Hosted by Darren Baker
Group Build: Italeri Sherman
avukich
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 02:30 AM UTC
O.k. I thought that I would get this topic started with a question about the barrel. Since we are allowing AM barrels I was wondering what is the best AM barrel for the M4A1. It has already been said that the Elefant barrel is no good so what is? According to Kurt Laughlin over on TL nothing is good, but I don't think that I believe that.
210cav
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 02:32 AM UTC
Quoted Text
O.k. I thought that I would get this topic started with a question about the barrel. Since we are allowing AM barrels I was wondering what is the best AM barrel for the M4A1. It has already been said that the Elefant barrel is no good so what is? According to Kurt Laughlin over on TL nothing is good, but I don't think that I believe that.
Adam--I have the same question. Asked Bob Morales who apparently has an Aluminum Barrel available. Wonder what Grand Dad's has in stock? I can't think of anyone else in our area who carries them.
DJ
avukich
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 02:39 AM UTC
DJ,
I'm pretty sure that Grandad's is the only place in the area to get AM stuff. I typically don't buy stuff like that from them though. I get kits and AM stuff on-line because it is much cheaper and I buy supplies like paints, thinner, primer, plastic card, etc. at Grandad's. Based on what Kurt says over on TL I will most likely go with the Jordi Rubio barrel unless someone here can tell me a better one.
I'm pretty sure that Grandad's is the only place in the area to get AM stuff. I typically don't buy stuff like that from them though. I get kits and AM stuff on-line because it is much cheaper and I buy supplies like paints, thinner, primer, plastic card, etc. at Grandad's. Based on what Kurt says over on TL I will most likely go with the Jordi Rubio barrel unless someone here can tell me a better one.
herberta
Joined: March 06, 2002
KitMaker: 939 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 02:48 AM UTC
Hi Adam
Aren't Kurt's comments on the M4 75mm barrel?
There are lots of options for 76mm barrels for the M-18 and 3 inch M-10.
As far as I know, the 76mm barrels for the M18 and M4 were the same. Can anyone confirm this, or state the differences?
The other choice is to model later or earlier barrels, with or without the counterweight on the end.
One possible further source of barrels are the M4A3E8 series, which also mounted the 76mm gun. All of these guns were the same AFAIK, but I could be wrong!
At any rate, the Elefant barrel is an evil piece of crappy aluminum!!
Cheers
Andy
Aren't Kurt's comments on the M4 75mm barrel?
There are lots of options for 76mm barrels for the M-18 and 3 inch M-10.
As far as I know, the 76mm barrels for the M18 and M4 were the same. Can anyone confirm this, or state the differences?
The other choice is to model later or earlier barrels, with or without the counterweight on the end.
One possible further source of barrels are the M4A3E8 series, which also mounted the 76mm gun. All of these guns were the same AFAIK, but I could be wrong!
At any rate, the Elefant barrel is an evil piece of crappy aluminum!!
Cheers
Andy
avukich
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 02:50 AM UTC
That just goes to show you how much I know about Shermans. I thought that the M4A1 had the 75mm gun. 
staff_Jim
Publisher
Joined: December 15, 2001
KitMaker: 12,571 posts
Armorama: 6,599 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 02:53 AM UTC
Adam,
I hope you don't mind but I am going to move this to the Armor forum. When the group builders start posting images of their work then by all means post them in the RRB.
May I suggest those involved use something like "Armor Group Build:" as a preface to their topic names. That will make them easier to sort.
That is until I get the new (sub)groups system working. Which should be soon.
Thanks,
Jim
I hope you don't mind but I am going to move this to the Armor forum. When the group builders start posting images of their work then by all means post them in the RRB.
May I suggest those involved use something like "Armor Group Build:" as a preface to their topic names. That will make them easier to sort.
That is until I get the new (sub)groups system working. Which should be soon.
Thanks,
Jim
avukich
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 03:04 AM UTC
Jim,
No problem.
No problem.
210cav
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 03:07 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Adam,
I hope you don't mind but I am going to move this to the Armor forum. When the group builders start posting images of their work then by all means post them in the RRB.
May I suggest those involved use something like "Armor Group Build:" as a preface to their topic names. That will make them easier to sort.
That is until I get the new (sub)groups system working. Which should be soon.
Thanks,
Jim
Adam--tell me where you are going to continue this discussion. We need a long 76mm for the M4A1.
thanks
DJ
avukich
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 03:10 AM UTC
DJ,
It will stay right here. Jim just moved this thread into Armor Talk and out of Rivet Review Board.
So who all makes long 76mm barrels for the Sherman?
It will stay right here. Jim just moved this thread into Armor Talk and out of Rivet Review Board.
So who all makes long 76mm barrels for the Sherman?
210cav
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 03:14 AM UTC
Quoted Text
DJ,
It will stay right here. Jim just moved this thread into Armor Talk and out of Rivet Review Board.
