i need some basic specs and ideas for a pillbox used as part of germanys atlantic wall for a d-day diorama

most likely a basic box with an mg mounted and a crew inside

looking to make this from scratch with styrofoam and plaster covering

You probably answered your own question right there. Just use 4 side with top and bottom. That is probably the most basic of the concrete bunkers.

If you can get to a Verlinden website they sell plaster or resin bunkers. You don't need to buy any but you can look at the pics.

I think the link is http://www.verlinden-productions.com//

Josh, this is a pic. from a book FORTRESS EUROPE by J.E. KAUFMANN and R.M. JURGA. There is a copyright mark on the page.
I highly recommend this book to all interested in bunkers and fortresses in Europe. There are pics. maps, cut-away views and excellent info. Cheyenne

going with the basic box design, and having it built into the hill/cliff, would a top entrance (round hole with ladder) be plausible?

btw -

here are the pics of the box so far, still needs sanded and spackled before painting, but the shape is there








bout 6 inches high there in the front

Top entrance is what you would see. When you go to place this bunker into the dio, carve out the base where you want it so you can drop it in there. Its much easier that way, and you wont have to cut it to fit the angle of the hill.

BTW, the type of bunker that was made for machine guns thats your making is really rare to see. I think they made only 2 of them and that was at Charlie Sector. Usually the germans hid in trenches looking down the beach. They also had alot of sandbag bunkers. Just some history for ya.

But a while off the beach they had a very large amount of concret bunkers holding artillary guns.

ok, what would you suggest then as to what should be placed inside such as artillary, mg, troops, any living areas (table, whatnot)

also, this top hole would be placed slightly off center, or does it even matter?

What about this one :


It's a "Ringstand" bunker which was fitted with a MG on the top like the one below :



This is a 1/72 kit that has been released by a french company called PN-Sud Modelisme. The length is 7,5 cm, the width is 5 cm and the heigth is 4,5 cm. You can have a look on their website for pics of many bunker variants (all the kits are based on actual "Atlantik Wall" bunkers).
http://www.pnsudmodelisme.com

Frenchy

yeah, that looks good


im gonna finish up the one i have here while sarting on that one.

i might also throw in a sandbag mg nest

Well as it shows in the pictures, those were the ones with the MG's in them. The one that your trying to build which will be placed right off the beach is also going to have to be held by MGers. You cant put artillary in the ones right off the beachhead because they were put a little ways back. When you get up the beach, you will see alot of trenches. You will see mortar positions that are dug in and sand bag bunkers, and maybe those bunkers that you are building. Then when you go farther back you will see some of the artillary bunkers. Then even farther back youll see some of the Morsar Karl guns on the railroad.

after about 30 minutes of cutting and glueing...



heres that bunker, still needs a lot of sanding and spackle work but its a start, tell me what you think

This one looks nice, but keep in mind that most Atlantic-Wall bunkers were standarized buildings, which means they were all built after the same plans, so a "free-style" bunker is not very close to reality.

Ekke, this bunker was made off a real one. He didnt just make it up.

Tom here you can find some pics and a drawing of a "Ringstand" bunker (a.k.a. "Tobruk" bunker). There were in fact several variants based on the same design...
http://www.luftschutz-bunker.de/images/nl_2003/olmen/tobruk.htm

If you need some info about markings or camo, you can also have a look here :
http://home.hetnet.nl/~thirdreich-bunkers/welcome1.htm

HTH
Frenchy

Yeah sorry I was talking about the first one he showed us and since I've never seen that kind of bunker before I thought it's fictitious.

I have been doing some bunkers based on those PNModelisme kits. I used cork and styrofoam that was covered with 2 types of plaster. Here are my attempts:









Here are some links I found usefull:

http://site.voila.fr/bunkers

http://fesma.free.fr/index2.html

http://community.webshots.com/album/62889134LEFPmU

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=54415&highlight=

Ola Josh and all the others interested

Go to this site
http://www.bunkersite.com/

Go to plans and subscribe there. It will give you a password and login name send to your E-mail addy. Here you will find loads and loads of plans of bunkers often complete with dimensions.

