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Alert for all Users - Security Breach..
thedutchie
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: February 01, 2005
KitMaker: 1,299 posts
Armorama: 919 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 14, 2006 - 06:00 PM UTC
To Jim Starkweather:
(sorry if I spelt your name wrong)

Jim, is it possible to block his IP Address? I know that if he is really dangerous he could hop servers and spawn his IP Addy, but more than likely he has an account with teh people who host his site. Perhaps that would stop him from gaining access to your servers. I think you could also do it through the router as well as through the internet provider. Just a thought.

I would also file a complaint.

Taylornic
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Tennessee, United States
Joined: January 10, 2005
KitMaker: 337 posts
Armorama: 332 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 14, 2006 - 07:26 PM UTC

Quoted Text

POSTSCRIPT: The person who runs T-L, obviously has rather less than confidence in the users of his site. Since this blew up yesterday, there have been a total of FIVE replies to his thread (two witten by him) . Does that mean that the T-L users are less 'Vocal' than others on the 'Net or could it be that he is spinning the thread to get a favorable press? ...Jim



Jim, you could not be more right! The thread was locked/unlocked at Paul's every whim yesterday.

I posted a very polite, one sentence question yesterday that read " Paul, could you tell us what testing methods you used that ruffled feathers?"

The question was based on Paul's post that said he managed to "ruffle a few feathers" while doing his "favor to everyone security tests"

Needless to say, it was deleted in less than 60 seconds!

The thread is showing locked still, but the new post added at 02:39:21 seems to be showing a reply button.

The way Paul is controlling the thread by deleting all posts to it, makes the thread look as if it has not had any interest, and that no one cares.
MLD
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Vermont, United States
Joined: July 21, 2002
KitMaker: 3,569 posts
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Posted: Saturday, January 14, 2006 - 08:19 PM UTC
I just posted to the "contact us" link on T-L and once I'm out of the user bank will be deleting my bookmark.

He does spin a very one-sided story in his locked thread, doesn't he..

quote
Mr Owen,

Remove ANY information you have stored on your computers with my information and terminate my user name/account ( that is, terminate it here on Track Link only) immediately.

From this point forward, an investigation of ANY fraudulent use of my identity will begin at your doorstep.

Thank you for your services prior to this unfortunate incident. I will not be returning save to check that you have acted upon my request in a timely manner.

Any communications other than a brief message acknowledging your compliance will be forwarded to my attorney for review.

signed

end quote..


Any bets on whether he does it or not, bets as to how long it takes..?

Mike
Moezilla
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Texas, United States
Joined: June 01, 2004
KitMaker: 1,161 posts
Armorama: 542 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 14, 2006 - 08:22 PM UTC
He's attempting damage control, it won't work. While this hobby is large, it's also small enough to where peoples reputations are well known or become well known. As I pointed out earlier, look at what happened with the 'buyer beware' thread and how Bryan has destroyed his reputation within the model world. It's easier though for one person to go hide in a hole and hope things will blow over. That's not such an easy thing to do when you're running a site and tends to hurt you more in the long run.
jimbrae
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Provincia de Lugo, Spain / España
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
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Posted: Saturday, January 14, 2006 - 08:24 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Mr Owen,

Remove ANY information you have stored on your computers with my information and terminate my user name/account ( that is, terminate it here on Track Link only) immediately.

From this point forward, an investigation of ANY fraudulent use of my identity will begin at your doorstep.

Thank you for your services prior to this unfortunate incident. I will not be returning save to check that you have acted upon my request in a timely manner.

Any communications other than a brief message acknowledging your compliance will be forwarded to my attorney for review.

signed

end



In a word - Superb...Jim
gcdavidson
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: August 05, 2003
KitMaker: 1,698 posts
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Posted: Saturday, January 14, 2006 - 08:41 PM UTC
Gents,

changing your password on TL is the wrong way to correct this serious breach of trust.

You should be changing EVERY password , except the one on Track-Link. He probably has a reference list of all your passwords on file.

Sheesh, check this out, he can't even follow his own rules!!!

From TL website:

Site Security Rules
Users are prohibited from violating or attempting to violate the security of the Site, including, without limitation, (a) accessing data not intended for such user or logging into a server or account which the user is not authorized to access, (b) attempting to probe, scan or test the vulnerability of a system or network or to breach security or authentication measures without proper authorization
oldbean
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Virginia, United States
Joined: July 05, 2004
KitMaker: 769 posts
Armorama: 461 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 14, 2006 - 09:57 PM UTC
I just deleted Trak Link from my favorite places. Won't ever go there again. I have had some unpleasant experiences with T-L in the past (Paul was pretty rude to me) and that was the main reason I started looking for(and found) this great site. Long Live Armorama!!!
Henk
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England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: August 07, 2004
KitMaker: 6,391 posts
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Posted: Saturday, January 14, 2006 - 11:22 PM UTC
It apears that we have got it all wrong...

