Gunnie
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"OBG - PATTON" - Gunnie - M60 MBT
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
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Posted: Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 03:14 AM UTC
Here's my first (of three possible - keeping fingers crossed) entries into the "Ol' Blood and Guts - PATTON" Campaign. I'm modeling the M60 MBT by backdating the AMT/ESCI/ERTL M60A1 model kit. I have Chesapeake Model Designs' (CMD) excellent M60 Turret and will make use of parts from the AFV Club (Academy) M48H and AMT/ERTL/ESCI M60A3 model kits to round out a few scratchbuilt parts. First off will be addressing the Hull modifications...
Gunnie
Gunnie
TankCarl
Joined: May 10, 2002
KitMaker: 3,581 posts
Armorama: 2,782 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 06:34 AM UTC
Jim,is there a pair of round covers for aft of the last torsion bar stations for transmission drain covers?
I was STUCK on a plain M-60 when I got to Germany in '75.I will scrounge up some pictures,I think they had the front and rear shocks.
I think they retained those triangular pieces you are planning on removing.
(++) (++)
I was STUCK on a plain M-60 when I got to Germany in '75.I will scrounge up some pictures,I think they had the front and rear shocks.
I think they retained those triangular pieces you are planning on removing.
(++) (++) GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 06:40 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Jim,is there a pair of round covers for aft of the last torsion bar stations for transmission drain covers?
I was STUCK on a plain M-60 when I got to Germany in '75.I will scrounge up some pictures,I think they had the front and rear shocks.
I think they retained those triangular pieces you are planning on removing.
Not sure what you mean - but would love the photos. I'm not sure what to answer without understanding the question.
The M60 only has Shock Absorbers for the #1 and #6 Suspension Arms. The XM60's had internal Shock Absorbers - none on the outside. What is being removed it the mount for the Shock Absorber for #2 Suspension Arm. This is only appropriate for M60A1 through 'A3 variants. The mount for the forward Return Roller is also cut away and being removed rearward. XM60 and M60 MBT Return Rollers are evenly spaced apart. For M60A1 through 'A3, the forward Return Roller was shifted forward when the Shock Absorber for #2 Suspension Arm was added.
On the photos of the Hull I'm using for reference I didn't see any Drain Covers in that area. It would be great to add if appropriate.
Stuck on a M60?!? Man, I could think of worse...
Gunnie
panamadan
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 1,513 posts
Armorama: 1,449 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 07:22 AM UTC
Jim, do you have Hunnicutt's book "Patton"? Quite a good book for your project. Dan
panamadan
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 1,513 posts
Armorama: 1,449 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 07:24 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Jim, I think Carl means the engine and tranny oil access panels that are at the bottom of the rear of the tank. They should be there. Dan Jim,is there a pair of round covers for aft of the last torsion bar stations for transmission drain covers?
I was STUCK on a plain M-60 when I got to Germany in '75.I will scrounge up some pictures,I think they had the front and rear shocks.
I think they retained those triangular pieces you are planning on removing.
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 07:41 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Jim, do you have Hunnicutt's book "Patton"? Quite a good book for your project. Dan
No. Can't get past the asking price for a volume. Haven't run into one under the $350 dollar mark. I have to turn to a real one nearby to climb around upon.
As for the question: Duh! No - the kit Hull doesn't provide the Drain Cover detail here. Maybe I've been sniffing too much Gunze Mr. Surfacer...
As for me addiing them - yes - give me time!
Gunnie
GaryKato
Joined: December 06, 2004
KitMaker: 3,694 posts
Armorama: 2,693 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 12:06 PM UTC
Let's setup a time/date for me to pick up my Type XXI book. I'll drop off the Hunnicut book. :-)
panamadan
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 1,513 posts
Armorama: 1,449 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 08:40 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Jim, I never had a doubt that you would add them! Dan Quoted TextJim, do you have Hunnicutt's book "Patton"? Quite a good book for your project. Dan
No. Can't get past the asking price for a volume. Haven't run into one under the $350 dollar mark. I have to turn to a real one nearby to climb around upon.
As for the question: Duh! No - the kit Hull doesn't provide the Drain Cover detail here. Maybe I've been sniffing too much Gunze Mr. Surfacer...
As for me addiing them - yes - give me time!
Gunnie
panamadan
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 1,513 posts
Armorama: 1,449 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 08:41 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Jim, I never had a doubt that you would add them! Dan Quoted TextJim, do you have Hunnicutt's book "Patton"? Quite a good book for your project. Dan
No. Can't get past the asking price for a volume. Haven't run into one under the $350 dollar mark. I have to turn to a real one nearby to climb around upon.
As for the question: Duh! No - the kit Hull doesn't provide the Drain Cover detail here. Maybe I've been sniffing too much Gunze Mr. Surfacer...
As for me addiing them - yes - give me time!
Gunnie
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 10:54 PM UTC
Dan - thanks bunches for your PM - I responded this morning!