I hope this is of some use.

Ciao Josh,
I took some pictures of pillboxes and even a block house in Sicily. Now, these were built in 1942/3, but the design is probably similiar to any German pillbox built during the War.



This is a German Stronghouse built on a hill overlooking the Plain of Catania. This is as close as I could get since the field is now surrounded by Blood Orange trees. I have seen the inside years before, and it has a mounting ring in the floor, so I am assuming that this was a gun emplacement for an 88mm or 105mm. The upper level must have had a scaffolding for observers since there is no upper floor left. The top would have been covered with dirt and grass (to blend in with surroundings.)



This is a German pillbox looking north of the aforementioned stronghouse. It is much smaller and held a machine gun and observers (3 personnel, I think.) It has what appears to be a cistern for catching water just up the hill with a vent (perhaps for any below ground rooms/tunnels), and it has a commanding view of the fields for miles. Again, it would have been covered with the ambient terrain.



This is (I'm almost certain) an Italian pillbox, possibly of World War I vintage. It is all hardened steel, and rotating armored view slots. It overlooks the Ionian sea, and it is actually hard to spot due to its low profile. I have to believe that it was painted in the festive colors for tourists.

Also, I found out that locals were procured to build the German fortifications, while the Italians built their own. Anyway, since the Germans were not liked (even hated my many) the locals had a nasty habit of dumping sugar into the concrete mix. For some reason, the chemical reaction weakened the concrete considerably. They didn't feel bad about it since the Germans were not keen to share with the Italians.

I have a couple of more pictures of the above, if you would like them. Good luck and I hope it helps.
Ciao for now
Rob

Francisco:

Those are really nice bunkers you're scratchbuilding. Including the little fig for scale, in my view, really helps a lot.

the first pillbox is an actual pillbox trust me I may be only 13 but the game designers of call of duty finest hour got the biggest WW2 historians to make sure the game was true to what things looked back then.

I know what you're talking about Luke!

When I'm playing that game with roomates, I pause it constantly because I'm so amazed at the detail. When they are talking to a character, even have the German ranks on the uniforms right! Real impressive all around.

- Steve

Wow that dio image by Frenchy is amazing! Love the way the bunkers were done. I wonder if that was made using styrene as well.

steve your are right the ranks are correct they use acual pictures and and I think they used veteran knowledge for it

I wouldn't use any computer game as a modeling referance. As real as you think it may look, I doubt it actually is. Stick to actual referance books and referance web sites for actual examples.

I have to agree with Gino on this. It may look realistic but the game designers may have taken some "liberties" with it.

I think the one thing game designers make up when they are designing these bunkers are the ones that go all the way down a cliff, with the opening at the top. I've been to Normandy four times, read a few accounts of the action there, and looked at countless photos of the area, and not once have I seen or read about bunkers that go right down a cliff. There are several standard types of bunker, but as far as I am aware this is not one of them.

Anyway, some common ones:
standard Anti-tank emplacement (this one overlooks an exit from Omaha, and is now a memorial to the 467th AAA unit, I think)


Artillry casemate (Part of the Longues battery, but others, especially around Pointe du hoc, are very similar. I think these house old 75mm french guns.)


This is an MG 'Tobruk' emplacement. These were often underground except for the MG opening. The MG on the in the top usually be the only weapon, but there were other versions to house things such as mortars, 37mm guns and 88s. It is also common to find this sort of MG position on top of much larger bunkers for anti infantry defense.


Inside the bunkers, they had several days worth of ammunition, food, water etc. The larger ones had sleeping quarters, command rooms, radio rooms etc. As for the people inside the bunkers, there would usually have been one German NCO in command, and the rest foreign conscripts captured from the eastern front or German 'invalids' with a limb missing or something.

Anyway, from what I've seen of Normandy, those are by far the three most common bunkers. Sorry if I dragged on a bit.

Dave