Hosted by Darren Baker
Group Build: Italeri Sherman
ARMDCAV
Joined: July 29, 2002
KitMaker: 115 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 02:12 AM UTC
This group build idea sounds like a really nice project. I would like to participate so would someone please consolidate all the suggested parameters and come up with some guidelines? From the responses I've read I don't think that rules persay are where everybody wants to go. More of a "we all agree to adhere" kind of thought process. I for one plan to read and incorporate all the neat ideas I believe will be generated by this. What an opertunity to actually be there so to speak while some of our more accomplished members build the same kit I will have right there on my work bench. I do have question about the OOB requirement. Would it be acceptable to modify the kit supplied parts vs adding am as long as the part used is the from the kit part?
avukich
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
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Posted: Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 02:20 AM UTC
Another alternative AM barrel is Chesapeake Model Designs' 76mm without muzzle brake.
I just ordered it and it came to $7 + $2 shipping. If anyone is interested you can call Bill Miley (he is Chesapeake Model Designs) at 410-357-5496 or email him at [email protected].
I was told that this barrel takes the cake by some of the "Sherman experts" over at TL.
I just ordered it and it came to $7 + $2 shipping. If anyone is interested you can call Bill Miley (he is Chesapeake Model Designs) at 410-357-5496 or email him at [email protected].
I was told that this barrel takes the cake by some of the "Sherman experts" over at TL.
210cav
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 02:29 AM UTC
[quote]Another alternative AM barrel is Chesapeake Model Designs' 76mm without muzzle brake.
I just ordered it and it came to $7 + $2 shipping. If anyone is interested you can call Bill Miley (he is Chesapeake Model Designs) at 410-357-5496 or email him at [email protected].
I was told that this barrel takes the cake by some of the "Sherman experts" over at TL.[/quote
Adam--I placed an order with Bill for the older and newer versions of the barrel. I also found that the Barrel Depot Chief recommended is loaded with great material. Just make sure to go from CDN to US. An example, the JR 35034 90mm M-26 barrel is CDN 11.99 and Us 7.59....not too bad. At some point, I need to discuss building the Tamiya T-34 with you.
DJ
I just ordered it and it came to $7 + $2 shipping. If anyone is interested you can call Bill Miley (he is Chesapeake Model Designs) at 410-357-5496 or email him at [email protected].
I was told that this barrel takes the cake by some of the "Sherman experts" over at TL.[/quote
Adam--I placed an order with Bill for the older and newer versions of the barrel. I also found that the Barrel Depot Chief recommended is loaded with great material. Just make sure to go from CDN to US. An example, the JR 35034 90mm M-26 barrel is CDN 11.99 and Us 7.59....not too bad. At some point, I need to discuss building the Tamiya T-34 with you.
DJ
ARMDCAV
Joined: July 29, 2002
KitMaker: 115 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 02:48 AM UTC
Question on the use of an am barrel. Is the kit barrel so inaccurate that it's not really usable or is the confict with it the need to remove the seams? I would like to use just the kit parts if nothing else to see how accurate this kit can be made OOB.
avukich
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 03:00 AM UTC
The barrel is inaccurate. It has a ficticious step in it. The Elefant AM barrel faithfully reproduces this error so if you plan to get an AM barrel, stay away from the Elefant one.
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 03:10 AM UTC
Well - since no one is jumping in here to establish a set of parameters for all to agree upon - here goes:
Modifications to the OOB Rule - in the spirit of the Group Project.
Fixing of minor kit details, damaged, broken, or plain incorrect for the M4A1 is allowed. Minor detail is defined as gun barrel, antenna mount & wire, headlight/taillight guards, tie-downs, tow cable(s), wheels/idlers/drive sprockets, replacement .50cal or .30cal., and rear engine deck breather grill.
Different decals or painting of markings is allowed for individuality.
No interiors.
No major changes to make or mark - no conversion or backdating to something other than what the kit is meant to represent.
No engines or cutaway details.
No huge amounts of extra gear and stowage.
Thoughts anyone/everyone?
Gunnie
Modifications to the OOB Rule - in the spirit of the Group Project.