Gunnie
Gunnie
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
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Posted: Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 10:56 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Let's setup a time/date for me to pick up my Type XXI book. I'll drop off the Hunnicut book. :-)
Gary - I'm home all week - so whenever you have a chance - just shoot me a PM so that I can come from out of the Bunker and meet you!
You 'da Man!
Gunnie
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 04:52 AM UTC
Update: Working on the lower Hull - here are photos of the progress in the conversion. The left side is being worked on - the right side is left as for the M60A1 original. Perhaps most time consuming is removing the mold seams that run the length of each side of the lower Hull. In doing so, I also removed the soft bolt detail on each of the Torsion Bar Housings - ten each times 12 Housings - that had to be replaced with Grandt Line items. You'll decide for yourself if you want to take it that far in modeling your own conversion...
The open backs of the Transmission Housings have been plugged. The Track Adjusting Link Assembly between the Idler Wheel and connecting to the Suspension Arm #1 is done as well - and the incorrect molding on the AMT/ESCI/ERTL kit that attaches the Link to the lower Hull has been removed. The large lift rings that attach to the lower Hull 'blister' have been deleted and the details sanded away. The missing Drain Covers have been attached ( ), those mysterious slots at the front and rear of the 'blister' filled, the forward Track Support Roller Mount has been cut away and relocated further towards the rear, and the four stubs cast into the model kit lower Hull have been cut away and replaced with more suitable items to represent the travel stops.
Lastly, the backs of the AMT/ESCI/ERTL Suspension Arms are all left open and need to be filled. It's a curious lack of detail in an otherwise nice model kit. I plugged the holes with .021" punched disks topped with a short length of 1.6mm diameter rod. Just stuck on here for the photos, like everything else, they'll be sanded back a little bit before painting.
Next to come is to fill that funky little pour plug in the center of the lower Hull pan, and complete the modifications to the other side. After that, I'll join the remaining Hull parts together and move on to rounding out the rest of the Hull.
Gunnie
The open backs of the Transmission Housings have been plugged. The Track Adjusting Link Assembly between the Idler Wheel and connecting to the Suspension Arm #1 is done as well - and the incorrect molding on the AMT/ESCI/ERTL kit that attaches the Link to the lower Hull has been removed. The large lift rings that attach to the lower Hull 'blister' have been deleted and the details sanded away. The missing Drain Covers have been attached (
), those mysterious slots at the front and rear of the 'blister' filled, the forward Track Support Roller Mount has been cut away and relocated further towards the rear, and the four stubs cast into the model kit lower Hull have been cut away and replaced with more suitable items to represent the travel stops.Lastly, the backs of the AMT/ESCI/ERTL Suspension Arms are all left open and need to be filled. It's a curious lack of detail in an otherwise nice model kit. I plugged the holes with .021" punched disks topped with a short length of 1.6mm diameter rod. Just stuck on here for the photos, like everything else, they'll be sanded back a little bit before painting.
Next to come is to fill that funky little pour plug in the center of the lower Hull pan, and complete the modifications to the other side. After that, I'll join the remaining Hull parts together and move on to rounding out the rest of the Hull.
Gunnie
panamadan
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 1,513 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 07:31 PM UTC
Jim, Looking good! Did you remove the torsion bar anchors on the L/S? Dan
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
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Posted: Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 01:59 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Jim, Looking good! Did you remove the torsion bar anchors on the L/S? Dan
Yes!
Jim
panamadan
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 1,513 posts
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Posted: Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 06:36 AM UTC
Are you going to replace them with something else? 
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
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Posted: Friday, January 06, 2006 - 01:16 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Are you going to replace them with something else?
Just my own versions. Probably detail that could have better been left alone and time used elsewhere...
Gunnie
panamadan
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 1,513 posts
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Posted: Friday, January 06, 2006 - 03:20 AM UTC
Great! Those torsion bars had to anchor somewhere! Dan :-)
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 10:58 PM UTC
Update: Moving along quickly, here are two photos of the initial painting process. Not wanting to create a "mega-thread" I'm saving the bulk of the in-progress photos and information on the conversion for posting on my website when done. There's a lot yet to do to the model - but it's shaping up.
This miniature will be the first one I attempt to create and place my own homemade dry-transfer markings on too I think they're going to come out nicely....
Gunnie
This miniature will be the first one I attempt to create and place my own homemade dry-transfer markings on too I think they're going to come out nicely....
Gunnie
dexter059
Joined: July 28, 2005
KitMaker: 1,569 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 11:42 PM UTC
Impressive work! And the painting looks great, what colors are you using?
Cheers
Cheers
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 12:32 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Impressive work! And the painting looks great, what colors are you using?
Thank you! The color mix I'm using here is made up of Tamiya Acrylics:
23ml - XF-62 Olive Drab
18ml - XF-1 Flat Black
5ml - XF-9 Hull Red
The closer you get and the brighter the light - the more you can see the brownish tint to the color. The further away you move from the model, the darker the color gets, to the point of a blackish-green.
