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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
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Ok, now I'm a bit confused....OD Green
modelman62
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Mississippi, United States
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Posted: Sunday, March 27, 2005 - 07:27 AM UTC
Im doing the M8 Grayhound, but which of the Testors MM enamels, the Olive drab (ANA 613), or the Olive Drab FS34087 do I use?

ANy help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks


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thebear
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Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Sunday, March 27, 2005 - 07:29 AM UTC
The best Olive drab paint out there is Tamiya's add a bit of buff to it to scale it down a bit and you are good to go.

Rick
MrRoo
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Queensland, Australia
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Posted: Sunday, March 27, 2005 - 07:31 AM UTC
I do not use model master but I do use humbrol.

Humbrol 66 is the correct OD for WW2 softskins and armour so if you have a conversion chart handy this may help.
mauserman
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Maryland, United States
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Posted: Sunday, March 27, 2005 - 07:36 AM UTC
I can't remember where I read it, but the ANA 613 is supposedly the correct color. I've used both and the 613 is darker and looks more correct. At least to me anyway.
M-60-A3
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Ohio, United States
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Posted: Sunday, March 27, 2005 - 08:11 AM UTC
Hi Pat,
This is what I found in the Testor's publication, Modeler's Technical Guide.
MM enamel # 1711 - FS 34087 Olive Drab (ANA 613)
Cross reference Humbrol #155.
MM enamel # 1711 - FS 34087 Olive Drab (ANA 613)
Cross reference Tamiya XF 62.
So it looks as if the book is saying that FS 34087 and ANA 613 are the same.
Regards,
Joe
MrRoo
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Queensland, Australia
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Posted: Sunday, March 27, 2005 - 08:21 AM UTC
Humbrol #155 is NOT the correct shade of OD.
Snowhand
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Zuid-Holland, Netherlands
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Posted: Sunday, March 27, 2005 - 10:19 AM UTC
you can debate for hours and hours on what the correct OD would be, and we'd still disagree with eachother :-) :-) :-)

Fact is: we don't know what the vehicles looked like during WW2, and pictures generally give you some idea ( if you have the luxury of a color picture that is ).

Even then, different batches, different time of eposure to the elements and human factors can contribute to the fact that a vehicle could totally look different from the next, even when that was build in the same factory on the same day.

My advise: go with what looks right

Delbert
#073
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Posted: Sunday, March 27, 2005 - 11:01 AM UTC
Olive Drab history

Olive-Drab website

heres some reading material for ya.... from my reading there is no one "correct" shade of olive-drab.

personally I think you can olive drab in many shades and only a "purist" (read rivit counter) would argue whats "exact"

my last OD vehicle was a duce and I used testors 1/4 oz bottles mainly because I like the color.. I also built the M8 greyhound and I used MM Ana 613 and it came out pretty good.. my next od project will be a M10 and I'm debating between the mm 613 and the mm 34087 myself. I think both will work ok..

if you want to see how my M8 came out with the ana 613 just click my link in the signiture line..

my advice is decide what you like and go for it.

DODGE01RT
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British Columbia, Canada
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Posted: Sunday, March 27, 2005 - 04:12 PM UTC
Like has been said what makes you happy is all that counts.
As far as colour,two tanks made in the same factory even one day apart sitting side by side can be a different shade .
So pick a colour and go for it !
Martinez
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Overijssel, Netherlands
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Posted: Thursday, March 31, 2005 - 01:21 AM UTC

Quoted Text

you can debate for hours and hours on what the correct OD would be, and we'd still disagree with eachother :-) :-) :-)

Fact is: we don't know what the vehicles looked like during WW2, and pictures generally give you some idea ( if you have the luxury of a color picture that is ).

Even then, different batches, different time of eposure to the elements and human factors can contribute to the fact that a vehicle could totally look different from the next, even when that was build in the same factory on the same day.

My advise: go with what looks right




That's total bull Snowhand. We do now what the colour was like because the paint chips are still around in the archives.

Tamiya OD is the best match, but too dark for 1/35 vehicles so need toning down.
Humbrol 66 is too grey, so is not correct.
Humbroll 155 is not correct, it's too greenish in tone.

