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Armor/AFV: Modern - USA
Modern Armor, AFVs, and Support vehicles.
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OIF
AngryDog
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Posted: Monday, April 18, 2005 - 03:15 AM UTC
Hey guys,

I'm back again asking questions...

2 topics here

1st one I need info on those commecial drinking water boxes...which I want to buy for my M1s in progress :

I know that both Extra Details and Alexander the Great Models makes these "water boxes"
Heard of "Gulfa" & "Furat", but notice that "Gulfa" version is different by both companies?
Which is appropriate or more widely distributed?

I've never seen "Furat" on any vehicals in Iraq?

Since I'm in Singapore... any advice on which online company I can order from?


2nd topic I am working on developing AM parts and assesories for US vehicals (OIF)

What are the brands/ types of "drinking water" and "food rations" that are supplied to the Coalition and Nato forces in Iraq?
Can someone give a brief review/accuracy on these items that have been produced by Tamiya and other AM companies?

Is there anything (water/food) related that has not been produced?

Would bottles/or boxes of soda or beer be something seen in or on OIF vehicals???

Thus..I want to include (water/food) boxes,etc into the OIF AM sets I'm developing...and I need original photos,etc to create my own from scratch (even if the product is already in the AM market..reason being--not gonna copy someone's hardwork)

..So if anyone would like to help contribute with references, pictures, info , or advise to this cause will be most welcome, appreciated and remembered..!!!

Thanks in advance
Nick
Urutu
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Posted: Monday, April 18, 2005 - 03:43 AM UTC
Hello Nick!

I'll send you an e-mail . I think I can help you

Bye,

Marcelo
AngryDog
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Posted: Monday, April 18, 2005 - 03:51 AM UTC
Thanks I'll check out arcurate armor!

Looking forward to your email Marcelo thanks!

You can also write me at [email protected]

or [email protected]
HeavyArty
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Posted: Monday, April 18, 2005 - 06:12 AM UTC
For MRE boxes, the newer version (as of about '95) are more squere, as opposed to the flatter ones from ODS time frame. The ones in the new Tamiya Moderm US Equipment Set, as well as in the new DML M1A1HC, USMC Baghdad, 2003 kit are correct.
They look like this:


For water cases, the ones we had were Gulfa, Masafi and Rawdatain, in a cardboard brown box with red writing. The Gulfa and Masafi are available from someone and are accurate.

Here is how the actual boxes look:

Masafi box:

Gulfa box looks like this on two sides with white on the other two with ble stripe on bottom, reddeish stripe on top, just like here:

Rawdatain bottle:


Gulfa bottle:


Coke, Pepsi, etc. were carried, but not cases of beer, that is a big no no. You can look under the Diorama Features section here at Armorama for my home-made soda cases.

We never really carried any other, commercial style food boxes on vehicles. The only exception may be supply trucks, which could have some local fruit boxes and other foodstuffs.
ptruhe
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Posted: Monday, April 18, 2005 - 06:32 AM UTC
Does anyone make a 1/35 British 24 hour ration box?

Paul
18Bravo
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Posted: Monday, April 18, 2005 - 07:51 AM UTC
Are you interested in OEF at all? If so, in Afghanistan we used Emirates bottled water. I still have two of the boxes I want to photograph, as I finally purchaed a better digital camera. The plan is to photograph the box, print it out, and flod it together . Preliminary attempts with print film looked good, but took too long to scale. Digitally ought to be much faster. Let me know...
As for beer and soda, we were supplied with a lot of Pepsi and Snapple. Pepsi was also in the shorter cans for the Afghan troops.
Alcohol was naturally prohibited (I say naturally because our BC was a Mormon) but we operated under the "big boy rules." Hence, we purchased, or in many cases were flat out given beer by the Germans and Brits. The most popular were Paulaner, Schulteiss, and Foster's. I can try to take a photo of a photo of my stash. It was the only thing larger than my ammo stash.
Urutu
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Posted: Monday, April 18, 2005 - 11:07 AM UTC
Nick, e-mail sent. Tell me if you got it.

