a Meerkat.

Both vehicles in Hollowpoints post were in use in Baghdad looking for IED's when I was there in 03' and 04'.

Hello All,
While I was in Iraq, the Army and the Marine Corps used another SA mine detection vehicle that looke much like an ant. It had a single person driver/operator station and more arms hanging off of it than you could count. I will see if I got a picture of it. They use it to detect, remove or destroy mines and IED's.

Andy

Sadly (and I stand under correction) Southern Africa is one of the most landmined areas in the world. So we have kinda been forced to develop vehicles that can withstand these sorts of abuse.

If anyone is interested in building SA AFV's check out these sites: Aerographix and Baxmod Models
The sites are not the greatest and they are out of date (which as a South African I find embarrassing) but I guess they serve their purpose... Apparently the kits are pretty good, unfortunately most of them are braille scale (1/72)...

This post is not about the “Mine is better than Yours” mindset, it is about equipping soldiers with the best that is available to do there task AND bring them home alive! I served in the SA Army and these vehicles’ forerunners (Buffel and Casspir) did just that, it brought numerous SA troops home ALIVE!

Actually Hollowpoint there were tests done with the Meerkat IVMMD (Interim Vehicle-Mounted Mine Detector) as far back as 1997.

Trisaw, almost all SA armoured vehicles are built with the AK47 in mind. There are probably more AK47s in Africa than bread knives . Some also take into consideration the SVD using AP rounds.

The words ‘mine survivability’ are applicable; the vehicle doesn’t survive the blast the occupants do! Like most mine-protected vehicles in SA, right from the Buffel, Casspir etc…, the RG-31 will have been built to take a double cheese mine (two AT mines on top of each other), this technology has been proven in combat.

The M1114 is at present still undergoing tests on surviving a single mine blast, see: http://www.ogara-hess.com/military/Wheeled_Vehicles/M1114/Blast_Testing/index.html, hopefully soon it will be able to do more.

Melon, the two vehicles you are showing are the:

Cougar and is basically an APC for 10.

Buffalo EOD Vehicle: It can actually detonate AP mines by driving over them, without sustaining damage. It was built to withstand a triple cheese mine (three AT mines on top of each other), something used in Angola all too frequently. If damaged in a blast it has the ability to maintain drivability so that it can extract itself from the mined area.

The above two vehicles and the RG-31, plus the Meerkat and Husky trailer system are currently serving (in small numbers) with the US forces.

Here are some photos of the Husky trailer system.

What I keep forgetting, to mention and remember, is that the Meerkat and Husky, although very similar, are two distinctly different vehicles. The lighter Meerkat detects the mines, the Husky tests the route after the mines have been lifted. The Husky can also detect mines, but is larger and heavier than the Meerkat. The trailer system behind the Husky is known as a Duisendpoot, or Millipede in English.

After doing some searching I have come up with the following:

The Meerkat and Husky together are known as the Chubby, Rapid Route and Area Mine Neutralisation System (RRAMNS) and apart from being used by the US forces, it is also under field evaluation by the Australians. See: http://www.dsto.defence.gov.au/corporate/publicity/media/mr2901.html

Also came across this site http://www.wood.army.mil/TSM/gstamids.htm, which seems to suggest that the US Military has been busy with these concepts for quite some time.

Another interesting article can be found here: http://www.defendamerica.mil/articles/nov2004/a110404e.html

As to the actually operational usage, the following quote from Global defence http://www.global-defence.com/1997/RSDChubby.html does an excellent job:

“The operational mine clearance set comprises a mine detection vehicle called the Meerkat that sweeps ahead of a convoy at a speed of up to 35km/h, and can detect and mark locations of potential land-mines for normal sapper clearance. The second vehicle known as the Husky because of its sledge-towing prowess, also is fitted with liftable mine-detector pans, but also tows the two loaded Duisendpoot trailer mine-exploding sets.

Normally, the Meerkat because it travels at speed will detect but not explode a mine. After detection, the vehicle is backed up and using metal-detection pans, accurately pin-points the mine location and drops a marker. Apart from the South-African designed detection system being self-nulling, it is so sensitive it can distinguish between a potential mine and an old beer or coke can. If the Meerkat locates a mine a warning signal is transmitted to the Husky automatically, instructing its driver to halt.

If a mine is not detected by the Meerkat, it is likely that the Husky will. In this event, normal mine-removal techniques again are used. In the unlikely event that both vehicles miss the mine, it will be detonated by the high ground pressure exerted by the Duisendpoot. All vehicles and trailers are designed with proven South African wheel-replacement kits. If any units detonate a mine, the blast will pass the driver's cab harmlessly, but may cause a wheel to be blown off. A follow-up mine-protected Samil army truck and trailer carries a full repair kit, including spare-wheel modules that are designed to be replaced within 30 minutes. Compared with human lives, these wheel modules are cheap and all sensitive electronics are located within the blast-protected cab.

In operational use, a Chubby can cover up to 200km during daylight in Africa on mined roads. The alternators of all vehicles are switched off when in the sweep mode to avoid interference, and this means battery recharging or replacement, every six hours.”


