I have a very fuzzy black and white pic of the above and would like to know more about it.What model is it based on(M1114,M1025)? Is it the same as the US Dumvee?

Thanx for any help.

Jim

How about posting the pic. Without it to look at, it would just be a guess. They use all sorts of vehicles in JTF-2.

Hey Gino,

This is the one I'm looking to build.



This is another pic I have labeled as JTF-2.I assume it is CDN by the snow!



What I'm interested in is the possable mods. that we did to them?The top pic looks very close to the US DUMVEE but we (Canadians) tend to modify every thing to suit us.I was woundering what would be different?

Jim

Heck I never even knew we had Humvee's in the CF are these leased from the US military?
Guess this means our mighty G-Wagon just cant compete with em hummers eh

Hi Rei

The hummers were to the best of my knowledge give/loaned to us at the begining of the Afgan. war.All we had were the Iltis and we know how long they lasted over there!

If you look real close at the top pic you can see the Maple Leaf just behind the front tire.

Jim

First pic looks like the US SF DUMVEE. Second one looks sort of like another commercial version that the US Military did not go with.

Here is another pic of it.


There are lots of companies who put forth their own designs for a Spec Ops HMMWV.

That rollbar Humvee is actually AM General's "Special Forces" Humvee, which a few foreign nations use.

The U.S. Special Forces do not like the AM General's "Special Forces" Humvee version because the configuration doesn't suit their requirements. So what happens is the U.S. Army buys the AMG SF version and then hires a contractor to modify it into the Ground Mobility Vehicle (Dumvee) version. The GMV cannot be bought from AM General stock. It has to be modified.

ahh yes the great ILTIS :-) thats what you get when you let civilian politicians buy your military equipment

in fairness to the little guy though, I heard its original european counterpart which was made by Volks Wagen actually serves as a decent military vehicle, I wonder why Bombardier couldnt do the same for it here

Thanks Gino and Peter.

Rei
I drove the Iltis for a few years while I was in.Yes the German version was way better but ours were not all that bad.They were small and nimble but slow.They were just never meant for a combat zone.Go figure a military vehicle not built for combat!!

Jim

Saw in Jane's Special Forces Recognition Guide that some US SOF units are now using a modified version of the Land Rover Defender/Wolf/WMIK. Is this a planned replacement for the DUMVEE (why's it called that anyway)?

Haven't heard anything about the Landroves Wolf as a replacement, don't think so though. Rangers have been using them for years, started using them following Op Just Cause (Panama '89). Painted all black and spooky like.

75th Ranger Regiment Landrover





Not an official name, but Desert hUMVEE, hence DUMVEE.

I do know that the Marines use a variant of the Mercedes Benz G-Wagen (also known as a Wolf) as their Interim Fast Attack Vehicle. You can see one here: OIF MEU Vehicle ID.
Kyle

Yeah, that's the variant Jane's shows. It was a head-on shot. Any reason why the Rangers opted for the Landy? Must be a reason to go against the grain.

I really wish someone would come out with an affordable kit of the Wolf/WMIK. It's one of my favourite vehicles, but I really cant afford the Accurate Armour kit. I'm even contemplating converting a Tamiya Pinky, but it's a lot of work.

You have to be careful with Jane's now because those cheap Jane's pocket books you see at the bookstore are rehashes (meaning old content, new cover and new copyright date, but the info is outdated). A lot of the Jane's authors are no longer with Jane's anymore.

If you look at the staple of Jane's profits, their magazines, you'd notice that Jane's has gotten a lot thinner over the years.

Also, a lot of military books in the bookstores are indeed rehashes with last or this year's copyright date, but the info is sorely old.

****
OK, to answer your question...

The Pro Arts model is actually called a "Ground Mobility Vehicle" (GMV). People mistakenly call it the DUMVEE for some odd reason because it's faster to type (and say) than "Ground Mobility Vehicle" and many people don't know what a GMV stands for anyway. I even call it the DUMVEE myself, which is wrong, but sure makes more sense to the layman than GMV.

