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Armor/AFV: Canadian Armor
Discuss all types of Canadian Armor of all eras.
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JTF-2 Hummer
GeraldOwens
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Posted: Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 09:29 AM UTC
Desert Humvee=Dumvee
f1matt
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Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 - 01:39 PM UTC
I beat ya to it! I must admit it though I don't think mine is all that accurate as far as the mods. I just changed whatever I could according to that one black and white photo and was simply satisfied to have a Canadian HUMVEE. The best part was explaining to people at the local IPMS chapter one night that yes we do have a few HUMVEE's. I made sure to bring the photo otherwise I don't think they would have believed me!
darkwolf
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South Australia, Australia
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Posted: Sunday, January 14, 2007 - 06:15 PM UTC
i have photos of the same black and white photo but bigger and in color. i found a bunch of rare jtf2 photos.
JP_Morgan
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 05:52 AM UTC
Gino,


Quoted Text

First pic looks like the US SF DUMVEE. Second one looks sort of like another commercial version that the US Military did not go with.


Neither of these are US vehicles. JTF2 is a Canadian unit.

First picture is a scan out of Pugliese's book on the JTF2. Second image is right from the Canadian Forces webpages for the JTF2.
JP_Morgan
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Posted: Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 06:14 AM UTC

Quoted Text

But to answer some of the uncertanties yes they were loaned from the US (and delivered on site to boot even!). This is only a temporary move until we get our nice new Mercedes.


Do you have a source for that? Who says that the Hummers weren't purchased? I've always understood them to have been purchased outright for JTF2 usage. In fact, the image showing the desert tan JTF2 Hummer in the snow was taken in Petawawa, not Afghanistan. To be replaced by G-Wagons (I assume that's what you meant by "Mercedes")? Doubtful. Besides, the G-Wagons have been in service for quite some time... even the Reserves have them. Why would they not have replaced these Hummers if this is really what was intended? I don't recall JTF2 being at the bottom of the CF's list for vehicle issues.


Quoted Text

That is one huge difference between our SF team and other ones around the world. In combat, other SF teams like to use their heavily modified vehicles a lot. JTF-2 usually like to blend in, and does most of their mods to the inside or try to make them small so as not to be noticed. (Although sadly this is a declining trend even for JTF-2).


I assume that these statements are your opinion, and not actually stated somewhere? Your comments give serious doubt that you have much knowledge of the JTF2 or how they conduct operations. Frankly, I dare any internally modified vehicle to "make them small so as not to be noticed'' in an Afghan town.

Facts of the matter are that JTF2 did borrow some US DPV's early in OEF, they did buy an unconfirmed number of Hummers, and that these vehicles were specially modified for their use. As of Oct 06, they were still in use, judging by the ones I saw in Kandahar. Anything much beyond that is speculation, assumptions, and SWAG (Scientific Wild Ass Guess) on anyone's part. Tough to find info on them.
sauceman
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Posted: Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 06:39 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Anything much beyond that is speculation, assumptions, and SWAG (Scientific Wild Ass Guess) on anyone's part. Tough to find info on them.


Thats the difference between Canada and other countries SOF units, we actually try to keep our's secret.

cheers
JP_Morgan
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 06:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Thats the difference between Canada and other countries SOF units, we actually try to keep our's secret.



I beg to differ somewhat. Keep ours secret? Like the recent public announcement that the JTF2 will be relocated to Trenton, that it may be renamed along with CSOR to the 1st & 2nd Bns Special Service Regiment, and that a Marine Commando Regiment will be formed and based in Comox BC in the near future? Doesn't seem so secret...

Granted, Canada has gone to great lengths to keep more specific information about our SOF more secret than many other nations have. The SAS was the same way years ago, and I think that certain aspects of Canadian SOF units will be made more public in the future as well.
gcdavidson
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Posted: Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 08:34 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Like the recent public announcement that the JTF2 will be relocated to Trenton,.


Guess the local populace living around DHTC got tired of the racket?
JP_Morgan
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 09:08 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Guess the local populace living around DHTC got tired of the racket?


One particular neighbour has been tired of it for years. Always complaining in the media.

It's probably less publicity making the announcement that they're moving than continually fighting in the courts and newspapers with the neighbours.
gcdavidson
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Posted: Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 07:38 AM UTC
well, with the CC-17's being based out of Trenton, it does make sense that any rapid reaction force be co-located. Hmm, the para school is there too... could this be the Army taking over another AF base a la Edmonton?
Johnston_RCR
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 08:11 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Guess the local populace living around DHTC got tired of the racket?


One particular neighbour has been tired of it for years. Always complaining in the media.

It's probably less publicity making the announcement that they're moving than continually fighting in the courts and newspapers with the neighbours.


Hmm...you would think they should be used to it by now. The JTF-2 training ground was RCMP CERT team territory for years before JTF took over the counter-terror role officially. I say if they don't like the noise, they have had plenty of time to leave. And for the ones who are mad after moving there, its their own fault for buying houses near there.

I never updated my original posts. I had heard from Air Force and Army mechanics who have done tours over there, hearing third hand stories. The latest I had heard after my post was that the lending was a myth, and they were in fact bought. The rest is my opinion yes, but I have rethought. The Humvee is an excellent vehicle to use in Afganistan where it doesnt really matter. The unmarked/unoffical cars only really work in First World countries, where they have a chance to blend in. A disguised vehicle in Afganistan would stick out as much as a military Humvee in downtown Toronto.
gcdavidson
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Posted: Monday, February 12, 2007 - 08:06 AM UTC
I have a hunch that SERT (not CERT like the breath mints) did not expend quite the same amount and calibre of ammo as -2 does.

Still waiting for a 1/35 FMTV so I can do a JTF 2 mothership.
Johnston_RCR
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 03:22 AM UTC
Im not sure. Before JTF-2 took over, SERT was responible for counter-terror actions throughout all of Canada. They may not have used as much ordnance in training, but the ammouts are probably fairly comparable.
DeskJockey
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Virginia, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 03:35 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Still waiting for a 1/35 FMTV so I can do a JTF 2 mothership.


Graeme, if you don't mind tackling vacuform kits, Scaleshop (an Austrian company) has a Steyr 12M18, which is the Austrian military version of the FMTV. Seb has been converting one of these kits into a US mothership (you can probably find the threads here fairly easily).

Here is a link to the product page.
gcdavidson
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Posted: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 01:00 AM UTC
The JTF-2 SA Ammo budget is greater than the rest of the Canadian Army combined (pre JTF-AFG). I don't think SERT put that amount of lead downrange, but then what do I know. IIRC the noise complaints were more due to the low level activities of 427 SOA Sqn than 9mm double taps.

Lucas- thanks for the int, never tackled a vac form kit. I have a hunch the FMTV is something that Italeri would have a crack at. The JTF-2 trucks I've seen have not been overtly modified.
DeskJockey
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Posted: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 04:22 AM UTC
It would be great if Italeri came out with an injection molded FMTV. I know a lot of us would snap it up.

I went ahead and bought one of the vacu-kits from Scaleshop yesterday. It's a bit pricey with shipping, and I've never built one before (or a resin kit, for that matter!), but I still can't wait to get my grubby little hands on it. Seb's build has really made me salivate at the prospect of turning the Steyr into a mothership. He makes it look easy (which, I'm willing to bet, it is most definitely not!).
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