From what I saw of demonstrations and such, of the clearance of mines in conjunction with these vehicles, the Husky and Millipede offers the Sapper/Engineer a physical walkway to the detected mine. Also during lifting, the mine is usually extracted from the ground by actually pulling it from the ground with a rope/hook combination (in case of booby-traps), for this the Husky provides cover for the Sapper against an explosion.

No way. For one, press coverage would go through the roof in providing info, costs, and opinions. The basic HMMWV is getting old and needs a bit of upgrading in some cases - mainly engine is I remember correctly, but the newest ones are pretty good (that is, their deficiencies are as small as possible). The M1114 is here to stay for a while.

Another indication that this isn't replacing the Humvee is that there are only 148 more of these RG-31s being ordered than the relatively few numbers already in service.

The last indication that this won't replace the HMMWV is in its purpose. The HMMWV serves two main purposes: cargo (troops and material) and security.
The M998 and its variants are the cargo carriers, the M1025 and its variants provide the security. I use security in a loose sense. In this case security means base and convoy security, recon, and light attack. The M114 which is replacing the M1025 (am I correct in that?) is an up-armored version.

This RG-31 is basically an armored explosive-sweeper.





Also, I have quickly come to learn that just because a company designs it, doesn't mean that its host country has to operate it. A perfect example of this is the new F-16 Block 60 (or 62?) also known as the F-16E. It is being bought and operated for the Greeks and UAE, but last time I checked the US, continuing its work on the JSF isn't planning on buying any.

Jeff

The Aerographix Rooikat isn't so hot... There's a lot of flash on the hull (Atleast there was on my example, they may have fixed that now).




Lmao... Your probably right on that score :-) :-) :-)




I wouldn't suggest straying from a path in the middle of nowhere

Nah, seriously... Apparently it's still pretty bad in and around Central Africa!


Taken at last years Africa Aerospace and Defense Expo at Waterkloof AFB ...



Cougar

Hi All

Here is my two cents worth. The AVF is called the Mamba. For those of you who are wondering what that means, it is the name of a very poisonous snake found in South Africa. One bite and ur dead!

It is in use with the South African Army. It repalced the older open topped Buffel which was build on the chassis of a Unimog. As far as I can assertain the vehicle is a Monocoque vehicle bassed on the higly succesful Casspir. It also incorporates lessons learned from the Casspir through its use by Koevoet COIN units in Namibia - the open roof hatch, gun mounts, large rear door ext.

Its mine protection is propably light years ahead of anything, sorry, the US might be testing. The Casspir, the ultimate bundu basher, could withstand the blast of some pretty big amounts of explosives. Here are two examples from Peter Stiff's Covert War which I am reading at the moment.

During 1981 one of the first Casspirs in use with Koevoet hit a mine near Oshikati. It was a pretty well boosted bastard. It consisted of two TM 57 land mines ontop of each other connected to two others, also on top of each other, by det cord. The first set exploded under the front wheels with the second set under the body of the vehicle. The car commander was catapulted about 20 meters away and fall flat on his back. The rest of the crew was bounced around a bit. The total casaulties were a few sprained ligaments and a lot of bruises. The Casspir was recovered and repaired.

During 1982, some where in Owamboland, a Casspir hit a massively boosted mine. In total about 25 kgs of explosives. The mine hurled the big machine about 27m forward where it landed on its side. It was a total write of but there were no casualties except for the usual sprains and bruises.

There are alot more such cases during the 10 years in which the Casspir was in use. I think in only about 5% of mine explosions were there fatalities during the time the Casspir was in use with Koevoet.

Oh if you are wondering Koevoet means Crowbar. They were an elite police COIN unit made up of some of the bravest men I know of. They consisted of trained Owambos and other locals from the north of Namibia with South African Cops as commanders. They used alot of turned "Terrs" as well. They have an impressive record. In 10 years they had around 1300 contacts (firefights) and got upwards of 3600 kills. The most succesful COIN unit at the time. For this they sufferd greviously losing around 200 men and another 950 wounded.

Can't for the life of me remember then name of the vehicle(what we called it), but the one with the arm/pitchfork type thing was something we had to escort around our little piece of Baghdad. Would leave from the main camp, and get passed from unit to unit as it made it's route.

First time we had to deal with it, the unit controlling it didn't follow instructions and followed a route that was closed due to small arms contact. They came under RPG contact, and it and an M1114 were damage(RPG went through the roof of the M1114 just in front of the gunner).

Another incident later on was a small breakdown, and it was quickly destroyed by the enemy. Much weaker than the M1114, but being able to do a stand off move of an IED was extremely handy, and the vehicle was still in use after the elections. Probably 8 months or so of us supporting it off and on with a section of trucks to escort it.

Now if I could only remember the danged name...

There were 2 of the regular SA ones painted UN white at the UN Building(The one blown up in Oct 2003). Part of our area of responsibility, so got a chance to crawl through them. Pretty neat, although felt cramped.


Jed Sargent

MAMBA......... all specs.......http://mamba.armour.co.za/mamba-info.shtm
aye
BARV

So, that's what those things were! During my time at Bagram last year, I'd see some of the vehicles that are being discussed in this thread. I "knew" (guessed is more like it) what they were for, just never had an idea what the names were or where the originated. Course, it didn't suprise me that there was a lot of mine detecting/clearing gear being used out there. I think the whole area in and around the base was once a minefield.

Thanks for shedding some light on what those crazy looking vehicles were.