I quote Steve Cambell's reply to a query with regards obtaining passwords..


Quoted Text

From: Steve Campbell
"how someone can get another's password sent to there own email address."
“Don't you need the password in the first place to change the email?”

Where did you get the reference to an e-mail and password problem from the thread below? I’ve re-read it and there is no reference to e-mails or e-mail accounts. Without wishing to imply that there is something suspicious about your post I’m very curious as to what it is you are asking. From: Steve Campbell
"how someone can get another's password sent to there own email address."
“Don't you need the password in the first place to change the email?”

Where did you get the reference to an e-mail and password problem from the thread below? I’ve re-read it and there is no reference to e-mails or e-mail accounts. Without wishing to imply that there is something suspicious about your post I’m very curious as to what it is you are asking. Paul has only advised you, because of mischievous behavior of others, to not use the same password on more than one web site. Makes perfect scene to me :-).


“I wouldn't want any administrators teaching me a lesson.”
What? Again I don’t understand. Being advised that my password access is at risk if I use the same one on multiple websites is teaching me a lesson? Are you sure you have read the thread (http://www.track-link.net/forum/news_general/12403/expand)?

Thanks so much for the reply and if after you have re-read the “Passwords and inter-site Security” thread you still have questions I’d be only to happy to help (that’s why we are all here after all :-)).
Regards Steve



“I wouldn't want any administrators teaching me a lesson.”
What? Again I don’t understand. Being advised that my password access is at risk if I use the same one on multiple websites is teaching me a lesson? Are you sure you have read the thread (http://www.track-link.net/forum/news_general/12403/expand)?

Thanks so much for the reply and if after you have re-read the “Passwords and inter-site Security” thread you still have questions I’d be only to happy to help (that’s why we are all here after all :-)).
Regards Steve




I read that particular post, and it did mention the email refered to. The posts are edited as it suits, meaning that any discussion on T-L is pointless.

And this quote


Quoted Text

Paul has only advised you, because of mischievous behavior of others, to not use the same password on more than one web site.



If I'm not mistaken, Paul has admitted to doing this himself? Wake up Steve..

Henk
atcockle
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: October 22, 2005
KitMaker: 9 posts
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Posted: Saturday, January 14, 2006 - 11:39 PM UTC
Steve Campbell is obviously not aware of all the postings on this site to know why Steve Van Beveren asked the question in the first place.

Tom
Jay_Laverty
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: January 15, 2006
KitMaker: 5 posts
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Posted: Sunday, January 15, 2006 - 01:50 AM UTC

Quoted Text


My name is Roy Chow (armorama ID: ericadeane). I serve as the Allied DG moderator. Jim Starkweather offered me the role and I'm glad to serve this great site.

I ALSO serve on the admin team with Paul Owen over on TL. While I don't condone Paul's logging into Jim Rae's account here, here's the reason it happened.

Yesterday, one of our administrators demanded to resign because someone had tampered with one of his postings on Track-Link. The only ones who can edit postings are members of the admin team. He concluded that one of his fellow admin people were tampering with him and he was irate. Paul Owen, figured out that one of us must have been hacked -- as many of us are registered on multiple boards (and sometimes with the same password). That is why he immediately posted a warning to the TL administrators and the entier TL community to switch their passwords.

Paul emailed the admin team to say that he was able to do the same (get into another website) as an experiment and warned the admin team that this was a security loophole with TL (and other sites). In working with Paul for several years (and frequenting his site since 1996), he's been a straight shooter.

Paul has also worked with Jim Starkweather to try to assemble the various modelling website principals in a webmasters guild to work on joint problems and to promote unity.

Jim: I would agree that it requires an apology. The steps Paul took weren't judicious at all. You've said he's done other things to other Armorama staff: I can't speak to that and have to trust that you're correct that "frostyness" exists btn Paul and this site. However, I dont' believe yesterday's actions were meant to harm you or Armorama at all. There really was a security breach at TL. My word on it



Hi Roy;

No doubt you have the fullest of good intentions with this post, and I imagine you actually believe Paul Owens take on events. However, Paul Owen is one of the biggest scumbags associated with this hobby, and the sooner he is not involved with it the better if you were to ask me.

He will have been the one editing the other moderators posts on your site, and he will be the one visiting other sites using the passwords of the members of Track Link to his own benefit. all of this story will have been concocted by him to cover his pathetic actions, and if people believe him, that is their folly. Consistently he has behaved with questionable motives on his own site ( which he told me he owned ) and on other sites. He has had constant run ins with people across the breadth and width of this hobby including myself, and continually he shows his nasty contemptuous attitude.