Fixing of minor kit details, damaged, broken, or plain incorrect for the M4A1 is allowed. Minor detail is defined as gun barrel, antenna mount & wire, headlight/taillight guards, tie-downs, tow cable(s), wheels/idlers/drive sprockets, replacement .50cal or .30cal., and rear engine deck breather grill.
Different decals or painting of markings is allowed for individuality.
No interiors.
No major changes to make or mark - no conversion or backdating to something other than what the kit is meant to represent.
No engines or cutaway details.
No huge amounts of extra gear and stowage.
Thoughts anyone/everyone?
Gunnie
Dubanka
Joined: June 29, 2002
KitMaker: 152 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 05:05 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Modifications to the OOB Rule - in the spirit of the Group Project.
Fixing of minor kit details, damaged, broken, or plain incorrect for the M4A1 is allowed. Minor detail is defined as gun barrel, antenna mount & wire, headlight/taillight guards, tie-downs, tow cable(s), wheels/idlers/drive sprockets, replacement .50cal or .30cal., and rear engine deck breather grill.
Different decals or painting of markings is allowed for individuality.
No interiors.
No major changes to make or mark - no conversion or backdating to something other than what the kit is meant to represent.
No engines or cutaway details.
No huge amounts of extra gear and stowage.
Thoughts anyone/everyone?
Gunnie
Gunnie,
I kinda wanted someone to step up cause I didn't want to be the group build Nazi. Thanks.
Define fixing of minor details .....because many minor details are easily replaced by the AM, and I think that we should try to remedy problems with our modelling skills (IE thinning the guards ) instead of the easy (and sometimes expensive) way out. I Have many of the AM parts for the kit as I'm sure you do, But I'll put them to the side until after the build.
I agree with the decals and stowage.
We still have till the 1st of Oct ober to figure out the rules, so we have to get moving....
John
Kencelot
Joined: December 27, 2001
KitMaker: 4,268 posts
Armorama: 2,804 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 05:24 AM UTC
What about time frames? Do we, for example, build through one step at a time per week? There are 9 steps in the instructions plus 1 more for painting and weathering for a total of 10 steps or 10 weeks. Is this time frame too long or too short?
Is there another way to do the build without time frames?
Just another thought.
Is there another way to do the build without time frames?
Just another thought.
Dubanka
Joined: June 29, 2002
KitMaker: 152 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 05:31 AM UTC
That sounds like a nice idea Ken, but I dont know how many people would adhere to it. I know that sometimes I get on a roll, and just build away. Let's let the masses decide.....
John
John
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 07:08 AM UTC
Quoted Text
What about time frames? Do we, for example, build through one step at a time per week? There are 9 steps in the instructions plus 1 more for painting and weathering for a total of 10 steps or 10 weeks. Is this time frame too long or too short?
Is there another way to do the build without time frames?
Just another thought.
Hmmm - never done that before, but I'd go for it. I have so many other things going on it would actually be a nice way to pace myself. A week per assembly step would work for me.
Gunnie
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 07:13 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Gunnie,
I kinda wanted someone to step up cause I didn't want to be the group build Nazi. Thanks.
Define fixing of minor details .....because many minor details are easily replaced by the AM, and I think that we should try to remedy problems with our modelling skills (IE thinning the guards ) instead of the easy (and sometimes expensive) way out. I Have many of the AM parts for the kit as I'm sure you do, But I'll put them to the side until after the build.
I agree with the decals and stowage.
We still have till the 1st of Oct ober to figure out the rules, so we have to get moving....
John
Sure, no problem John - I don't mind being the Group Build Nazi
Me, personally, I try not to resort to photoetch and AM in every model I build - so I'd naturally refrain from adding it to my model in this case. It would be nice to allow the other builders some freedom to choose. Some might want to get more experience messing with the brass, and some could use a break from it to rediscover cleanup and ingenuity skills almost forgotten. Some participants might be serious AMS'ers coming in from out of the cold - 'ya know they can't let it all go at one time!
Gunnie
Kencelot
Joined: December 27, 2001
KitMaker: 4,268 posts
Armorama: 2,804 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 07:22 AM UTC
My idea goes like this:
Because each of us has other projects going on, other's are at different skill levels, and still others have time restraints...wives, kids. work, school, etc.
