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Armor/AFV: Modern Armor
Modern armor in general.
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How is side skirt use in the real tank ?
pionner
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Posted: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 01:32 PM UTC
This question has been in my head a long time. And i thought I finally have to ask.

I noticed that some WWII german tank and most modern tank has side skirt....e.g M113, M1, Challenger...

What and how are they used in real operation ? I guess it is not to prevent the road wheel from dropped out... :-)

could it be use to prevent the track from derailing from the drive socket?
Drader
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Posted: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 02:44 PM UTC
Depends, the on tanks they usually serve to protect the lower hull from hollow charge warheads by detonating them away from the hull (which is why the ones on British tanks were known as 'bazooka plates'). On lighter vehicles like the M113 they often act as dust/mud shields. Not always though, standoff armour is fitted to light AFVs too.

The ones on WW2 German tanks were first fitted to protect the tanks from Russian anti-tank rifles.
Sabot
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Posted: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 05:23 PM UTC
On an Abrams tank, some side skirts are special Chobam armor and protect vital areas of the tank (fuel cells, hull ammo storage) and others are simple steel plates. They also reduce the amount of dust that gets kicked up when travelling.

An M113 side skirts are just rubber and keep the dust down.
jlmurc
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Posted: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 05:35 PM UTC
Having spent a number of years as a 'Tankie', I guess tanker to you, working on Chieftain, we had a kind of love hate thing with the bazooka plates as they were a real sod to get on and off.

It was explained to me during training that as has been said they are employed to protect the vulnerable areas of the hull above the tracks from penetrating rounds, where the hull is not as well armoured just like the belly plates, which is why you try to never show your underside to the enemy.

They are also of use in stopping grenades being thrown or placed onto the track runs, which may could disable you. Again a tank that cannot move is easy to kill.

WE did find problems in mud building up behind the plates, which when frozen caused a great deal of difficulty + they were prone to falling off at the most inopportune moments.

As to cutting down dust, great idea but I have never seen much difference between a vehicle with skirts on or off.

John
VonDodenburg
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Posted: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 05:37 PM UTC
Abrams M1 tanks sideskirts are for protection. Damm heavy too and are not designed to come off individually like the PzIV and Stug sideskirts were. M1 sideskirts can be "opened" like a door when necessary.

I can assure you they will not stop a track from coming off either!!!
Torchy
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Posted: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 06:37 PM UTC
[quote]On an Abrams tank, some side skirts are special Chobam armor [quote]

I thought Chobam armour was only used on brit tanks ,being a top secret thingie , please shoot me down if I'm wrong!!





Drader
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Posted: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 06:40 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I thought Chobam armour was only used on brit tanks ,being a top secret thingie , please shoot me down if I'm wrong!!


Americans used to call it Burlington armour and hoped no-one would notice . But Chobham was shared.
Torchy
#047
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Posted: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 06:42 PM UTC
Cheers Dave,you learn something new everyday
Hut
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Posted: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 07:25 PM UTC
I happened to come across this link:
http://www.panzerworld.net/facts.html

Stating:

Quoted Text

The true purpose of Schürzen
A lot of western literature has after the war named the purpose of the Schürzen as protection against hollow-charge ammunition, such as the PIAT and Bazooka. This myth originates from the western Allied intelligence, which gave two possible uses for the Schürzen - a defence against anti-tank rifles and a defence against hollow-charge ammunition. Because the western Allies didn't use anti-tank rifles, but in stead used hollow-charge ammunition, they opted for the latter guess.

German reports on the Schürzen tell a different story. All German documents name the desire for the development as a defence against Russian anti-tank rifles, and all initial tests were done exclusively with anti-tank rifles. This is but another example of Allied "intelligence", repeated by western authors.
thathaway3
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Posted: Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 12:11 AM UTC

Quoted Text

An M113 side skirts are just rubber and keep the dust down.


I remember being told as a young LT that since the M113 was considered to be able to ford rivers, that the rubber skirts helped the track propel the vehicle in the water by forcing the water out the back as the track turned. Early vehicles had a wooden "wave surpressor" panel that was on top of the engine cover and folded out to push the wake aside.

In any event, I think people quickly realized that aluminum or not, the things had no business in the water, and I never saw anyone actually try to swim one.

Tom
pionner
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Posted: Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 06:05 AM UTC
Great education for me..... have learnt a lot about the side skirts..... thanks guys...

Great place to post questions and there is always folks out there who know a thing or two...

I always have problem figureing out where the fuel tank for the vechicle I am modelling (M1, M113)...make it tough to try to weather oil spills...guess when I am ready to do that, I will post the question in this site again ....
Tarok
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Posted: Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 03:39 PM UTC
IIRC the skirts of the South African Olifant MBT are rubber. These are mainly to reduce the amount of dust kicked up... As you could imagine a tank traveling at speed through the African bush generates a fair amout of dust - to put it mildly...
MARKQOH
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Posted: Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 08:13 PM UTC
I spent many years on Chieftain one of the things we did with our 'bazooka plates' was to lower them to 90 degrees clean them down and use them as a large table make up a meal for the crew and have a sit down meal.This was only done when none Tac.
1AR
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Posted: Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 12:45 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I remember being told as a young LT that since the M113 was considered to be able to ford rivers, that the rubber skirts helped the track propel the vehicle in the water by forcing the water out the back as the track turned. Early vehicles had a wooden "wave surpressor" panel that was on top of the engine cover and folded out to push the wake aside.

In any event, I think people quickly realized that aluminum or not, the things had no business in the water, and I never saw anyone actually try to swim one.

Tom

As an Australian ex Army 1st Armoured recon M113 driver the rubber skirts are removeable.They are designed to help protect lwr hull from attacks as well as keeping the mud, dirt and dust down. They also stop the rubber blocks on the track flying through the air when they come and boy does it hurt when the do come off. If Tom was a young Lt who drove M113's he should know what a M113 can do. As Tom stated the rubber skirts helped the track propel the vehicle in the water by forcing the water out the back as the track turned. This is true and the "WOODEN PANEL" is called a "Trim Vane".
The M113 works very well in the water (Dams, Rivers) with the rubber skirts on. I spent many hours driving my M113 in the water. Standard requirments for all M113 drivers here in Australia. Great fun.

Andrew

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