Bye,

Marcelo
AngryDog
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Posted: Monday, April 18, 2005 - 02:41 PM UTC
Sorry for the late reply, time difference..

Didn't realise there were so many types used!

Marcelo THANKS! I got it!, excellent I'll be using them on my 6 M1s. WIll also be using the pic to make my own OK?

Hey again Gino Thanks, do you have more pics of "Masafi and Rawdatain"?

What sizes are water bottles distributed in? I saw on Gulfa's website they're so many sizes including those "glass/cup" types...are these supplied to the forces?

Any tips on the "local fruit boxes and other foodstuffs"?

Regarding your coke and pepsi boxes do you have the dimensions of the boxes, also are those representing "imports" on made in the gulf- which would be correct ?

18Bravo Yes I'm interested in OEF. WHen were you there and what unit were you in?( I've a family member working in Jalalabad, Afghanistan but pics of US,etc forces are a but no no..really too bad..otherwise I'll have some real good reference pics)

Please send me the Emirates pics, do you also have any pics or info on the distributors of those Pepsi & Snapple as well as beer -Paulaner, Schulteiss, and Foster's.

Quoted Text

Pepsi was also in the shorter cans for the Afghan troops
. Were they also distributed to "ferengi" troops?

I'll use the pics and edit with photoshop then print.


HeavyArty
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Posted: Monday, April 18, 2005 - 03:03 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hey again Gino Thanks,

Do you have more pics of "Masafi and Rawdatain"?


Nope, I got those off the web.


Quoted Text

What sizes are water bottles distributed in? I saw on Gulfa's website they're so many sizes including those "glass/cup" types...are these supplied to the forces?


It varied. We usually had the large 1.5 litre bottle and sometimes the smaller 1 litres as well. We even got the .5 litre bottles one time too. Most Academy modern kits, new Tamiya kits, and some AM resin companies have the common 1.5 litre bottles. The Academy ones are what I use, then I add my own labels cut from the paper boxes, or printed on decal paper.


Quoted Text

Any tips on the "local fruit boxes and other foodstuffs"?


No, you could do a google search for Arab or Iraqi fruit boxes or Arab or Iraqi food boxes, something along those lines.


Quoted Text

Regarding your coke and pepsi boxes do you have the dimensions of the boxes, also are those representing "imports" on made in the gulf- which would be correct ?


They are domestic (US) boxes taken again from the web. That is mainly what we had there though. Most soldiers shop at the PXs on the base camps, which carry mostly US products.
Frenchy
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Posted: Monday, April 18, 2005 - 07:30 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Any tips on the "local fruit boxes and other foodstuffs"?


Hi Nick

Extra Details has released 2 sets of local fruits boxes (#ED208 & ED209):



Both are for bananas boxes (for monkey business ? )

Frenchy
greatbrit
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Posted: Monday, April 18, 2005 - 08:15 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Does anyone make a 1/35 British 24 hour ration box?

Paul


nope but i can get you as many pics of the boxes and contents as you want

they would be a good idea for an aftermarket set, no one else makes them!

regards

joe
AngryDog
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Posted: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 04:27 AM UTC
THANKS Gino, now I know there's quite a few brands of water to come out with!
Can you point me to the website where you got your soda pics from?
I hope to carry on on this post until I have substancial info & pics of the many water & ration boxes..

I have enough to start designing Gulfa & Nouva
through Urutu / Marcelo's help ad well as the pics I got from their sites.

So far I've learned that in OIF there's Gulfa, Furat, Nouva, Masafi and Rawdatain as well as some different sizes and designs for them.
And Coke,Pepsi, what other sodas??
Hmmm still no beer??

In OEF there's Emirates and I know the UN gets Nestle, not sure if the Forces use them too..18bravo can you help here?