With time frames, we could, at the end of each week share our experiences, problems - solutions,etc (pictures could be shared too) for each of the steps in the instructions.
I think this way we all become part of the "group build". If someone gets stuck, they could call out for some advice so they don't fall behind. If others want to jump ahead thats fine. Just make notes or something at the end of each of their steps to share with the group.
10 weeks may seem like a long time but, we all know that time flys when we're having fun. Before you know it, the models are done, ready for posting. :-)
Because each of us has other projects going on, other's are at different skill levels, and still others have time restraints...wives, kids. work, school, etc.
With time frames, we could, at the end of each week share our experiences, problems - solutions,etc (pictures could be shared too) for each of the steps in the instructions.
I think this way we all become part of the "group build". If someone gets stuck, they could call out for some advice so they don't fall behind. If others want to jump ahead thats fine. Just make notes or something at the end of each of their steps to share with the group.
10 weeks may seem like a long time but, we all know that time flys when we're having fun. Before you know it, the models are done, ready for posting. :-)
Dubanka
Joined: June 29, 2002
KitMaker: 152 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 07:48 AM UTC
Okay, so between us, we've proposed that we build the kit with minor innacurate details added, but within a time frame.....judging from the results from Jim's poll, 35 people voted for the sherman. I'm figuring that about 15-20 will actually build with us.
Maybe Jim can put yet another poll out to be decided on the 1st.
Should we build:
OOB, with AM barrel if wanted
Minor scratchbuilt details
Builder decides what additions to make or add (no conversions or backdating)
The winning decisions will be the majority, but anyone with questions or info can chime in.
Sound good?
John
Maybe Jim can put yet another poll out to be decided on the 1st.
Should we build:
OOB, with AM barrel if wanted
Minor scratchbuilt details
Builder decides what additions to make or add (no conversions or backdating)
The winning decisions will be the majority, but anyone with questions or info can chime in.
Sound good?
John
ARMDCAV
Joined: July 29, 2002
KitMaker: 115 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 08:21 AM UTC
Go for it gunnie. I see that things are starting to narrow down a little which is good. The comment about some AM reliant modelers having trouble giving up the habit is kind of the reason here isn't it? OOB? And the fact that Modelexpo has given many a cheap oppertunity to participate is also a reason right? Then it must be true that we're not trying to see who can build the best but rather can we work together to help each other build an acceptable model out of the box. Showing each other how we fixed the part not replaced it. The barrel I admit would take some extraordinary effort to correct. So be it. I have the kit in front of me and I see that there are detail parts included and compared to some, the 50 cal isn't all that bad. Maybe someone knows a few tricks to enhance it? Same with the tools and stowage? Kind of like the idea about fix it if it can be fixed and not just replacing it because thats easier. If the part is totally wrong and cannot be corrected then those that know can maybe give the others a heads up which ones can't and what resources they used to correct it? Which ever way the group goes is allright because I'm still pretty sure I am going to learn a lot from this. One more thought. I think this thread may get a bit long so maybe the group nazi 
would be kind enough to start a new thread as we progress. "Group build inst. 1, week 1" sort of thing?
would be kind enough to start a new thread as we progress. "Group build inst. 1, week 1" sort of thing? avukich
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 07:14 PM UTC
When are we planning on starting the first step? Could we wait for everyone's kits to arrive (i.e. me and at least one other person was saying that they had just ordered theirs)? I ordered mine from ModelExpo on Tuesday and they said 7 - 10 business days. I don't think that I've been this excited about a modeling project for a while. I am one of those people with a serious case of AMS and I can't wait to do a model OOB as a change of pace!
bytepilot
Joined: June 01, 2002
KitMaker: 381 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 07:54 PM UTC
Hi Guys,
Just thought I'd drop in an absolute newbie #:-) q here. I have a 1/72 Hasegawa boxed kit which I bought on Ebay. It says M4A1 Halftrack. Is this the same thing you are discussing, or am I talking about another vehicle?
Would have loved to join in here, but since the build says Italeri 1/35, guess I can't join in
...However, would love to see all your inputs as you build up your models. Who knows, I may also take part offline !