I am myself an administrator on Large scale Planes, and I know that if any one of us felt that there was some security siuation that we felt we needed attention, we would contact our fellow moderators on other boards personally rather than hack inot their site.

He's just been caught with his hand in the jar, and like any other petulant child, is concocting a wild tale to get out of it.

If I were you Roy, I would dissasociate yourself as much as possible from this retrobate, and speak to the actual owner of the site about removing him from the admin in order to restore some confidence in the site. I for one think that if there were in fact a "guild" of administrators as you put it Mr. Owen would find himself disbarred very quickly.


Quoted Text

Three senior Staff-Members on THIS site, have been the subject of his attacks on repeated occasions. There is no evidence whatsoever that he is doing this in an 'altruistic' manner. It is breach of trust - pure and simple



this perfectly illustrates his personality, and succinctly describes his actions. Well said Jim.



Quoted Text

For anyone else who says "Let's go to war" or wants to pile on personal attacks on people's family or marriages, please remember what Armorama, Finescale, Track-link, Missing-lynx (etc) are all about. It's a hobby that each of us delve into to relax and enjoy some community. I don't know many of us who are starving, live in the Third World, or are trying to extract someone trapped in a mine somewhere or trying to survive because your village was flattened by an earthquake. Please let's use some common courtesy (even if it hasn't been given to us).



Very nice sentiment Roy, and while I am sure all of us here appreciate the reality of the world at large, we are putting things in context, and what Paul Owen has done has nothing to do with ending third world huinger. In fact you mention that we should all try to remember what these websites are here for, and that is modelling! We all constantly act with courtesy, and it is Paul Owen who constantly acts with none. So please spare us the lecture.

Speaking of what the websites are here for, Paul Owen once proudly exclaimed to me in one of his nasty e-mails that he wasnt a modeller and thought modellers were pathetic and that it was a "childish passtime". Quoting his words exactly. I have saved this e-mail so if you ( or anyone ) wants to see it to verify it came from him then feel free to contact me.


All the best to you all,

Jay Laverty
KWHCoaster
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: May 15, 2004
KitMaker: 16 posts
Armorama: 13 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 15, 2006 - 03:57 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Did u miss the computer ethics class in school?



Hi Brian,

Although an ethics class wasn't part of my B.CS. '92 degree, I'm beginning to think it should be required for 1st year Comp Sci students. These days far too many IT people seem to be oblivious to what behaviour is right and wrong these days.

I find it astonding that so many IT colleagues pirate software, games, music CDs, movie DVDs, hack satellite receivers, etc., and really believe their twisted logic to justify the practice. When they explain their reasoning, my reply is always "Whatever helps you sleep at night".

Ken
peacekeeper
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Florida, United States
Joined: May 07, 2004
KitMaker: 715 posts
Armorama: 297 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 15, 2006 - 04:51 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Did u miss the computer ethics class in school?



Hi Brian,

Although an ethics class wasn't part of my B.CS. '92 degree, I'm beginning to think it should be required for 1st year Comp Sci students. These days far too many IT people seem to be oblivious to what behaviour is right and wrong these days.

I find it astonding that so many IT colleagues pirate software, games, music CDs, movie DVDs, hack satellite receivers, etc., and really believe their twisted logic to justify the practice. When they explain their reasoning, my reply is always "Whatever helps you sleep at night".

Ken



I work in IT, and have done so for many years now. If I had EVER tried anything like this without getting it approved by senior management, it would have broken every code of ethics in the profession and would have caused my IMMEDIATE termination and a visit from the RCMP or other appropriate law enforcement agency.

A site administrator should know better and should at least follow the rules laid down on his/her site. NOTHING ELSE is acceptable.