There was a DUMVEE...that is essentially a M998 Humvee with a trailer attached to it and painted desert tan. But it never had any real weapons mount overhead, in the bed, or on the passenger side. DUMVEE = Desert Humvee and was just a cargo-hauling Humvee essentially. The DUMVEE kind of replaced the dune buggy FAV because a Humvee can haul passengers and gear compared to a dune buggy.

During the 1991 Gulf War, U.S. Special Forces just propped their light machine guns on the dashboard or jury-rigged some roof platform to fire from. But the Brits had their neat desert Land Rovers so the U.S. figured why not buy Land Rovers instead of jury-rigging all these Humvees where no two look or acted the same.

Then came the Land Rover/WMIK with the Rangers which had weapons mounts, but wasn't really configured for long range patrol or use. The Rangers just used them as transport and fire-support, not fast attack vehicles because they knew that the WMIK cannot stand up to enemy fire with no real armor or cover. The WMIK replaced the DUMVEE because the DUMVEE had no weapon mounts....just a stripped down Humvee and a trailer.

Here is how a DUMVEE looked like....just painted tan.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/m998.htm

Due to the lack of cargo hauling capability (not to mention having people hanging all over a WMIK), the GMV (top B/W photo) was developed which is a Humvee with more horsepower, hauling, and carrying capability than the WMIK and DUMVEE. The GMV is essentially an A2 "Expanded Capability" model Humvee of the AM General "Special Operations" version. It has a more powerful engine, winch, roof, lightweight weapons ring, rear bumper, etc. The contractor takes out the metal cabinets, adds bed slats, and other modifications to Army SF purposes. Now all GMVs look and act the same.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/hmmwv-special-apps008.jpg

So the Jane's book is correct in some regards in that the WMIK replaced the DUMVEE....correct like eight years ago, but no longer. SF operators don't like the WMIK because it's cramped and can't haul much, especially in the desert unlike the GMV. . A C2005 book on the U.S. Rangers said that the GMV has replaced the WMIK in Ranger use. The GMV (Pro Art's model) replaced the WMIK (Accurate Armor model). The M998 Special Forces DUMVEE is obsolete.

Thanks for the detailed reply, Peter. Actually, Jane's didn't say the Landy was replacing the Humvee. They'd just listed it as in use by US SOF (the Jane's recognition guides are just that, not much background info). I'd heard that the US military is looking to replace the Humvee and was wondering if the Landy was in the running that's all.

The Brit and Aussie SF units seem quite happy with the Landy as an attack vehicle.

You mean just because you read it in a book it isn't automatically true? Oh no, the modeling world cannot accept that statement as fact!

Thanks for the info Peter.I guess the old saying "you learn something new every day" stands true today,for me anyways.

I still like the name DUMVEE!!

Jim

I suggest you pick up the Humvees in OIF book or whatever from Concord. US Special Forces use a whole different bunch of them, in all kinds of configurations ie: round roll bars, square ones, extended headlights, non-extended, doors, no doors, add armor, no armor, tires of all makes...
The list can go on and on, but alot of their stuff became add-hoc along the way.
I doubt any version you build would be wrong. Just not factory spec'd in 1/35.

May I also suggest the book HUMVEES AT WAR. It is a new release with the most useful and accurate info to date.

Thanks Arnold,
Ive seen this book and yes it is good,but I'm really looking for details on the Canadian ones in Afganitsan.They are/were used by the Jiont Task Force 2 boys early on.

Jim

Funny that the US Marines are using the German G-Wagen, while the German KSK is using Humvees!

Ooops, you're right. I misread your statement. Sorry.

I don't know if the Land Rover is a contender for replacing the Humvee...maybe if one can put add-on armor to it. I would think that the Humvee replacement would be heavier than the Humvee.

Here is where the Army and Marines differ though and I kind of doubt any joint program would work. The Army wants a replacement that seats four. The USMC wants one that seats six (battlefield experience). So unless the replacement has add-on seats, I can't see how both services are going to compromise unless the requirments say the other two troops can be 1/6 seated action figures :-)!

US Spec Ops now use a variant of the HUMVEE with additional seats and foot platforms on the rear quarter panel. These vehicles also have a built on ramp with a ladder on the back cargo area.
No designation number unfortunately.