Sure, you can work the colour with washes, filters etc but the best ay to start is Tamiya's OD.
Delbert
#073
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Posted: Thursday, March 31, 2005 - 01:28 AM UTC
yep the war dept.. and army procurement had the correct paint chips....... the factorys prob had some too... make the paint.. call a batch close enough....... sent to the units.. they get it after its been stored in who knows what conditions for who knows how long........

they open the cans...... whatever shade of green it was they used unless of course someone sent off to the states for the paint chips ..."just to make sure"


INDIA11A
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Thursday, March 31, 2005 - 03:16 AM UTC
Ahhh yes the age old question. What is the right shade of OD, Panzer grey etc? Having "paint chips" is nice but wear did they come from, a factory vehicle, a repainted museum vehicle, a vehicle that sat in a compound exposed to the elements for How long? As for field vehicles its the question of wear & tear, touch up done with paint thinned with thinner, gasoline....(I have read that vehicles arriving in theater had the rubberized water proofing compounds removed and were touched up with "factory paint") I think not. I just looked at a vehicle in my compound and the "touch-ups are done in a grass green with a brush!!! And I have seen modern cam done with gloss, matt, brush, roller and sprayed! The variance in peace time is amazing so think about prolonged combat and the pressure to repair those OD monsters. For afactory or a VE day parade vehicle (waxed of course) be exact, for a war weary vehicle no.
Deusmex
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Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: February 27, 2005
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Posted: Thursday, March 31, 2005 - 03:27 AM UTC
I use Games Workshop Catachan Green. Its green and looks like OD.Ive used it now on 3 diferent subjects a WWII daimler scout car a WWII SAS jeep and a modern japanese lav.It looks diferent on all 3 vehicles because of how I weathered and dry brushed each , despite coming from the same pot of paint.I like how each one turned out. I can make each one look diferent again by photographing them in diferent light too.The point is if it look right then its good enough. Find a type of paint you like using then find a colour thats close enough. Then have fun and dont worry about it.
Probuilder
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Colorado, United States
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Posted: Thursday, March 31, 2005 - 06:10 AM UTC
OK! Enough already, let's use some common sense skills here shall we.

War Dept. says "And YE shall make it OD GREEN" Fine, no problem.

Now. Vehicle plant in Calif. gets OD green form thier local Gov supplier. He has one formula

Vehicle plant in Mich gets OD green from thier local Gov supplier. He has another Formula

Vehicle plant in Alabama gets OD green from thier local Gov supplier. They have yet another formula

Now self same "local goverment supplier" also supplies OD green to the AAF which want thiers a different shade of OD green. and the Marine Corp has thier particular color pref

Start to see a pattern??? Suppliers made OD green but whose OD green is a complete Crap shoot!

You can always count on the Goverment to get it wrong and private industry to get it right as they see it.

Now!!! Drinks all around
DaveCox
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Posted: Thursday, March 31, 2005 - 06:15 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I use Games Workshop Catachan Green. Its green and looks like OD..



This is my favourite too. Especially for British & Commonwealth vehicles. Most of my later models have been painted with this with no adverse comment.
Snowhand
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Zuid-Holland, Netherlands
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Posted: Thursday, March 31, 2005 - 08:02 AM UTC

Quoted Text

yep the war dept.. and army procurement had the correct paint chips....... the factorys prob had some too... make the paint.. call a batch close enough....... sent to the units.. they get it after its been stored in who knows what conditions for who knows how long........

they open the cans...... whatever shade of green it was they used unless of course someone sent off to the states for the paint chips ..."just to make sure"





And off course, manufacturor A compared their batch in direct sunlight, while manufacturor B did their comparisons in a badly lit office, or a TL lit lab.

See I told yo, we could debate this for hours :-)
c6o
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New York, United States
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Posted: Friday, April 01, 2005 - 03:30 AM UTC
good am,
glad to know that the manu. is to blame for different shades of od reaching the field...the gi takes the can of od and what will he use for thinner-what do you think this gi will use or look for...paint thinner or what's on hand like mogas.
using mogas or thinner will change the shade and for good measure i might even want to add a little bit of gloss black-od with a bit of gloss black makes that jeep sure look pretty.
cheers
carpe diem
Martinez
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Overijssel, Netherlands
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Posted: Sunday, April 03, 2005 - 11:55 PM UTC

Quoted Text

War Dept. says "And YE shall make it OD GREEN" Fine, no problem.

Now. Vehicle plant in Calif. gets OD green form thier local Gov supplier. He has one formula

Vehicle plant in Mich gets OD green from thier local Gov supplier. He has another Formula

Vehicle plant in Alabama gets OD green from thier local Gov supplier. They have yet another formula

Now self same "local goverment supplier" also supplies OD green to the AAF which want thiers a different shade of OD green. and the Marine Corp has thier particular color pref



