_GOTOBOTTOM
Armor/AFV: Modern - USA
Modern Armor, AFVs, and Support vehicles.
Hosted by Darren Baker
M113 variant ID request
Frenchy
Visit this Community
Rhone, France
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Monday, July 11, 2005 - 10:08 PM UTC
I've came across this picture on Webshots.com. It definitely looks like the troop compartment of a M113, but the compartment top hatch looks a bit unusual to me....Any idea

here's the url (to copy and paste if need be) :

http://image61.webshots.com/161/7/84/8/389478408PjTkQJ_ph.jpg

TIA
Frenchy
Frenchy
Visit this Community
Rhone, France
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Monday, July 11, 2005 - 11:41 PM UTC
If you are experiencing problems to see the picture here's the page it come from :
http://community.webshots.com/photo/317014523/389478408PjTkQJ

Frenchy
Neo
Visit this Community
North Carolina, United States
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 916 posts
Armorama: 758 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 12:02 AM UTC
You should ask Vodnik. I think he's into modern vehicles.
Vodnik
Visit this Community
Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 12:59 AM UTC
What the...? I have no idea what this is.

It is most likely A2, but what vehicle exactly - I don't know... Hatch seems to be split to two halves opened sideways. I have never seen it on any M113 vehicle.

Also, isn't it a pistol/rifle port on the right wall?...

Pawel
Red4
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: April 01, 2002
KitMaker: 4,287 posts
Armorama: 1,867 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 01:18 AM UTC
The split almost looks like the mortar carrier version, but it isn't quite right for that. The steering controls are for an older 113 either A1or A2. Personnel heater is missing, and not sure why the top of the hull is angled the way it is. Definately different. Almost reminds me of a YPR-765, but I highly doubt that as there is no turret and the USAF doesn't operate these that I know of :-) :-) Hmmmmm? "Q"
Red4
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: April 01, 2002
KitMaker: 4,287 posts
Armorama: 1,867 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 01:22 AM UTC
I looked at the rest of the pics in the album. There is an AAV-7...??? The Marine vehicle. Is the interior of these simular to the 113? I know it is a larger vehicle, but it does have angled sides, etc. Just a thought. "Q"
Vodnik
Visit this Community
Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 01:22 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The split almost looks like the mortar carrier version, but it isn't quite right for that.

Exactly! Mortar version hatch would be split to three sections and more rounded...




Quoted Text

There is an AAV-7...??? The Marine vehicle. Is the interior of these simular to the 113?

Nope, very different...

Pawel
Red4
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: April 01, 2002
KitMaker: 4,287 posts
Armorama: 1,867 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 01:25 AM UTC
Disregard. I looked it over closer and it isn't the same at all. Oh well. "Q"
rebelsoldier
Visit this Community
Arizona, United States
Joined: June 30, 2004
KitMaker: 1,336 posts
Armorama: 757 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 02:09 AM UTC
maybe air force version?

reb
matt
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Joined: February 28, 2002
KitMaker: 5,957 posts
Armorama: 2,956 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 02:52 AM UTC
Just a assumption here..... But I think it's a USMC AAVP-7 based on the fact there's a few pics scattered amongsht the other ones in there (most of the men seem to be USMC as well)

But I could be wrong
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 02:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Just a assumption here..... But I think it's a USMC AAVP-7 based on the fact there's a few pics scattered amongsht the other ones in there (most of the men seem to be USMC as well)

But I could be wrong
If it were an AAVP7A1, there would be another hatch located aft of the driver's compartment. I'm in the camp that thinks it may be a YPR variant.
Frenchy
Visit this Community
Rhone, France
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 03:17 AM UTC
Well, well, well... I'm happy to see that I'm not the only one to scratch his head while looking at this picture

The scene is supposed to take place in Iraq (considering the rest of the pics). So It could may be a vehicle of the Coalition, but not a US one....The "YPR lead" mentionned by Robin and Matthew looks interesting

The search is not over

Frenchy
keenan
Visit this Community
Indiana, United States
Joined: October 16, 2002
KitMaker: 5,272 posts
Armorama: 2,844 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 04:12 AM UTC
Just a WAG, but maybe an Italian VCC-1 Camallino?