And there's Pepsi and Snapple, as well as beer : Paulaner, Schulteiss, and Foster's (18bravo, those are crates/cans right?)

{b]Frenchy[/b] thanks I'll be checking out what other fruit boxes are supplied aside for monkey business.

Guys, anyone has photos and info of MREs - sealed and opened, how many to a box?
What about eating utencils,drinking cups,etc?
Anything I need to know about eating in the field?





My own quote:

Quoted Text

What are the brands/ types of "drinking water" and "food rations" that are supplied to the Coalition and Nato forces in Iraq?



Quoted Text

nope but i can get you as many pics of the boxes and contents as you want

they would be a good idea for an aftermarket set, no one else makes them!


Hey Joe, please count me in, I'm very interested in those British 24 hour ration boxes and their contents, would be excellent if I could get into that resource too!

HeavyArty
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Posted: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 05:21 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Can you point me to the website where you got your soda pics from? And Coke,Pepsi, what other sodas??
Hmmm still no beer??



You name just about any brand of American soda, and the PX carries it. I just did google image searches for each brand I wanted and found them, resized or cropped in photoshop, and used them to build by boxes. I didn't use any specific website. Go to my article and there is a link to a printable version that has the full sheet of different soda boxes already made.

Alcohol is prohibited in Iraq by US Military. PX doesn't sell it. There are local Iraqi liquer stores, but they are off limits. Not saying Soldiers don't or can't get it, it just wouldn't be on a vehicle or out in the open.
AngryDog
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Posted: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 05:25 AM UTC
OK Gino thanks wil do..must sleep now ..

Nick
Frenchy
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Posted: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 06:30 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Guys, anyone has photos and info of MREs - sealed and opened, how many to a box?
What about eating utencils,drinking cups,etc?
Anything I need to know about eating in the field?


Nick
Maybe you'll find useful informations here http://www.mreinfo.com/mres.html or here http://www.jttk.zaq.ne.jp/baboj700/Ration_MRE_History.html

"Bon appétit !"

Frenchy
HeavyArty
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Posted: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 08:49 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Guys, anyone has photos and info of MREs - sealed and opened, how many to a box?
What about eating utencils,drinking cups,etc?


Missed the above. In each box of MREs are 12 bags that contain one meal each. There are about 30 different meals out there packed in a couple different varieties so you don't always have the same 12 to choose from.

Here is how each meal bag looks:


In each bag is another group of bags that contain a main dish, a couple side dishes, seasoning pack a desert, and a large, brown plastic spoon. They can be seen here:


Also, each contains a water-activated heater as well.


No cups out there, you drink from your canteen or a metal canteen cup.


This is the modern, square MRE box, from about '95 to present.



This is the older, flatter style, from Operation Desert storm and earlier.


Also, the older style had dark brown (chocolate colored) individual meal bags inside the box.


There are also yellow bagged Humanitarian rations that we hand out as well.

Check out Frenchy's link for more option. There are also Arctic meals, LRRP meals, T-rations (which are large pans that you heat in water for a squade, UGRAs (which are boxes of meals that have everything to feed a PLT of 30), etc, etc...
Burik
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Posted: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 08:56 AM UTC
I'd love to have MRE bags. I'm tired of just depicting the boxes. Of course, if I tried, I suppose I could scratch those bags, but if the AM part was reasonably priced why bother?

Bob
AngryDog
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Posted: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 03:24 PM UTC
Thanks guys, those are gonna be some tiny work, MRE bags would probably be tiny resin bits, and those individual meals, desert,etc, not sure yet, maybe just various thickness of card.. But the canteen & spoon would be interesting to do in photoetch..

Please advise if there's anything else I should know or didn't ask about "water and food rations", utencils, wash facilities(vehical-based of course..how do crew,troops clean up when they're out of base?)

I want to provide a comprehensive set of items based on all the topics I've posted.

Many thanks...

