Does anyone know the difference between a 75mm gunned M4A3E2 Sherman Jumbo and a 76mm gunned Jumbo? I mean besides the obvious gun tube difference and any internal ammo storage difference.
Is is as simple are replacing the gun tube?
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Difference between Sherman Jumbos?
Sabot
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Posted: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 10:45 PM UTC
toadman1
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Posted: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 11:03 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Does anyone know the difference between a 75mm gunned M4A3E2 Sherman Jumbo and a 76mm gunned Jumbo? I mean besides the obvious gun tube difference and any internal ammo storage difference.
Is is as simple are replacing the gun tube?
Robin,
There were no other differences other than what you already stated. Some units did replace the co-axial .30cal with a .50cal. That's about it.
Chris "toadman" Hughes
Toadman's Tank Pictures
tankmodeler
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Posted: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 11:07 PM UTC
Given that it was done at the local depot level on a unit by unit basis, I'd say yes, it was just gun & stowage. There might be further differences, but I would say that they would be more on an individual vehicle basis than systemic in nature.
This is just a guess, though.
Paul
This is just a guess, though.
Paul
Sabot
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Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 03:35 AM UTC
Thanks, I was hoping it was that easy. Second question, did the 76mm gun have the muzzle brake or not?
War_Machine
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Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 04:07 AM UTC
I can't claim to have seen all of the upgunned Jumbos, but all of the photos I have seen appear to show older straight tapered 76mm guns without thread protectors mounted. As is usually the case with WW2 US armor, darn near anything is possible, so you could probably mount a 76mm with a muzzle break and nobody could disprove its having been used. 
Jacques
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Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 04:08 AM UTC
All references I have show only the 76mm armed WITHOUT the muzzle break...even the post-war ones. ALthough most post-war Jumbo's were 75mm.
Most of the 76mm armed Jumbos served under Patton's commands. Not sure where I read it, but that is what I remember.
Also, IIRC the turret/gun mechanism was designed from the outset to allow the 76mm to be a easy "field" conversion. There is no mention of any other mod to the turret/hull when they did the switch, so I assume the difference in ammo did not effect the ammo racks.
Model conversion should just consist of replaceing the barrel so far as I know.
Anyone else?
Most of the 76mm armed Jumbos served under Patton's commands. Not sure where I read it, but that is what I remember.
Also, IIRC the turret/gun mechanism was designed from the outset to allow the 76mm to be a easy "field" conversion. There is no mention of any other mod to the turret/hull when they did the switch, so I assume the difference in ammo did not effect the ammo racks.
Model conversion should just consist of replaceing the barrel so far as I know.
Anyone else?
GunTruck
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Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 06:27 AM UTC
Quoted Text
All references I have show only the 76mm armed WITHOUT the muzzle break...even the post-war ones. ALthough most post-war Jumbo's were 75mm.
Most of the 76mm armed Jumbos served under Patton's commands. Not sure where I read it, but that is what I remember.
Also, IIRC the turret/gun mechanism was designed from the outset to allow the 76mm to be a easy "field" conversion. There is no mention of any other mod to the turret/hull when they did the switch, so I assume the difference in ammo did not effect the ammo racks.
Model conversion should just consist of replaceing the barrel so far as I know.
Anyone else?
Pretty much dovetails my thoughts/comments too. Can't add anymore...
Gunnie
woodstock74
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Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 06:37 AM UTC
Had the same question a couple of years ago in this thread:
To muzzle brake or to not muzzle brake
Basically the Patton Museum's curator said it could go either way and was just a matter of screwing the brake into the threads at the end of the barrel.
To muzzle brake or to not muzzle brake
Basically the Patton Museum's curator said it could go either way and was just a matter of screwing the brake into the threads at the end of the barrel.
sarge18
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Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 08:05 AM UTC
I managed to shanghai the Armor Magazine's copy of Hunnicutt's "Sherman". I'll try to remember to bring it back to the office, if you want, Sabot.
The T110 combination gun mount was a modified version of the M62 mount use for the standard 76mm gun tanks. Design was originally intended for the 76mm, but the 75 was preferred for the infantry support. Because the mount was almost identical, it was easy to replace the 75 with the 76. Pg 290.
So there's more support for switching it. It's likely just a function of getting the correct length. Initial 76's placed in there were a the non-threaded/capped/braked version.
The T110 combination gun mount was a modified version of the M62 mount use for the standard 76mm gun tanks. Design was originally intended for the 76mm, but the 75 was preferred for the infantry support. Because the mount was almost identical, it was easy to replace the 75 with the 76. Pg 290.
So there's more support for switching it. It's likely just a function of getting the correct length. Initial 76's placed in there were a the non-threaded/capped/braked version.
Sabot
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Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 08:32 AM UTC
No need, I have the Sherman book and it does talk about rearming. There are even a couple of photos of the Jumbo with the 76mm, but I can't tell for sure if the 76mm gun has the threaded end or if it is plain. I know I have not seen a photo of one with the muzzle brake, but I know that with Shermans, all things are possible.
Basically, I have two of the ExtraTech M4A3E2 Jumbos. I plan to built one with the 75mm as comes with the box and I have a few extra Armo 76mm aluminum barrels. They have the threaded collar. I guess it will be close enough.
Basically, I have two of the ExtraTech M4A3E2 Jumbos. I plan to built one with the 75mm as comes with the box and I have a few extra Armo 76mm aluminum barrels. They have the threaded collar. I guess it will be close enough.
Drader
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Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 01:29 PM UTC
There was a nice Steve Zaloga article in Military Modelling about building a Jumbo a few years ago with an excellent selection of pictures and stuff on the .50cal coax (which was the aircraft version not the HB). I'll try and remember to have a look at it this weekend.
Sabot
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Posted: Friday, January 20, 2006 - 01:56 AM UTC
Quoted Text
No need, Steve sent me a copy of the article a while back. As far as I know the base kit does not need a whole lot of tweaking.There was a nice Steve Zaloga article in Military Modelling about building a Jumbo a few years ago
ponysoldier
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Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 - 05:11 AM UTC
As long as this thread is running,what is the
length of the of the 76mm?
Patrick
length of the of the 76mm?
Patrick
ericadeane
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Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 - 05:58 AM UTC
Jacques:
Postwar M4A3E2s? I thought all work on these ceased with the end of hostilities? Can you shed any more light?
Postwar M4A3E2s? I thought all work on these ceased with the end of hostilities? Can you shed any more light?
Jacques
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Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 12:49 AM UTC
Well, I have not been able to get back to the Camp Ripley museum lately, but when I do I will try to find out service dates for the M4A3E2's they had, and try to get a accurate accounting of how many were is use.
I do know they served in the MN guard into the 1950's at least! But they were never deployed outside the USA...gotta use them to protect Iowa from Canada you know, eh! :-)
I do know they served in the MN guard into the 1950's at least! But they were never deployed outside the USA...gotta use them to protect Iowa from Canada you know, eh! :-)
toadman1
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Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 05:31 AM UTC
A picture of one in use with the MN Nat Guard during summer camp manuvers was posted a year or two ago on ML. I think it was dated somwhere between 1950 and 1954. IIRC, the pic showed at least one E2, a couple of M4A3(76)'s and one or two M4A3(75). I think Panamadan posted it. I have it on my computer at work(I think).
BTW, Littlefield's M4A3E2 has a radio removal date of 1/52 stencilled on the hull side.
Chris "toadman" Hughes
Toadman's Tank Pictures
BTW, Littlefield's M4A3E2 has a radio removal date of 1/52 stencilled on the hull side.
Chris "toadman" Hughes
Toadman's Tank Pictures
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