hello guys!
i'm currently building dragon's henschel king tiger (ardennes "44). i want to put a tank commander on the cupola but while the kit came with some german troops, it didn't come with a tank crew.
i looked around for the appropriate figures but all i could find was a dragon tank aces kit (which i bought) and a tank crew kit for the russian front, 1943 (which i didn't get).
what would be the proper set of uniforms (especially the tank commander) for the ardennes offensive? what colors should i use? could i "convert" the russian front tank commander to an ardennes tank commander by simply changing his uniform/camo colors? this is my first try painting figs and i must confess i really don't know much about unifroms. thanks in advance for any help.
Figures
Military figures of all shapes and sizes.
Military figures of all shapes and sizes.
Hosted by Darren Baker, Mario Matijasic
battle of the bulge tank commander subtitutes
steelskin
Joined: July 04, 2006
KitMaker: 180 posts
Armorama: 104 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 09:41 AM UTC
HONEYCUT
Joined: May 07, 2003
KitMaker: 4,002 posts
Armorama: 2,947 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 12:34 PM UTC
Gday Rovik
I don't do German armour as a rule, but if you were to image search the internet using key words like Ardennes German tank crew, etc. I think you'd find there would be plenty of figures available, and eliminate the need to convert a Russian front figure... Even try a search on the advertisements on this page like 'Tank' figures, 'Alpine' etc...
Hope this helps
Cheers
Brad
I don't do German armour as a rule, but if you were to image search the internet using key words like Ardennes German tank crew, etc. I think you'd find there would be plenty of figures available, and eliminate the need to convert a Russian front figure... Even try a search on the advertisements on this page like 'Tank' figures, 'Alpine' etc...
Hope this helps
Cheers
Brad
Drader
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 3,791 posts
Armorama: 2,798 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 01:06 PM UTC
This site might give you some idea of the appearance of the tank commanders, as well as occupy quite a bit of your time 
ss501panzer.com
ss501panzer.com
steelskin
Joined: July 04, 2006
KitMaker: 180 posts
Armorama: 104 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 01:47 PM UTC
thanks brad,
if I understand correctly you’re suggesting i order my figures over the internet. unfortunately rules for importing items into my country, along with the taxes that have to be paid would make it too much of a hassle. i had a very bad experience when i bought a 1:16 rc pershing tank and i don't want to go through it again.
david,
i've already been to the site you suggested. it was what inspired me to choose the king tiger for my second build. there are a few photos and video of of german tank crews but since they're in black and white, i still have a problem with the color. i came across a brief description of the uniform however, which says they were black and this seems to agree with the pictures i've seen.
if I understand correctly you’re suggesting i order my figures over the internet. unfortunately rules for importing items into my country, along with the taxes that have to be paid would make it too much of a hassle. i had a very bad experience when i bought a 1:16 rc pershing tank and i don't want to go through it again.
david,
i've already been to the site you suggested. it was what inspired me to choose the king tiger for my second build. there are a few photos and video of of german tank crews but since they're in black and white, i still have a problem with the color. i came across a brief description of the uniform however, which says they were black and this seems to agree with the pictures i've seen.
exer
Joined: November 27, 2004
KitMaker: 6,048 posts
Armorama: 4,619 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 02:45 PM UTC
The figure in the leather jacket would do as would the other standing figure in the Tank Aces set, although he probably be wearing a sweater over his shirt and tie.
Who makes the Eastern front kit you mentioned, you can probably use them for the Ardennes AFAIK there was no special kit for tankers issued only on the Eastern Front.
Who makes the Eastern front kit you mentioned, you can probably use them for the Ardennes AFAIK there was no special kit for tankers issued only on the Eastern Front.
steelskin
Joined: July 04, 2006
KitMaker: 180 posts
Armorama: 104 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 07:48 AM UTC
thanks pat. i can't recall the name of the company that produced the kit. i'll check again this weekend when i drop by the hobby shop. all i know is it was more expensive than the dragon tank aces kit (nearly twice) and the kitmaker's name was one i hadn't come across in any of the modeling forums. i'll let you know soon as i can.
aaronpegram
Joined: January 10, 2005
KitMaker: 137 posts
Armorama: 53 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 09:46 AM UTC
Hey Rovik,
I am building the same KT, and faced the same problem. I snagged myself the Winter Panzer crew (FST109) through Firestorm models here in Australia. Check out their in-house figures at http://firestormmodels.com/ They're perfect for the Ardennes Offensive.
A.
I am building the same KT, and faced the same problem. I snagged myself the Winter Panzer crew (FST109) through Firestorm models here in Australia. Check out their in-house figures at http://firestormmodels.com/ They're perfect for the Ardennes Offensive.
A.
steelskin
Joined: July 04, 2006
KitMaker: 180 posts
Armorama: 104 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 12:59 PM UTC
thank you aaron! too bad its such a hassle to bring items into my country.
i'm a little confused. my mind tells me that since the ardennes offensive was launched in december 1944, it would be winter (please correct me if i'm wrong. i live in a tropical country and am not familiar with your seasons) and your suggestion of using a tank crew in winter uniforms would be logical.
however, the pictures and video i saw in the "tigers in the ardennes" website (http://www.ss501panzer.com/index.htm) seems to show the tank crew wearing the black uniforms. i'm trying to depict a king tiger on the first day of the campaign like what was shown in the video. perhaps they weren't wearing winter uniforms yet? i also checked out pictures of some ardennes king tiger builds and most depicted tank commanders in black. what do you think?