Several formulas for one colour? What are you thinking man? There was one formula for OD, which by the is not a green, grey, yellow or whatever colour. The colour is OD.
The whole matter is complicated because of different formulations issued over the years. In the inter-war years, vehicles were painted OD. The paint was supposed to be OD but the shade differed greatly. In 1920, US Army started to standardize. They made a list of specs for the colour, and this was issued to manufacturers. The paint resulting from this was prone to scruffing and wear. Therefore, the Army started to investigate in an enamel paint which would be more resistant.
During the war, vehicles were painted in the same OD as the pre-war vehicles. Pre-war equipment tends to look more dark than the wartime AFVs because of the gloss finish. Formula and specs are the same though. Post-war, evaluation and investigation continued, resulting in several paint chips. All have the same name FS 34087, but it depends on the timeframe what shade you need.
For wartime vehicles, the best colour for models is Tamiya's XF62 OD. Polyscale is a distant second one. Other colour simply do not match.
Darktrooper
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Delaware, United States
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Posted: Monday, April 04, 2005 - 02:55 AM UTC
I say go with whatever color comes closest that you hobby store has available.

Paint shades vary because the formula is different. one manufacturer may have added a bit too much green, where as another may have had not enough. During the war, they may not have had the luxury of making the exact color OD.
DaveCox
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England - South East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Monday, April 04, 2005 - 04:53 AM UTC

Quoted Text

one manufacturer may have added a bit too much green, where as another may have had not enough. During the war, they may not have had the luxury of making the exact color OD.



According to an article in Military Modelling some time ago which sought to put this argument to rest, Steve Zaloga came to the conclusion that the Tamiya paint is the closest straight out of the bottle, It just needs some desert yellow or similar added to fade it.
In the same article it also stated that OD is not actually a green - it was mixed from black & yellow ochre!
blaster76
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Posted: Monday, April 04, 2005 - 07:35 AM UTC
Don't forget to throw the "modern" variation of OD into the mix. I vary my OD using the MM version, and Testors MM Green drab and mixes there of. I lived on tanks for three years, all you rivet counters and guys that look at your little picture books, call others names, and argue points, well I won't get ugly here. But emphatically yes there are variations in shades from one can to the next. And I'll guarantee you you will find variations in batches of the Tamiya, HUmbrol, and MOdel Masters paints as well.
Sabot
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Posted: Monday, April 04, 2005 - 07:43 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I lived on tanks for three years, all you rivet counters and guys that look at your little picture books, call others names, and argue points, well I won't get ugly here. But emphatically yes there are variations in shades from one can to the next.

LOL, say it isn't so Steve. Next you will be telling these guys that the 19 year old kids painting the tanks (after duty hours because they are on the First Sergeant's poo-poo list) didn't do it with the utmost care and pride.
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Posted: Monday, April 04, 2005 - 07:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Don't forget to throw the "modern" variation of OD into the mix.



You mean the super dark "black-OD" that everything on display at Ft. Knox is painted in?

JPTRR
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RAILROAD MODELING
#051
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Posted: Monday, April 04, 2005 - 08:15 AM UTC
Hi Guys,

Haven't read all the posts yet, looking forward to these, now my input....

In a Military Modeling magazine of a few years ago, Steve Zogala (spelling?) wrote an article on US OD. He cited sources living and archival. In it he said he wrote about US dark green on WWII AFVs years before, and that he was wrong--it didn't exist. But to the point, he included a matrix of all the various ODs out there and wrote how they compared to USA's, Smithsonnian, etc., samples of WWII OD:

Model Master's FS34807 is THE closest match in his research.

Tamiya's OD is the best match for post-war OD. He nmoterds that at, or shortly after, the end of WWII in Europe, USA went to a different, darker OD.

USAAF OD was darker than AFV OD.

Unfortunately, I do not have the article in front of me.

Pardon the typos--in a hurry...
Martinez
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Overijssel, Netherlands
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Posted: Monday, April 04, 2005 - 10:34 AM UTC

Quoted Text

In a Military Modeling magazine of a few years ago, Steve Zogala (spelling?) wrote an article on US OD. He cited sources living and archival. In it he said he wrote about US dark green on WWII AFVs years before, and that he was wrong--it didn't exist. But to the point, he included a matrix of all the various ODs out there and wrote how they compared to USA's, Smithsonnian, etc., samples of WWII OD:

Model Master's FS34807 is THE closest match in his research.

Tamiya's OD is the best match for post-war OD.



I do have the article and Steve did NOT note that the MM colour was the best for an WW2 UA AFV model. Tamiya XF62 is the best match for the official wartime paint chip, if painted on a full size vehicle. On a 1:35 kit, it does look too dark so needs lightening, with either buff or dark yellow. Since OD is simply a mix of several colours (and not a green, as noted before), dark yellow is a good choice.

For the record, the British Shade No 19, which was issued to delethe the need to repaint LendLease US vehicles, faded more towards a greenish shade. US OD faded more toward a green/grey. Might be worth noting when painting your models.
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