Gunnie
panamadan
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 1,513 posts
Armorama: 1,449 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 03:19 AM UTC
Jim, Got a nick-pick for you: get out a can of track tension and tighten that track! Kit looking great! Dan
dexter059
Joined: July 28, 2005
KitMaker: 1,569 posts
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Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 03:22 AM UTC
OK thanks..... 
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 04:37 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Jim, Got a nick-pick for you: get out a can of track tension and tighten that track! Kit looking great! Dan
The tracks are put on just for photos - I'm not close to finishing yet - but thanks...
Gunnie
jcneel
Joined: June 13, 2004
KitMaker: 135 posts
Armorama: 124 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 07:25 AM UTC
Hi Jim -
I happen to working on doing an M60 early conversion for this campaign as well (I'm using an AEF Turret - not highly touted, but think I can get it to work). I have gotten some inspiration from you build so far - but mine probably won't turn out as nice as yours.
Question for you - which tracks did you use as shown in the photo posted on Jan 12th? Are those the AFV Club Tracks for M48/m60's? I was going to use a set of rubber band tracks from a Tamiya M60 kit, but they are a little narrow for the drive sprockets from my Italeri kit. Do the AFV Tracks (if that's them) fit the Italeri sprockets or did you have to modify the sprockets.
Thanks
cn
I happen to working on doing an M60 early conversion for this campaign as well (I'm using an AEF Turret - not highly touted, but think I can get it to work). I have gotten some inspiration from you build so far - but mine probably won't turn out as nice as yours.
Question for you - which tracks did you use as shown in the photo posted on Jan 12th? Are those the AFV Club Tracks for M48/m60's? I was going to use a set of rubber band tracks from a Tamiya M60 kit, but they are a little narrow for the drive sprockets from my Italeri kit. Do the AFV Tracks (if that's them) fit the Italeri sprockets or did you have to modify the sprockets.
Thanks
cn
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 08:21 AM UTC
Chris - I'm happy to help out any way I can! Good luck with the AEF Turret - share your progress for us all!
I actually used the poly-vinyl track runs from the Academy M48A5K model kit for this project. These fit the AMT/ESCI/ERTL Drive Sprockets fine without modification - though the poly-vinyl tracks are really stiff and warped.
To use these, I joined them together (hot screwdriver melting the pin method) and then pinched them together into a flat oval with rubberbands. I immersed them into hot water to take out the warps - a couple of times. Then, while the tracks were still wet, I put them on the model tank to setup.
The method works well - but the tracks are still pretty tight - and you'll have "track float" over the top of the run to deal with. It doesn't look too bad in the photo above, but is hard to ignore. I address this by setting the Drive Sprocket, Idler and Road Wheels into proper alignment in a jig overnight. I used 5-minute epoxy for this as the track run is so tight I wanted all the strength I could get. Next, I insert wedges underneath the Fenders to force the upper track run down into contact with the Return Rollers, Sprocket and Idler. Again, I use tiny drops of 5-minute epoxy here too.
I thought I was saving time and effort here - but working with these took the same amount of time as it does to cleanup and apply the AFV Club individual track links. I'm building two M60 MBT conversions side-by-side, and I haven't decided which tracks I'm going to put on the second one yet. I'm leaning towards fitting AFV Club tracks to the second one. If you can wait a day - I'll try out fitting them to the Italeri/AMT/ESCI/ERTL Drive Sprockets...
Gunnie
I actually used the poly-vinyl track runs from the Academy M48A5K model kit for this project. These fit the AMT/ESCI/ERTL Drive Sprockets fine without modification - though the poly-vinyl tracks are really stiff and warped.
To use these, I joined them together (hot screwdriver melting the pin method) and then pinched them together into a flat oval with rubberbands. I immersed them into hot water to take out the warps - a couple of times. Then, while the tracks were still wet, I put them on the model tank to setup.
The method works well - but the tracks are still pretty tight - and you'll have "track float" over the top of the run to deal with. It doesn't look too bad in the photo above, but is hard to ignore. I address this by setting the Drive Sprocket, Idler and Road Wheels into proper alignment in a jig overnight. I used 5-minute epoxy for this as the track run is so tight I wanted all the strength I could get. Next, I insert wedges underneath the Fenders to force the upper track run down into contact with the Return Rollers, Sprocket and Idler. Again, I use tiny drops of 5-minute epoxy here too.
I thought I was saving time and effort here - but working with these took the same amount of time as it does to cleanup and apply the AFV Club individual track links. I'm building two M60 MBT conversions side-by-side, and I haven't decided which tracks I'm going to put on the second one yet. I'm leaning towards fitting AFV Club tracks to the second one. If you can wait a day - I'll try out fitting them to the Italeri/AMT/ESCI/ERTL Drive Sprockets...
Gunnie
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