Cheers, and enjoy urself..
BP.
Just thought I'd drop in an absolute newbie #:-) q here. I have a 1/72 Hasegawa boxed kit which I bought on Ebay. It says M4A1 Halftrack. Is this the same thing you are discussing, or am I talking about another vehicle?
Would have loved to join in here, but since the build says Italeri 1/35, guess I can't join in
...However, would love to see all your inputs as you build up your models. Who knows, I may also take part offline !Cheers, and enjoy urself..
BP.
avukich
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 07:58 PM UTC
Are you sure that the box doesn't say M3A1 Halftrack? I've never heard of an M4A1 Halftrack.
The vehicle that we are talking about is the M4A1 Sherman which was one of the versions of America's main battle tank during WWII. It is a fully tracked vehicle with a turret. A halftrack is more like a truck with the rear wheels replaced by tracks. It was used to ferry troops and supplies to the front lines and in some cases it was mounted with artillery or mortars.
The vehicle that we are talking about is the M4A1 Sherman which was one of the versions of America's main battle tank during WWII. It is a fully tracked vehicle with a turret. A halftrack is more like a truck with the rear wheels replaced by tracks. It was used to ferry troops and supplies to the front lines and in some cases it was mounted with artillery or mortars.
bytepilot
Joined: June 01, 2002
KitMaker: 381 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 08:06 PM UTC
Uhm.. Sorry if I sound like a dunce #:-), but my list says 'M4A1 halftrack'. Havta go home and check it up.
Thing is, I didn't get the original boxes from the guy at Ebay. He'd put up about 6 Armor 1/72 kits at a cheap rate, and had reboxed them according to the kits in smaller cardboard boxes. However, he did enclose the top box art, and that was were I compiled my list from.
Will let you know laterz..
BP.
Thing is, I didn't get the original boxes from the guy at Ebay. He'd put up about 6 Armor 1/72 kits at a cheap rate, and had reboxed them according to the kits in smaller cardboard boxes. However, he did enclose the top box art, and that was were I compiled my list from.
Will let you know laterz..
BP.
bytepilot
Joined: June 01, 2002
KitMaker: 381 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 11:44 PM UTC
Hi avukich,
I checked up on the kit, and it does say 'M4A1 Halftrack'.
Here are the images for your reference....
Box Art and Instruction sheet
Anyway, it doesn't look like a tank, so I can't enter it here :-)!
Cheers,
BP.
I checked up on the kit, and it does say 'M4A1 Halftrack'.
Here are the images for your reference....
Box Art and Instruction sheet
Anyway, it doesn't look like a tank, so I can't enter it here :-)!
Cheers,
BP.
avukich
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Friday, September 27, 2002 - 12:17 AM UTC
Can anyone else look at those pictures and tell me if I'm crazy or did Hasegawa mislabel the kit? It looks like a M3A1 to me and I've never even heard of an M4A1 halftrack.
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Friday, September 27, 2002 - 12:28 AM UTC
Adam, there were many different versions of the US Half-Track employed during WW II. The M4 and M4A1 were 81mm Mortar Carriers, with a crew of 8 soldiers. Both of them came equipped with a skate ring (like the White M3 Scout Car) where the .50cal gun could be traversed all around the vehicle if necessary.
Gunnie
Gunnie
avukich
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Friday, September 27, 2002 - 12:34 AM UTC
Thanks Gunnie. Now that you mention it I did know that the M4 was basically an M3 with a mortar in it, but I didn't realize that there was an M4A1 too.
m60a3
Joined: March 08, 2002
KitMaker: 778 posts
Armorama: 396 posts
Posted: Friday, September 27, 2002 - 07:59 AM UTC
Well, I guess I started this mess, sorry DJ!...I am planning to use the Jordi Rubio TG-32 M1A2 76mm.
As to 75mm guns, I did not even consider them (although if you are making an early A1, that is the gum you need to use). I added a 75mm barrel to my Lee and I did not have any qualms about the look.
As to 75mm guns, I did not even consider them (although if you are making an early A1, that is the gum you need to use). I added a 75mm barrel to my Lee and I did not have any qualms about the look.
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