Does anyone have the ability to do this. I am making a personal model of my tank and I would like to get some decals to do the correct bumper numbers and the name which we stenciled on so the lettering would be roughly the same as for bumper numbers. We had white bumper numbers in 77. This was just before we pulled the tanks in and went to the 3 color scheme so the tank ws OD with the white numbers rather than black. Figure I can dig up a white star from a korean war/WW-2 tank

what I would need would be :
1. 2 each of the following

8I 2/68 (that's suppossed to be a capital i after the first 8 signifying infantry division and there would be a triangle after the last 8 signiying an armor battalion)

and B-11

name was BULLHEADED and changed to BEARDED CLAM (prefer the last one but if it offends you then do the first)

i KNOW SOME OF YOU PRINT YOUR OWN DECALS, MY SYSTEM IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH UNFORTUNEATELY

Steve,
I think I might have some white dry transfer letters and numbers at home. I will check tonight. That is porbably the only way you might have to go. Printing white is hard unless you have one of those fancy printers.

I'm very interested in this one too, Steve. I'm going to be doing a couple of vehicles from about 2 years earlier and from the other side of the traffic circle up on the top of the hill. You know, down the street from the "King of Clubs" :-) :-)

I've done the white transfer letters for some of my "Baumholder" builds, and it's very tedious to say the least. I got a great note on where to find the paper to make my own decals, but like Pete said, I'm betting my printer won't do white. If it does, I'll be happy to make some up for you, since I've got to do some "Crazy 8" bumper markings myself, 'cept for mine are gonna have an "F" not one of those triangle thingies :-) :-)

Anybody ever done any white letters before??

Tom

Here is the way I apply the dry transfers. It might seem like a little more work, but the results are good.

I apply the dry transfer down on clear decal paper, then I just apply it like a regular decal. the only thing you have to worry about is scratching off the dry transfer fromthe decal paper. Once in place, use decal setting solution like normal and then seal with clear coat.
I did my bumper numbers and names on windows of the 3 hummers i am going to submit for the campaign Moezilla came up with.

I'd be interested in this myself. I was stationed in Baumholder from 77-79 with C Btry 1/83 FA. Our bumper code was 8IF83. Nice to see some other Pathfinders out there.
Hey thathaway3...what arty unit were you in? As I recall...there was 1/ 83 with M109A1s and 1/2 with M110s.
Plasticat

LOL, I plan on doing a Crazy 8 vehicle too. My battalion was 3-68 AR but became 5-77 AR just prior to my arrival.

Our bumper numbers were black, but I think you have the hyphen in the wrong place. It should be B-11 and not B 1-1.

You're right Sabot.....I thought it looked wrong when I wrote it, but seeing it as B-11 is the way it was

Oh and Plasticat Tom was with Half-assed Arty

(They had a donkey as their unit crest for all you editors)

I was attached to them for a year in 79 as a FIST Chief

If we are talking about hyphens, note that "by the book" it is M60, M60A1, M60A2 and so on. No hyphen in there. Hyphens are used in aircraft designations, like UH-1D, F-15A, A-10 etc., but not in "M" equipment. So it is M16A2 rifle, M1A1 tank, M113A3 APC etc.

Please don't consider it a nitpicking - I just provide this info in case anyone is confused and doesn't know what is correct.

Pawel

Guilty as charged! I was in First Battalion, Second Field Artilley, or 1/2 Arty, from Oct '72 until Aug '75. Spent two years in Bravo Battery, and the last year as Target Acq Plt Leader and HHB XO. When I got there, the battalion had the short tube M109, and within two years, first applied the 4 color "7th Army" pattern paint, and then converted to the long tube M109A1. I've got a shot from the motor pool of the gun line with A Btry with long tubes and B and C still with the short tubes.

Plasticat: In addition to 1/83 and 1/2 which had the M109A1 for Direct Support, 1/81 was over at Idar Oberstein also with M109A1. Believe it or not, in 1972 the entire 1st Brigade of the Division was AIRBORNE, consisting of 1st, 2nd and 3rd Battalions of the 509th Infantry, and the (then) 5th of the 81st was in Mainz with them and had M102s. The entire BDE converted to Mech with some VERY lucky guys remaining on jump status and going to Vicenza, Italy. What started out as the 509th there is now the 173d Airborne Bde I believe.

The unit in Baumholder that had the M110 8" (and I don't recall that they had converted to the long tube A2 by the time I left Baumholder in April 1977, was 3/16 FA.

So there's at least FOUR ex Pathfinders. Any more?