my $0.02 worth

(btw - never been to T-L, and now never will go there)
c6o
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New York, United States
Joined: January 18, 2004
KitMaker: 64 posts
Armorama: 61 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 15, 2006 - 05:33 AM UTC
greetings,
seems a few feathers were kind of ruffled. the point was made that only fools would use the same name or password in different urls.
there's a lesson there, it could of been somebody else doing some real damage and who would be to blame. look in the mirror...
about kicking a.s and trusting does not speak well of the writer.
by the way, am also a member of t-l and a few other forums and i read more than one newspaper...
cheers and be thankful.
c6o
carpe diem
Henk
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England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: August 07, 2004
KitMaker: 6,391 posts
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Posted: Sunday, January 15, 2006 - 05:47 AM UTC
T-L seems to have gone really quiet....are people not posting there anymore, or are the contributions not favourable enough to pass... .
markm
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California, United States
Joined: September 11, 2005
KitMaker: 1,757 posts
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Posted: Sunday, January 15, 2006 - 06:06 AM UTC
Noticed the same thing. Looks like every time someone posts something related to this subject the post disappears very quickly. Must be the self appointed internet security police again.
Taylornic
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Tennessee, United States
Joined: January 10, 2005
KitMaker: 337 posts
Armorama: 332 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 15, 2006 - 07:01 AM UTC
If there was nothing wrong with what he did, why does any post dealing with what/why he did what he did disappear within 60 seconds?
easy8
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Alabama, United States
Joined: October 14, 2002
KitMaker: 10 posts
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Posted: Sunday, January 15, 2006 - 08:47 AM UTC
He's deleting them before they get archived (by Google, etc.)
airwarrior
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: November 21, 2002
KitMaker: 2,085 posts
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Posted: Sunday, January 15, 2006 - 10:27 AM UTC

Quoted Text



Speaking of what the websites are here for, Paul Owen once proudly exclaimed to me in one of his nasty e-mails that he wasnt a modeller and thought modellers were pathetic and that it was a "childish passtime". Quoting his words exactly. I have saved this e-mail so if you ( or anyone ) wants to see it to verify it came from him then feel free to contact me.


All the best to you all,

Jay Laverty



Now this is VERY interesting.....


Quoted Text

Regardless, we now have model site wars on the internet...just great.



Oh great, now we can have scale wars to!

From my point of view, thia Paul character is totally inethical, rude, obnoxious, a blatant liar, and also stupid. There has got to be something better than "just checking security systems." How about "space aliens from planet orbilagoojoo came and made me do it...."
BigJon
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England - West Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: July 12, 2005
KitMaker: 757 posts
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Posted: Sunday, January 15, 2006 - 03:51 PM UTC
aaaahhh the internet


bringing all us modellers together to join in the greatest collective-knowledge resource in the world.



sadly, it brings a few other types of people with it.
Grumpyoldman
Staff MemberConsigliere
KITMAKER NETWORK
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Florida, United States
Joined: October 17, 2003
KitMaker: 15,338 posts
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Posted: Sunday, January 15, 2006 - 06:29 PM UTC

Quoted Text

There has got to be something better than "just checking security systems." How about "space aliens from planet orbilagoojoo came and made me do it."



We could watch the dark side of the moon reflected on our garage doors........ :-)
bogusman
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Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: August 30, 2004
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Posted: Sunday, January 15, 2006 - 07:39 PM UTC
I have been reading this thread with interest since the start.what ever did Mr Owen, the internet megalomaniac think he was doing.Highlighting internet security weaknesses on Armorama....I don`t think so. Mr Owen knew exactly what he was doing, he just didn`t realise that it was gonna bring the internet modelling world down around his ears.Personally I believe what he has done verges on criminality and should be treated as such, this lame excuse...I was trying to highlight security breaches/lapses on internet sites....yeah right.........just picture it ....court of law.....defendant accused of breaking into a bank....."honestly your honour I was only trying to highlight the security problems in this establishment"....what a lame defence.I`m sure we will read more of this type of criminal getting off Scot free with this watertight defence.
With regards to the thread not being added to.....you will probably find Mr Owen constantly at his keyboard promptly deleting messages that he does not like or agree with. Messages that portray him like the mincehead he appears to be.Try posting a message on TL regarding this matter, see how long it stays there.With a little bit of luck Mr Owens and his site will go down like a burning Messerschmitt.
Obviously the iternet modelling fraternity will be a safer place for all who register on these types of site.Thankfully I was never registered on TL, it`s bad enough changing your passwords frequently,FOR SECURITY REASONS....honest, without having to change them to stop some idiot,Mr Owen, from breaching the trust and security of his own site
jimbrae
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Provincia de Lugo, Spain / España
Joined: April 23, 2003
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Posted: Sunday, January 15, 2006 - 09:49 PM UTC
A lot of the Technical issues are coming out in this thread:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47211/message/1137252784/Security+Breaches+and+the+Ethics+of+some+Webmasters...
markm
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California, United States
Joined: September 11, 2005
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Posted: Sunday, January 15, 2006 - 10:18 PM UTC
"We could watch the dark side of the moon reflected on our garage doors........ "


While wearing our tin foil hats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
18Bravo
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Colorado, United States
Joined: January 20, 2005
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Posted: Monday, January 16, 2006 - 01:20 AM UTC
Paul Owen-Dumb thing to do.
Same password on multiple sites-Dumber thing to do.

IBTL