Shaun

GIS only came up with 2 images of the VCC-1 total, no interior shots.
ptruhe
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: March 05, 2003
KitMaker: 2,092 posts
Armorama: 1,607 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 04:52 AM UTC
The length of the sloped portion on the side reminds me of a Pakistani M113 conversion but it had periscopes. At least one of the Pakistani M113 conversions has twin rear hatches that open to the side. I don't think Pakistan is even in Iraq.

All YPRs with the cannon turret replaced still have two cupolas in the front and the roof is raised. The VCC-1s I've seen have a cupola in the back and no hatch.

Paul
ptruhe
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: March 05, 2003
KitMaker: 2,092 posts
Armorama: 1,607 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 10:48 AM UTC
The profile of the Talha from Pakistan looks very similar to me to what you could assume the outside of the vehicle looks like:


Paul
m75
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: July 20, 2002
KitMaker: 666 posts
Armorama: 661 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 02:50 PM UTC
It's the USMC AAV. The interior side walls end with the angle in towards the top, a sure side of the AAV series, combined with the top troop compartment hatches and the apparent Marine in the photo!

My .02 cents.

Jim Peterson
HeavyArty
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 03:02 PM UTC

Quoted Text

It's the USMC AAV. The interior side walls end with the angle in towards the top, a sure side of the AAV series, combined with the top troop compartment hatches and the apparent Marine in the photo!

My .02 cents.

Jim Peterson


It is not an AAV. AAV has a center section between the two hatches on the roof. AAV is also much larger than an M113 and has a different driver, commander, and gunner's station layout than the M113 interior in the photo.

LVTP7-A1/AAVP7-A1 interior.



I am with Paul (Ptruhe) on this one. Looks like the Pakistani M113 varient he has pictured.

Also, how is he an apparent Marine? If you look at the other photos in his album, you will see his a USAF ETAC (Enlisted Tactical Air Controller), not a Marine at all.
Red4
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: April 01, 2002
KitMaker: 4,287 posts
Armorama: 1,867 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 03:03 PM UTC

Quoted Text

It's the USMC AAV. The interior side walls end with the angle in towards the top, a sure side of the AAV series, combined with the top troop compartment hatches and the apparent Marine in the photo!

My .02 cents.

Jim Peterson


He's not a Marine. He's Air Force. After looking over these photos and those of an AA7, that isnt what the vehicle is. There would be an additional plate in between the hatches and an additional hatch behind the driver. Check the posts above and you'll see what I mean. "Q"
Red4
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: April 01, 2002
KitMaker: 4,287 posts
Armorama: 1,867 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 03:05 PM UTC
I'm jumping on the Pakistani band wagon myself. How, where and why the USAF has it is still a mystery to me though. "Q" Maybe it was just a photo op??
Frenchy
Visit this Community
Rhone, France
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 07:08 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm jumping on the Pakistani band wagon myself.

I would jump on it too, as Paul's picture is quite convicing. AFAIK there are no Pakistani troops in Iraq.
The mystery deepens.............
Frenchy
rebelsoldier
Visit this Community
Arizona, United States
Joined: June 30, 2004
KitMaker: 1,336 posts
Armorama: 757 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 06:52 AM UTC
xm 734 maybe?

reb
rebelsoldier
Visit this Community
Arizona, United States
Joined: June 30, 2004
KitMaker: 1,336 posts
Armorama: 757 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 07:18 AM UTC
didn't notice any troop seats in the pic, and the talha has troop seats.


reb
Vodnik
Visit this Community
Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 07:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text

xm 734 maybe?

Nope, XM734 had standard M113 hatch and completely different interior (with benches in the middle and vertical walls wih vision blocks and rifle ports).

Pawel
ptruhe
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: March 05, 2003
KitMaker: 2,092 posts
Armorama: 1,607 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 08:41 AM UTC

Quoted Text

didn't notice any troop seats in the pic, and the talha has troop seats



The question is where do you find a Talha or Saad without the side periscopes.

Links for Pakistani armor:
http://www.pakdef.info/pakmilitary/futurz2003/index.html
http://www.pakdef.info/ideas2004/index.html
http://www.pakistanidefence.com/images/Army_Pics/APCs/APC_Talha_Images.htm

I can't think of any other M113 based vehicle that has that small of a sloped section on the side.

Paul
 _GOTOTOP