Tom

Shortly after I left in December 1990, when units returned from Desert Storm in 1991, the 8th ID deactivated. But in actuality, it was the 3rd AD that deactivated and the 8th was reflagged as the 3rd AD. Once the "new" 3rd AD deactivated, the former 3rd Bde, 8th ID moved from Mannheim to Ft. Lewis and became the 3rd Bde, 2 ID. This unit has since become one of the first Stryker Brigades.

So technically, there are remnants of the old Pathfinder Division still kicking around. Not many though.

When I arrived in 1987, I was surprised to still see M60A3TTS tanks in the motor pool. During my time there, we went from M60A3TTS to M1A1 to M1A1HA. We also turned in the last of the M151A2 Jeeps for HMMWVs and our scout platoon was turning in M113A2 and M901 ITVs for M3A1 Bradleys.


There is a member with the callsign 568armor. That was the other armor battalion of the 3 Bde (they eventually became 3-77 AR in 1989). I believe he is a former Pathfinder.

1. Pete who makes the transfers and where can I get them? Same with decal paper. Do they just have some letters, or are multiples of all available so I can put the "name" on the tank

2. Pawell...Ok the deal with the hyphen is it is a tank bumper number B-11 signifies Bravo company 1st platoon 1st tank (platoon leader) and yes you are absolutly correct in your equipment designations so you weren't nitpicking

3. My history is I started out as a platoon Leader in 2/68 After a year, I got into an "argument" with my company commander....he personally insulted me in front of 3/4 of the officers corp of my battalion. so me being a lowly LT...I paid the price and was transfered over to 1/68. I worked on Battalion staff for a bit as an interm S-1 then went and worked with a platoon for 6 months until the FIST job in Half Arty came up. Lets just say I embarrased a lot of the real Arty folks with my attitude and skills. The battalion Cmmdr and XO both tried to get me permanently assigned. After a year, went back as an asst 3 to my Tank Battalion until they relocated to Wildflecken. I was short, so I didn't make the move. I could't wait to get home I was so sick of the Army. Lucky me though, I got into a cracker jack reserve unit and had a marvelous 10 years with them. Got promoted to Major and then moved to Texas job hunting...couldn't find a reserve unit that had an open slot so after a couple of years trying to do correspondence....that was it.

I remember thinking how strange the "numbering" was when I got to the 8th ID. We had 5 armor battalions in the Division scattered among the 3 BDEs. We had 1/68, 2/68, 3/68 and 5/68. And then there was 4/69. Now what is up with THAT? :-) :-)

Tom

Steve,
Woodland Scenics has numbers and letters. Most of the time, both in one sheet and in different sizes.
here is another company that has lots of numbers and leters and are already to scale:

Archer Dry Transfers

Plasticat: In addition to 1/83 and 1/2 which had the M109A1 for Direct Support, 1/81 was over at Idar Oberstein also with M109A1.
The unit in Baumholder that had the M110 8" (and I don't recall that they had converted to the long tube A2 by the time I left Baumholder in April 1977, was 3/16 FA.


Tom[/quote]
I totally forgot about 3/16, but it has all come back to me now. While I was there from Nov 77-Aug 79, 3/16 had the short tube M110s. And 1/81, 1/83 and half-arty had M109A1s.
Sorry for the rabbit trail off the main topic, but when I get in the "way back machine", I can get carried away.

I don't know the answer to that, but during my time, the Army was trying to rejuvenate the regimental system.

Under a plan called the Combat Arms Regimental System or CARS for short, the Army was going to keep tankers, infantrymen and artillerymen within the same regiment.

The divisions maintained basically the entire regiment within its brigades, i.e. 1-68, 2-68, 3-68, 5-68. To do this without stranding a soldier in a stateside or OCONUS unit for his entire career, the Army chose two different divisions and "swapped" regiments.

In actuality, the Army just changed unit designations for a couple of battalions. For example, the 8th ID was paired with the 4th ID in Ft. Carson. The 4th's 3-77 AR and 5-77 AR battalions were "swapped" with the 8th's 5-68 AR and 3-68 AR (only colors were exchanged, units did not move).

Now soldiers would be stuck going from Ft. Carson to Germany and back again throughout their career. Not a great idea.

Right after the 8th ID-4th ID change took place, the Wall came down, Germany was reunited and the peace dividend allowed divisions to be deactivated.

When I left the 8th ID, the armor battalions were now 1-68 in Wildflicken, 2-68 in Baumholder, 4-34 in Mainz, 3-77 and 5-77 in Mannheim.

If you were wondering where 4-68 Armor was, that unit was an Army Reserve tank battalion located in Pennsylvania. I believe it was either deactivated or transferred to the National Guard around the time when the Army, Army Reserve and Army National Guard decided to put combat support units in the Reserves and combat units in the Guard.

