I read somewhere that says tank crew uniforms were changed from black to green with camouflage patterns during the later part of the war.

Now i'm asking: what kind of camouflage pattern?

I'm going to paint a tank crew to man my King Tiger.

This is a site with all kinds of information about uniforms:

http://www.angelfire.com/sk2/germanuniforms/

As they state, the reversible coats issued usually had army splinter pattern on one side. Other uniforms with camouflage patterns were usually made to personal order (in the book on Schwere Panzerjaeger Abteilung 654 is an example). And these could be all kinds of patterns (including pea and oakleaf). Supposedly they were made from Zeltbahn-fabric (tent?).

The green tank/uniforms were not issued to tanktroops. According to the site mentioned above was fieldgreen worn by:

Panzerjaeger (Hornisse, Marder, Jagdpanther etc). From 1942 onwards. Before that time they had the black Panzer-uniforms. In 1944 came new regulations concerning the piping/waffenfarbe worn. Also, some had, depending on their attachment, their black panzer-uniform again from that time.

Assault artillery (Stugs). Fieldgreen version of the tank-uniform from 1940 onwards. In this section the site gives also an example of the mess in uniforms (10 men, a number of them not wearing regulation uniforms).

Sefl-propelled artillery: an even bigger mess. Late in the war they wore all kinds of versions of the panzer-tunics as well.

For Waffen-SS crews things would be different again.

I hope this helps a little. But be certain to check that site out!



Cheers,

Harm

Hi Harm, not sure what site that info came from, but I wouldn't take it to heart, ..... Actually the1st & 2nd pattern reed-green denim panzerjacke was worn by panzer crews. It could be worn over the black panzer feldjacke in the winter months or by itself in the warmer weather.
... It was also issued to Stug crews of the
sturmartillerie ( assault-artillerie ) and self-propelled panzerjager &panzerartillerie crews. The Stug and SP crews also could wear the reed-green jacket in the same mannner over
their sturmartillerie jacket which was the fieldgray version of the 2nd pattern black panzer feldjacke.

Wehrmacht & Waffen SS uniforms is a very intriguing, time consuming and sometimes confusing issue. I really like to say more on this but I'm on a public library cpu and there closing up. Maybe I'll be back tomorrow, if any question surface from this. I'll also double check my info when I get home to my books.

Also field-green doesn't not exist ..... it's "Fieldgray" or in German ...... Feldgrau !



- ralph

Hi Danny, which panzer crews do you mean .... Waffen SS or Wehrmacht. ? There's a difference in both the cut of the jacket and the camo pattern

Danny,
I think that if you look at the majority of pictures concerning crews and soldiers in general you will see a very diversified set of uniforms. It appears that the crews used and took what was available and probably more importantly comfortable and effective. While alot of SS units seemed to use the pea pattern, I have seen heer units with reed green, black and Italian camo. Just take a look at some of the box art by R. Volstad for Dragon and you will see what I mean. I don't think anyone could correctly look at your painted figures and say, that is not correct or appropriate for that crew. Unless you are modeling a specific crew that is well documented like Carius or Whittman for example. So be adventerous and paint them in differnet styles.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Robert

Ralph,

you are right... ugh... thanks for the corrections. O yeah.. remind me to not post anymore when tired.
Maybe one day I'll have the money to spend on a good reference. Now I have already spent it on others...

Thanks for the info,

Harm

Anyone wishing to get a good reference for German uniforms needs this book..........
. It is a gold mine of information.

Patrick

Hi,

I'm doing a Wehrmacht one. I guess i'll paint him fieldgray then. Simplest to paint, since i'm only a starter in figures!

Thanks for the feedback guys!

If he's wearing the double breasted panzer uniform, do not paint him field grey! The reed green denims had a large prominent pocket on the left breast, which will be noticeable. If the figure doesn't have this paint him in black, even at the end of the war, Heer panzer units were still using the black clothing. There doesn't seem to have been any widespread issue of camouflaged clothing to army crews except the winter clothing. Photos taken during the occupation of Budapest, involving panzer division "Ferrenhalle" (sp!) show the crews of King Tigers in black.
In the SS, the panzer clothing was issued in a herringbone twill cloth with the "pea" pattern printed on. It was not reversible.

Danny and anyone else interested,
Probably the best book I own on German camouflage is


ISBN: 0887408036

A present from my wife a few years ago, if you are interested in painting German camouflage, this book has all the patterns in it, excellent and large pictures of the orignals and some fantastic reproductions. Of all the books on uniforms this one is used the most.
Regards,
Robert

That's some book Robert! Wish I could get my hands on a copy, I'm still using "Ss Uniforms in Colour" based on the collection of "Ulrich of England", written by 2 Italian sounding guys (can't remember their names!).

Hello guys,

Since i know nuts about what you guys are talking about, so i decided to post a picture, since 'a picture says a thousand words'



I know that the guy on the right needs to be painted black but what about the one on the left?

Thanks guys for your advices, i really appreciate them.

Hi Danny, the figure on the left wears the "standard field service uniform" and should be painted in "fieldgrey", unless yoy plan to make him a soldier of the Afrika Korp or Mediterranean Front ( Italy )which would be the tropical color uniform.

The panzer crewman on the right wears the Waffen SS version of the panzer jacket. You can tell the difference from the Army ( Heer ) version by the front cut.
... The SS jacket front panel closure is vertical, while the Army's has a distinct slanting front .

ralph

Hi Harm, please don't think I was trying to steal your thunder, i just hate ref site where they give innocent modelers bogus information.

Actually the reed-green denim jackets were produced in 1941 for german armored car crews. The order specified that it was ONLY to be worn by these crews, but both the 1st pattern reed-green jacket & the 2nd pattern reed-green jacket produced in 1942 ( with the oversized breast pocket eventually made there way to the panzer , sturmartillerie, SP crews and even some infantry units.

- ralph

Well Danny now you now what colours to use i wish you good paint job, and don't forget to dry brush the figure's slightly, you can do this whit a flat brush and a little white oil paint. Succfes
ERIC

Danny,
The guy on the left I remember well from the Tamiya Panzerjager IV & the Stug IV, he appears in both, & he's an odd figure in some ways, a real scruff! I think he's meant to be an SS man, as he is wearing the late design field jacket (no scallops on pockets, & no box pleats), which on the box art was painted in "pea" pattern SS camo, but it could be painted field grey I suppose. He's wearing panzer trousers (note the pockets & baggy bottoms), so these could be black or camo, your choice, but since you're modelling an army unit, black seems OK. The only thing is it's an unusual combination (classed as "mixed dress" in the British army for which you can be put on a charge!), & I'm not quite sure where they got the idea from.

Once again, thanks guys for the information!