Hi,

I am a newbie that just returned to modeling after many years..And I must say this site rocks!!...

To get some experience, I am starting by building some Tamiya cars....especially rally cars, but I also have a 1/32 Tamiya Zero that I wanna do in a couple of months when I get better with all the different techniques cuz I want it to be perfect...

For now, my question is this: Is it possible to apply a wash to matt acrylic paints (in this case Tamiya)?.. Or do I have to put a gloss coat on it first, then wash, then apply a matt coat?...Which would mean that if I would want to wash a white painted part, I am better to use gloss white first than matt white which will spare me the gloss coat step?...

Or if I a am doing a cockpit interior which is usually "flat cockpit green", and I want to wash it, do I have to gloss it then wash it, and finally re-matt it?...

Help me, I am confused.....

Hugues

:-)Hi HDMod and welcome to this site, yep it "rocks".
It is possible to apply a wash to a matt surface but the wash tends to go where you don't really want it, because of the miniscule valleys created by the matt paint. I always used to apply washes in cockpits to the matt paint, sometimes it was OK. I now Paint the cockpit colour, paint on Klear (a clear floor polish) wash and add a matt cote. The 3 Messerschmitts that I am doing for the Luftwaffa group build didn't need a matt cote in the cockpits the wash seemed to matt them down.
The real trick to using a wash is to protect the paint from the affects of the thinner used in the wash. A gloss cote helps the wash to spread but means that you can wipe it off from areas where you don't want it. Then you matt varnish to give the final effect. If it's matt you want. So if you are going to use white spirit, turpentine or other solvent for the wash base then you basically require an acrylic gloss cote. However it's not quite that simple, which is why I use Klear. It can take alot of abuse. Modellers will find their own ways of using techniques but this is what I do and it works for me (I model WWII aircraft):
a) Paint model, airbrush,(gloss or matt dosen't matter).
b) Brush on Klear, thin cote.
c) Apply decals.
d) Brush on Klear, thin cote.
e) Add wash.
f) Matt cote.
g) Detail paint, paint chips, gunstains, exhaust stains. Drybrush if required.
Quit a bit more to it than that but thats about the order of things, for me.
Hope this helps and dosen't confuse you even more.
Mal
I've got a couple of models in the "Rivit review" board, a Hellcat F6F-5 and a Dewotine 250, both at stage e). I have matt coated them and hopefully tomorrow, if the light is OK I will take some pics and you can see the difference, hopefully. There is also a Ju 87 B-2 Trop at stage g).
I've sent you a PM to help clarify things.

I'll catch lots of flak for this, but I do like to wash over matte finishes. The techniques I use are mainly for armor but will work on aircraft (I used to build those too before I realized my armor models always turned out better). You don't want to be doing this on the exterior of your airplane but it'll look good in the cockpit, weapons bays, landing gear, etc.
1. Paint your surface whatever color you want it. Tamiya acrylics usually dry very matte and almost chalky when brushed on.
2. wait a day or two for the paint to dry
3. get some artists acrylics (these are not the same as tamiya paint) they come in small tubes or plastic squeeze bottles, my favorites are Folk art and Delta Ceramcoat, get yourself some black, a medium grey, and any variety of rusty browns (burnt sienna, burnt umber).
4. With the acrylics diluted in water and applied over a matte finish, you'll be able to do an initial sloppy wash with your darkest color, try to push the watered-down paint into corners and around raised details, as it begins to dry, you'll be able to controll it a bit better and use it almost like a gauche to add a tint, or clear film of paint over the original surface, this will make the cockpit seem more "used"
5. when this is dry you could add a second, more controlled wash to bring out your details, the colors will blend a bit once you rewet the old wash, but thats ok.
6. if a droplet of paint./water dries in the middle of a flat surface, it'll leave a stain, you can rub these out with a damp Q-tip.

I know it sounds a bit iffy when explained w/o photos but try it out, you said you build cars, try it on the seats or floor carpeting.