GreatBrit and 18Bravo looking forward to your replies.
HeavyArty
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Posted: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 03:58 PM UTC

Quoted Text

wash facilities(vehical-based of course..how do crew,troops clean up when they're out of base?)


There are no vehicle-based wash facilities. You carry a bucket or wash basin for shaving, or you use a second canteen cup (be careful not to mix them up, umm, soapy coffee). To shower, you either have a buddy hold a jerry can of water and pour it over you, or you get a camp shower or Australian shower.
It si about 12" wide and 18" tall, holds about 4 gallons of water, heated by the sun.

AngryDog
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Posted: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 04:47 PM UTC
Those buckets, wash basins are they metal or plastic?

How many camp or australian showers would the crew carry for the M1, M2, AMTRACKS, M113s, Humvees,etc? What about the troops ?

Is there a website where I can find photos or info on such stuff like quantity/variety of camp showers, personal gear, mission gear, chairs, ammo,etc depicted for each vehicals before they are fully loaded up for Iraq?
HeavyArty
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Posted: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 04:59 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Those buckets, wash basins are they metal or plastic?

How many camp or australian showers would the crew carry for the M1, M2, AMTRACKS, M113s, Humvees,etc? What about the troops ?

Is there a website where I can find photos or info on such stuff like quantity/variety of camp showers, personal gear, mission gear, chairs, ammo,etc depicted for each vehicals before they are fully loaded up for Iraq?


All the above items, with the exception of ammo, kinda, is up to the individual soldier or crew. Basins can be plastic or metal. They are not issued, but personal items. Same for camp showers, etc.

On the ammo, a combat load is internal for a vehicle, it is planned out and every nook and cranny that can hold ammo or other gear is filled. Everything has its place. It is called a load plan. The ammo that you see on the outside of vehicles is extra that the crew was issued or acquired. On my HMMWV in OIF, 3ID, I had about 5 ammo cans (500 rounds each) of M-16 ammo for me and my driver, a case of grenades, 2 AT-4, and about 1000 rounds of 9 mm ammo. I was a commander and carried one of the lightest ammo loads in my Battery. We were only authorized a combat load of 210 rounds each for my and my driver's M16s and 45 rounds for my 9mm.
AngryDog
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Posted: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 05:18 PM UTC
WOW THAT'S ALOT OF AMMO, so looks like I've to increase quantity of anything ammo related, and come up with various custom stuff, including double sets of canteens!

I hope my sets will please modellers, as I should think aside from providing what's not available in the market..as well as providing personal items like photoetch shavers,canteens and dogtags,etc
What do you all think?

One almost final thing ..I'm thinking of including magazines like Time, and FHM....What informative or Men's mags are mostly brought/most read(or drooled over) by US troops in Iraq?

How about cameras?
HeavyArty
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Posted: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 05:26 PM UTC

Quoted Text

One almost final thing ..I'm thinking of including magazines like Time, and FHM....What informative or Men's mags are mostly brought/most read(or drooled over) by US troops in Iraq?


All sorts of mags are bought by Soldiers. The most common among the younger guys (since Playboy, Penthouse, and the rest of the traditional FMs (Field Manuals or F*&@ Mags) are frowned upon, are ones like Maxim, Stuff, FHM, etc. The racy, but not necessarily pornographic ones. Car and motorcycle mags and Sports Illustrated are always popular too.


Quoted Text

How about cameras?

Most every soldier has a camera of some type. From the latest digital camera to the basic paper box disposable are out there and everything in between.

The rest of your items sound great. Hope you get them off the ground. Good luck.
AngryDog
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Posted: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 05:31 PM UTC
THANKS FOR YOUR RESPONSE. I HAVE TO GET THEM OFF THE GROUND ! JUST HOPE TO DO SO IN THE TIME FRAME I PLAN!

PLAYBOY,ETC FROWNED UPON!?!...BUT IT'S ERRR ART...HEHEH
 _GOTOTOP