Hi,

I've been trying to find info on Israeli AXM-13s for a couple of days now and i'm not having much luck. I've found a few basic refrences on the net but I'd like to see some more and prehaps see what you would recomend in the way of books. also, I havent been able to find much in the way of background on the AMX 13s and i was hopeing you could answer some of the following questions for me:

I know the AMX 13s first saw use in the suez operations in 1956, but how long did they stay in front line service? would they have seen action in 1967, 1973?

the AMX 13 used, 75mm, 90mm and 105mm guns, but what were the specific guns used, are there any aftermarket barrels that would be suitable? (the berral in the heller kit is lacking in detail), did all these guns see use on isreali AMX 13s? when would they have been used?

Did any of the Arab armies use the AMX 13? when? (i have a picture of a AMX 13 turret mounted on a Egyptian sherman hull which is kind of neat...)

Thanks for the help,
Mike

p.s, i havent been able to look at any hebrew language pages because i don't understand hebrew, but any pictures you could point me to would be helpful.

Mike,

Can't help with the Israeli stuff but I've got the Heller kit plus a Chaffee turret conversion. This combination was used in Algeria.

No help with books either but this site has good details of the AMX-13 series:
http://www.chars-francais.net/de1945a_nos_jours.htm
And the AMX-13 75 specifically:
http://www.chars-francais.net/archives/amx13-75.htm

I think the Israels only used the 75mm version. To the best of my knowledge, both sides cannibalized all types of wrecks.

Paul

An Egyptian/Israeli Super Sherman solution was to fit AMX13 Turrets onto M4 hulls (see page 57 of the Born in Battle series, No.13 1980).

Geoff Lacey drew this in his 1/76 scale plan series available direct from source, 315A South Lane, New Malden, Surrey, KT3 5RR. 0208-949-3050. You want plan number IS3. John-B

Hello !

I don't think the AMX-13 was used by an arab country.
As you say, a french company mounted AMX-13 turrets on M4A4 shermans for egypt.
Just at the same time, another french company was designing the M-50 for israel.
Both these designs sport the very same 75mm canon.

From what I know, the israely AMX-13s should be standard. They didin't use missiles. I don't know if they had the sand shield on the turret (the egyptians didn't use it).
The only kit I know is from Heller and it's old...

There's a member of this site, shyrion, who's got a website dealing with israely tanks. Look for him !

Also, for pics of french AMX-13s :
chars francais

Good luck !

IIRC the Israelis got the 75mm version of the AMX13 and it stayed in service at least until the 1967 Six-Day War.

http://idfmodelling.free.fr/amx13.html

Note the idler is an early one, most conversions I've seen used a Hetzer idler as a replacement for the one in the Heller kit.

EDIT - as Heller's tracks are always awful, you might want to consider some Hetzer tracks too

Well 1 thing i know is that the Israeli told us to buy them,. So our MBT are AMX-13. But after local upgrades and modification, its called SM-1

thanks for the info every one! are there any aftermarket 75 mm mod 50 barrels on the market that could be used with this?


Thanks,
Mike.

I doubled checked my files for the Upgunned Shermans with the AMX13 turret. Military Modelling articles from 2/1986 and 4/1988 cover the Egyptian versions. John-B MAFVA Information Officer

Don't know of an after market barrel, other than using the resin one from Verlinden's turret. Accurate Armour make a resin track set for it.
By 1967, Israel had 150 AMX-13's. They were so outclassed that they wre immediately pulled from frontline service after the Six Day War, and assigned to reconnaissance units. I've not read any accounts of their use in 1973, although at least a few were still being used as scouts as late as 1984.
However, in 1973, the AMX 105mm SPG was still in use, and it's a pretty easy scratchbuild from the AMX -13 kit.

Mike,
Darlington Publications has the info you seek in
a book called Shermans in Israeli Service. Has the whole use of every type of sherman in IDF service. Hope this helps. Todd

Heller makes the only AMX-13 kits, they do the 75mm, 105mm, and APC versions. All are ancient and are riddled with inaccuracies. For example, the 105mm it has a gun barrel identical to the 75 dimensionally, save for a different muzzle brake. There is an article on the Australian Sentinel site (can't recall the link) has an article about how to fix most of the issues for an IDF version.

Accurate Armour make resin tracks for this kit, and I would use them instead of the worthless kit rubber bands.

Barrel Depot makes a very nice CN75-50 aluminum barrel, but last time I checked with The Barrel Store it was out of stock. Other vendors may have some.

The Egyptian conversion used the long-hull M4A4, but they were repowered with the GMC diesels from the M4A2. They used that engine deck and muffler, the latter exiting from a modified rear plate above severely cut-down access doors. These tanks also all had a total of three applique armor plates applied to the hull sides. And yes, some of these were captured by the IDF in '56 and rebuilt as M50's.
Greg