Sorry for going way off topic here.

I dont mind you guys going off topic. I like hearing your OLD war stories. Opps, did I say old out loud. You can lock up this "Buck Sargent" if you want sir!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the TB for bumper markings says you're supposed to use the hyphen between company and vehicle number like you said. But you know how it goes once you actually get to the motor pool. The "book" gets coffee spilled on it, and the vehicles get done with what ever stencils you got! :-)

I've got photos of some of our vehicles that show "8 1 F 2" (8th Division, 1st battalion 2nd Field Artillery), and others that show "8-1F2". And some vehicles had B xx with no hyphen, but most were B-xx. And probably on a given day, the same vehicle might be different.

I generally try and be as accurate as I can, and will use photos for reference when I can. But afterall this is a hobby and is supposed to be fun. I'm all for doing the best job of building that you can and enjoying myself.

What I really love about THIS site is that everybody else seems to feel the same way. Questions are answered thoroughly and promptly, and criticism is always helpful and constructive.

The knowledge the people have on this site is surpassed only by the willingness to share it in a friendly manner. And that's WAY cool!

Tom

I've got both the black and white Archer and they are good. The problem is doing them one at a time. But the suggestion about doing the letters on to a "wet decal" sheet first, and then applying that sounds like a great idea. I'm gonna try that one out.

Tom

In addition to building military models, I also occsionally build police cars. I used some of the Testor's decal paper and sealer in the past to make lettering and emblems. I used photographs of the emblems and scaled them to the size I needed and printed them. I found the right font style I needed, made them the color I needed, scaled them and then printed them on the clear paper. The kit comes with white paper also, but I never used it, since I was applaying the decals to white cars, the clear worked better.

I said all that to say, I would think you would be able to print your own number, etc. Just knowing the measurement for the actual size of the emblem, lettering, etc. then some division down to the scale you are working with so your decals are the right size. I always printed mine on regular paper first to check the size then I filled the screen with everything I wanted to print on the decal paper and let her go.

This has worked pretty good. I'll try to post a picture or two of the cars I made the decals for and let you see how they turned out.

I had to check some old photos of my A3. Now I realize that we served quite a time apart, but our bumper numbers looked like this:

Front of vehicle as you look at it (right side is to the left):

8I 5▲77 * A-21

Left Rear access plate:
8I
5▲77

Right rear access plate:
A-21

Rear bumper numbers were on the hull access plates. The US star was near the tow pintle.

We put platoon names on the bore evacuator (i.e. "Deuces Wild") and the tank name on the smoke grenade launcher stowage box. My M60A3TTS went through several names.

When I got there it was named "Kelly" (after the previous TC's girlfriend, who was not his wife). I quickly re-named the tank "Black Jack" since it was tank number 21.

The B-21 platoon leader/TC asked me if his tank could be "Black Jack" since his new company commander required all B Co. tanks to begin with a "B". For some reason there was not a requirement battalion wide to name your tank with the letter of your company.

I let him use the name Black Jack and then changed the name to what my radio call sign was, "Wild One". I only commanded that tank for about a year and a half. I was in charge of turning all the M60A3 tanks from my company into an equipment concentration site in Kaiserslatern. This was the name the tank probably carried to the bottom of the ocean as an artificial reef.

Thanks, Tony! It's always easier to put the entire group of numbers in place together as a wet decal, rather than try and line up singles for a dry transfer. Inevitably, something gets in the way trying to rub the letters down, so I'm looking for the easy way out. Even if it takes me WAY more time!!! :-)

Tom

I had to check some old photos of my A3. Now I realize that we served quite a time apart, but our bumper numbers looked like this:

Front of vehicle as you look at it (right side is to the left):

8I 5▲77 * A-21

Left Rear access plate:
8I
5▲77

Right rear access plate:
A-21


Thanks Rob...that's the way we did it too, I figured that out last night when I was looking through decals from old kits to see what I could scounge up. Digging back once again into old 8th ID history, which battalion either 3-68 or 5-68 used the M60a2's. I think they dumped them in 79

I wonder when they started putting the "I" for infantry in, because all my photos from the 72-75 time frame omit the "Division" indicator from Infantry Divisions, but add the ▲ after the number for Armor Divisions.

Tom

I remember the " I" distinctly. Might just be a tank thing or they started doing it when I got there in77. You guys were a Division asset, we were broken down in brigades with the Infantry battalions, so that may have had something to do with it too

I think it was an equalizer. The armor divisions used ▲, the airborne divisions used ABN, the cavalry division used CAV and the mountain division used MTN. The infantry was probably made to add an "I" just so everyone was alike and no one more special than the other.