For the main surface of the plane you wont want to use this technique, for that you should go ahead and apply a clear coat first. Use a wax floor polish, like Future (or whatever they call it where you live). then do your wash, and finally apply a satin finish coat. Aircraft aren't really matte, even a zero out at sea, wouldn't have a compleatly flat finish. Also be aware that there are some folks out there who won't do a wasgh on aircraft, because they think it over-accentuates the panel lines and since they're already out of scale.....yadda yadda, its a question of artistic vs. realistic. Matter of taste really.

Hope I wasn't too confusing,


Ralph

Hi Holdfast,

I've got a q for you here. After step g, what would (or do) you do to hold in the gunstains/pastel exhaust stuff? Do you have another layer of matt coat on this?

I'm having a real problem trying to figure out what to do after I add the washes. The thing is, I do have access to Future, and can spray the painted model to get an overall gloss coat, to mount the decals and put the washes. But I don't have access to Dullcote, so I'm not sure about what I need to do after that step.

My method otherwise would be :
1. Paint model
2. Apply Future only to the decal areas, and add decals.
3. Spray a coat of acrylic clear matt medium.
4. Drybrush and add exhaust stains(using pastels) etc.
5. Again spray with a acrylic clear matt medium.

Would this sequence work? Or would I end up blowing away my exhaust stains which i created?

Advice appreciated.

TIA, BP.

Hi Ralph, you won't be catching any Flak from me, Not only do we "Ralph's " think the same, but HDMod's question really comes down to what a modeler prefer's. I also rather apply my washes over a MATTE PAINT finish or MATTE CLEAR COATS. I have found that I have better control over the wash and where it run's ....especially when applying "pin or localised " washes. I have tried washes over GLOSS finishes and I just don't care for the result's ......their to uncontrolable in my opinion and don't cover as well. The best advise I can give to HD is to try both methods and use the one that gives you the more satisfiying results

HERE IS A QUOTE FROM AN ARTICLE ON WASHES:
A wash will adhere differently to gloss and matt surfaces. Sometimes
it may be hard to make the wash stay where you want it on a glossy
surface. In such case you will need to reapply it as many times as
it's needed, or paint the model with matt or semi-matt varnish before
you apply the wash. ( by Martin Waligorski ).

- ralph

Thanks guys for all your advice, I will try these techniques and see which one I prefer...And I a am not so confused anymore......

Regards

:-) Hi BornToDig,
Washes are definately one of those techniques that you develope over time. I used to have the same problem as viper29_ca, in his post on this board, "Learned the hard way".
ie the wash removing the paint, then I realised that the paint needs protecting or something other than a solvant must be used. So I turned to water colours. They weren't as free flowing as the oil paint wash that I had been using, to remedy that I started gloss coating. Then read about Klear (Future) and the rest, as they say is history.
I notice that you use artists acrylics. I haven't tried them so thanks, I'll give them a try on my next cockpit (I don't like having to gloss cote the cockpit, to many steps).
Initially washes are a big EEK factor, so when you find a method that works you are reluctant to change. So no flak from me.
Hi bytepilot,
You could certainly add gun and exhaust staining before the matt cote. One reason that I don't, and this will sound daft but I'm a modeller!! is I can't wait to get the matt cote on, I just love that transformation, from sort of "toy" to replica. Sounds daft I know. By adding the stains after the matt cote you run the risk of making a mistake that you cant just wipe off, but I'm pretty confident with my airbrush. The main reason though is that the stains need to be subtle and any finish over them could alter them. So no, I don't put anything over the staining. One other point, over a matt cote you could use drybrushing to add the staining, which you couldn't, or would have difficulty doing over a gloss cote.
As to wether or not you would blow away pastels with a further cote, I honestly don't know, I've never used pastels, but I would asume that you would need some kind of coating over them.
Mal

Thanks for the info. Now for one more q !

I'm asking since you mentioned that you don't use pastels. What do you use for exhaust stains? Do you do them with an airbrush? Or do you hand brush these on?

Drybrushing i know.. dip brush, wipe off till no paint.. blah blah. So no problem there ! Just would like to know what you do to finally prevent your lovely models from gathering dust!

Thanks,
BP.

What do you guys use a clear cote and how do you apply it ?
I know some people have had problems with some enamel based cotes. Would you rather recomend an acrylic one ? Do you brush it on or do you airbrush it ? if you airbrush it, do you thin it, and with what product ?