So who all makes long 76mm barrels for the Sherman?
Amigo--I just responded to your PM. Okay, I believe I am in the correct forum area now. Bob Morales said he had one and I trust he will tell us where to get them.
DJ
BlueBear
Joined: August 26, 2002
KitMaker: 414 posts
Armorama: 148 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 04:11 AM UTC
Is everyone talking about the 1/35 or 1/72 Italerie M4A1? I started the thread looking for info for my 1/72, that I have about 75% done.
Dubanka
Joined: June 29, 2002
KitMaker: 152 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 05:13 AM UTC
We're talking about the 1/35th scale model.
I'm also looking for a barrel if anyone has info
John
I'm also looking for a barrel if anyone has info
John
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 05:29 AM UTC
Quoted Text
If it's the one with the interior and radial engine, this is originally the Esci M4A1 also released by AMT/Ertl. Some came with the calliope rocket launcher.Is everyone talking about the 1/35 or 1/72 Italerie M4A1? I started the thread looking for info for my 1/72, that I have about 75% done.
herberta
Joined: March 06, 2002
KitMaker: 939 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 06:38 AM UTC
OOH boy.
Confusion is piling up.
Adam:
the M4A1 did have a 75mm gun, but the 1/35 scale Italeri kit is for a later version with the modified turret and 76mm gun.
You could swap a Tamiya or DML early turret onto the kit to make a 75mm M4A1, but then it wouldn't be out of the box. AND... you'd have to use smaller drivers' hatches (the VAST majority of pictures of m4A1 75mm tanks have smaller drivers hatches than in the Italeri kit)...AND... the running gear have early wheels, with late model upswept return rollers. Those return rollers are only on later model Shermans.
Italeri modelled their kit on a rebuilt / modified / post-war tank which had a reconstructed barrel. Normally pressed steel wheels or one of the later bogie wheel types would be seen with a large-hatched late model upswept return roller later turret 76mm Sherman. (Now THAT is a tongue/brain-twister ).
I believe I got that right, but Shermaholics may know more.
The gun tube is totally wrong, otherwise the Italeri 1/35 scale Sherman kit is representative of a relatively small number of M4A1 tanks seen after July/August 1944.
Of course, there is also the Italeri Calliope kit which is a M4A3.
AMS = aftermarket/anal/advanced modeling syndrome
Cheers
Andy
Confusion is piling up.
Adam:
the M4A1 did have a 75mm gun, but the 1/35 scale Italeri kit is for a later version with the modified turret and 76mm gun.
You could swap a Tamiya or DML early turret onto the kit to make a 75mm M4A1, but then it wouldn't be out of the box. AND... you'd have to use smaller drivers' hatches (the VAST majority of pictures of m4A1 75mm tanks have smaller drivers hatches than in the Italeri kit)...AND... the running gear have early wheels, with late model upswept return rollers. Those return rollers are only on later model Shermans.
Italeri modelled their kit on a rebuilt / modified / post-war tank which had a reconstructed barrel. Normally pressed steel wheels or one of the later bogie wheel types would be seen with a large-hatched late model upswept return roller later turret 76mm Sherman. (Now THAT is a tongue/brain-twister
).I believe I got that right, but Shermaholics may know more.
The gun tube is totally wrong, otherwise the Italeri 1/35 scale Sherman kit is representative of a relatively small number of M4A1 tanks seen after July/August 1944.
Of course, there is also the Italeri Calliope kit which is a M4A3.
AMS = aftermarket/anal/advanced modeling syndrome
Cheers
Andy
210cav
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 08:20 AM UTC
John--may I recommend that you take command here. Tell us what model, scale, and details we are going to build. I think most folks desire to build the 1/35 Italeri with the 76mm gun. Now, may I also suggest that we subset this to allow those members with other scales and desires to participate?
thanks
DJ
thanks
DJ
Dubanka
Joined: June 29, 2002
KitMaker: 152 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 10:34 AM UTC
The model that I (we) are talking about for the group build is the 1/35 scale Italeri M4A1with the 76mm gun.(I believe that it is a T-23 turret) It is the one for sale on modelexpo for 5.99 USD
Aftermarket is limited to ONLY an aluminum barrel if wanted (I hate them too) Chief did a writeup on updating the kit.
As I said before, I'm open to suggestions, I'll take charge if necessary, but I think we can work it out between all of us.
I do think that it would be most advantageous for the group build if we stuck with one model/scale.
John
Aftermarket is limited to ONLY an aluminum barrel if wanted (I hate them too) Chief did a writeup on updating the kit.
As I said before, I'm open to suggestions, I'll take charge if necessary, but I think we can work it out between all of us.
I do think that it would be most advantageous for the group build if we stuck with one model/scale.