[quote The Army wants a replacement that seats four. The USMC wants one that seats six [/quote]

Well, I guess that rules out the Wolf/WMIK cos the strike versions only seat 3!

A little more background on the two different Humvee replacement programs...

The Army a couple of years back knows it wants new trucks because it has the FMTV, M939, and M35. The truth is the maker of the FMTV is not "experienced" in making trucks (politics here). When you think of American trucks, you think of Mack, Oshkosh, Freightliner, Peterbilt, Ford...you don't think of the maker of the FMTV. Look on the highway and see the last truck the maker of the FMTV made. Go to the LHS and find a commerical truck made by the maker of the FMTV...you can't. The FMTV maker's name isn't an American household name and yet it makes trucks .

As such, the FMTV cannot replace the M939 at the rate the FMTV is being produced.

Hence the "Truck Rodeo" which will occur this year because the Army needs to replace a lot of trucks, mainly medium and heavy.

Now the USMC has their 7-ton Oshkosh MTVR, which I heard runs rings around the FMTV so the USMC doesn't really care for a new Medium Truck...but they sure want a Humvee replacement fast and maybe a heavy truck replacement.

I read that the Humvee is pissing off the Marines---they want a replacement fast....faster than the Army it seems.

So then the US Army wanted a Humvee replacement too because the M1114 isn't produced fast enough. The problem with the M1114 is that it takes a conventional Humvee off AM General, ships it down south to O'Gara Hess, strips the interior, and uparmors it, meaning the M1114 doesn't roll off the factory floor already armored, but more like stuffing feathers in a bought pillow sack and sewing it all together by hand. This takes time and money (something like $100,000 for a Humvee and $550,000 for a M1114...all hand-labor for the M1114). This isn't O'Gara's fault because they uparmor commerical civilian cars, trucks, and SUVs for VIPs, movie stars, Government Law Enforcement, and rich people....not for military. As such, O'Gara does custom-jobs, not mass production of armored cars.

The USMC wants a Humvee replacement that can seat six because experience in Iraq shows more troops are needed than say three (one being the driver. With six, that's a dismount of five), the Army wants one that can seat four. Of course the big conflict is that the Army goes by Air Force and the USMC by Navy---a Navy ship has more space than an AF plane. I think the USMC wants one that's armored with a turret (like an armored car) and a V-hull and the Army wants one that can have add-on armor attached but is still Humvee-like, meaning I think the USMC has a set list of requirements compared to the Army that just wants more armor. The USMC wants to remedy the problems it experienced in Iraq; the Army just wants a new light truck to replace the wearing-out Humvees. See, two different agendas here.

So then someone saw Army...USMC...combine the two and save money (wave wand)....done! Now the effort is "joint" and the Army and USMC are pooling their management and money together.

This makes sense for the upcoming Army "Truck Rodeo" where contenders from U.S. and overseas will come, but who knows if the USMC picks one and the Army picks another.

This also happened with the Army Special Forces picking the Pandur, the runner-up to the Piranha III which became the Stryker. By picking the Pandur stock, the Spec Forces didn't need to wait for General Dynamics to trim and shim and modify the Piranha III to make a Stryker; the Spec Forces got their 6X6 armored car NOW.

A Jtf-2 Humvee would look really neat in scale. But to answer some of the uncertanties yes they were loaned from the US (and delivered on site to boot even!). This is only a temporary move until we get our nice new Mercedes.
That is one huge difference between our SF team and other ones around the world. In combat, other SF teams like to use their heavily modified vehicles a lot. JTF-2 usually like to blend in, and does most of their mods to the inside or try to make them small so as not to be noticed. (Although sadly this is a declining trend even for JTF-2).

If anyone is up to the challenge, it would be neat and unique to see a JTF-2 team with their black Suburbans (yes I know not technically a military model, shoot me), with at least one having the assault ladder mounted on it.

Edit: I may think about taking on this challege if I can find a few 1/35 SWAT Teams that would fit nicely. Shouldnt be that hard to find a model Suburban (although Im not sure how easy it would be to find it in the right scale) and Im sure I can find a ladder and jerry-rig something, or pull a ladder assembly off a fire truck. Hmm...may even be able to covert the remaining ladderless truck into an airfield fire engine.