John
210cav
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 07:20 PM UTC
Quoted Text
The model that I (we) are talking about for the group build is the 1/35 scale Italeri M4A1with the 76mm gun.(I believe that it is a T-23 turret) It is the one for sale on modelexpo for 5.99 USD
Aftermarket is limited to ONLY an aluminum barrel if wanted (I hate them too) Chief did a writeup on updating the kit.
As I said before, I'm open to suggestions, I'll take charge if necessary, but I think we can work it out between all of us.
I do think that it would be most advantageous for the group build if we stuck with one model/scale.
John
John--well, put. Let's get going on this one.
DJ
avukich
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 07:52 PM UTC
Andy,
Thanks for the clarification. I would rather build the 76mm version anyway because it looks a bit more menacing.
All right to fully clarify the model that this was meant to be:
Italeri (#225) M4A1 Sherman w/ 76mm gun with the only addition allowed for the group build being an aluminum gun barrel. Obviously, people can do any model that they want in any scale, but it wouldn't really be part of the group build now would it? :-)
Thanks for the clarification. I would rather build the 76mm version anyway because it looks a bit more menacing.
All right to fully clarify the model that this was meant to be:
Italeri (#225) M4A1 Sherman w/ 76mm gun with the only addition allowed for the group build being an aluminum gun barrel. Obviously, people can do any model that they want in any scale, but it wouldn't really be part of the group build now would it? :-)
herberta
Joined: March 06, 2002
KitMaker: 939 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 10:03 PM UTC
Hi Adam
And you know what's really funny: The box art represents a very accurate armor model that you don't get in the box! Those look like closed-spoke wheels, the gun is correct, and there look to be attachment points for the sand shields. You get the sand shields in the kit, but not the attachment point strip. That's easy to make out of plastic card, patience, a ruler and a pin to make holes. Of course that is no longer oob!!
Tamiya are guilty of the same thing for some kits, where the box art is accurate and the kit ain't!!
Cheers
Andy
And you know what's really funny: The box art represents a very accurate armor model that you don't get in the box! Those look like closed-spoke wheels, the gun is correct, and there look to be attachment points for the sand shields. You get the sand shields in the kit, but not the attachment point strip. That's easy to make out of plastic card, patience, a ruler and a pin to make holes. Of course that is no longer oob!!
Tamiya are guilty of the same thing for some kits, where the box art is accurate and the kit ain't!!
Cheers
Andy
Plasticbattle
#003
Joined: May 14, 2002
KitMaker: 9,763 posts
Armorama: 7,444 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 10:37 PM UTC
Im going to get this kit at the weekend. Is there a date for when this project should be finished by? Just wondering. I have never taken part in a group build before. 
210cav
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 10:38 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Andy,
Thanks for the clarification. I would rather build the 76mm version anyway because it looks a bit more menacing.
All right to fully clarify the model that this was meant to be:
Italeri (#225) M4A1 Sherman w/ 76mm gun with the only addition allowed for the group build being an aluminum gun barrel. Obviously, people can do any model that they want in any scale, but it wouldn't really be part of the group build now would it? :-)
Brother Adam----has anyone told you where we can get a 76mm aluminum barrel?
thanks
DJ
Chief
Joined: February 07, 2002
KitMaker: 498 posts
Armorama: 193 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 10:56 PM UTC
I purchased the barrel for the Italeri update article from The Barrel Store at this address : http://www.bentbutnotbroken.com/ It is a Jordi Rubio 76mm Part. #35032 and the money conversion comes to $9.10 US. I liked the barrel and will probably get another one for the Sherman I ordered from Model Expo. EPI, You sure we cant use indi-link tracks too? Just josshin'!HTH :-)
avukich
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 11:23 PM UTC
Quoted Text
That's easy to make out of plastic card, patience, a ruler and a pin to make holes. Of course that is no longer oob!!
That's a question that I have. Does building a model OOB mean that you can't do small scratch-building projects such as the one that Andy has mentioned to correct errors in the kit?
DJ,
I was told on TL that the Chesapeake Model Designs barrel looks nice, but that person wasn't sure how correct it is.
Kencelot
Joined: December 27, 2001
KitMaker: 4,268 posts
Armorama: 2,804 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 - 05:37 AM UTC
Hey, this guy here has some really nice brass barrels: Brass Barrels
His 76mm barrel is $8.95. Just a thought.
His 76mm barrel is $8.95. Just a thought.
210cav
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 - 07:07 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I purchased the barrel for the Italeri update article from The Barrel Store at this address : http://www.bentbutnotbroken.com/ It is a Jordi Rubio 76mm Part. #35032 and the money conversion comes to $9.10 US. I liked the barrel and will probably get another one for the Sherman I ordered from Model Expo. EPI, You sure we cant use indi-link tracks too? Just josshin'!HTH :-)
Chief--Fantastic.
Many thanks
DJ
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