i'm a little confused. my mind tells me that since the ardennes offensive was launched in december 1944, it would be winter (please correct me if i'm wrong. i live in a tropical country and am not familiar with your seasons) and your suggestion of using a tank crew in winter uniforms would be logical.
however, the pictures and video i saw in the "tigers in the ardennes" website (http://www.ss501panzer.com/index.htm) seems to show the tank crew wearing the black uniforms. i'm trying to depict a king tiger on the first day of the campaign like what was shown in the video. perhaps they weren't wearing winter uniforms yet? i also checked out pictures of some ardennes king tiger builds and most depicted tank commanders in black. what do you think?
exer
Joined: November 27, 2004
KitMaker: 6,048 posts
Armorama: 4,619 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 02:36 PM UTC
In the Osprey book "Ardennes 1944: Peiper and Skorzeny" the crews seem to be wearing cold weather gear. THowever there is a colour plate of an SS officer with the black panzer uniform over a pullover and with pea pattern trousers. I would say you can mix and match, the book shows a wide variety of uniforms worn by the SS. They wouldn't all have changed to cold weather gear at the same time
GeraldOwens
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 3,736 posts
Armorama: 3,697 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 02:55 PM UTC
The black wool Panzer uniform was reasonably warm in temperate conditions, but the winter of 1944/45 was the coldest in 30 years in western Europe--while the Ardennes Offensive was launched before the snow started falling, it was very cold and foggy. It is possible the crew inside the vehicle could have been in the temperate woolen uniform, as the heat from the engine helped keep things a bit warmer, but the commander usually rode with his head and shoulders out of the hatch, both to help guide the vehicle and to watch for threats, so it seems likely he would at least have his winter jacket on. This was the same reversible jacket issued to infantryman on all fronts, white on one side, and either splinter camouflage or gray on the other (the trousers were matching). If the driver was sitting with his head out for any length of time, he would be bundled up as well. Some SS units received a special sheepskin jacket, but this doesn't turn up so much in the west. Some SS panzer units also acquired black leather submarine uniforms instead of the black wool--check photos for this item--it will be slightly shiny. They sometimes turned up in Normandy, but were probably not warm enough by themselves for the Ardennes.
The panzer uniform was also available in spotted camouflage cloth for the SS, and less commonly, in splinter camouflage for the Army (the SS 501st was the most photographed Tiger Battalion in the Ardennes, but the Army 506th was also present). However, the black uniform remained common until the end of the war.
Miniart has just released a very nice set of German Panzer crewman in winter uniforms--perhaps that was the set you saw.
The panzer uniform was also available in spotted camouflage cloth for the SS, and less commonly, in splinter camouflage for the Army (the SS 501st was the most photographed Tiger Battalion in the Ardennes, but the Army 506th was also present). However, the black uniform remained common until the end of the war.
Miniart has just released a very nice set of German Panzer crewman in winter uniforms--perhaps that was the set you saw.
Blade48mrd
Joined: September 03, 2004
KitMaker: 1,185 posts
Armorama: 810 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 07:04 PM UTC
Rovik -
This is probably my favorite area, the 'Battle of the Bulge' and the King Tigers used in it. I've got two more of Dragon's KTs waiting to be started. "Drader" gave you the best site I've found for info on sSS PzAbt 501 and it's King Tigers. "GeraldOwens" gave you some great info and most pictures I've seen (like in Concord Publications "Battle of the Bulge" and "Panzers of the Ardennes Offensive") support this. It definitely was cold, foggy (though no real snow til around 25 Dec) so a 'Winter' approach would seem to be best (even for "Heer" unit sPzAbt 506 I'd think). Photos of Peiper (1st SS Pz) show him favoring the black leather submarine jacket over the SS panzer uniform. Along "Drader" and "GeraldOwens", "thebear", "Kelley","Biggles2", and "Ericadeane" are the guys I've relied on for accurate info and their expertise so maybe you can get some further valuable info from them. I've got several (actually more than several) tank commander figures that would work for 'Battle of the Bulge' and King Tigers. I've got some "Warriors", "TaNK", and "Firestorm" (my preference) resin figures. Send me a PM with your address and I'd be more than happy to donate/send you a couple, just let me know.
Blade48mrd
This is probably my favorite area, the 'Battle of the Bulge' and the King Tigers used in it. I've got two more of Dragon's KTs waiting to be started. "Drader" gave you the best site I've found for info on sSS PzAbt 501 and it's King Tigers. "GeraldOwens" gave you some great info and most pictures I've seen (like in Concord Publications "Battle of the Bulge" and "Panzers of the Ardennes Offensive") support this. It definitely was cold, foggy (though no real snow til around 25 Dec) so a 'Winter' approach would seem to be best (even for "Heer" unit sPzAbt 506 I'd think). Photos of Peiper (1st SS Pz) show him favoring the black leather submarine jacket over the SS panzer uniform. Along "Drader" and "GeraldOwens", "thebear", "Kelley","Biggles2", and "Ericadeane" are the guys I've relied on for accurate info and their expertise so maybe you can get some further valuable info from them. I've got several (actually more than several) tank commander figures that would work for 'Battle of the Bulge' and King Tigers. I've got some "Warriors", "TaNK", and "Firestorm" (my preference) resin figures. Send me a PM with your address and I'd be more than happy to donate/send you a couple, just let me know.
Blade48mrd
AJLaFleche
Joined: May 05, 2002
KitMaker: 8,074 posts
Armorama: 3,293 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 07:56 PM UTC
Blade48mrd
Joined: September 03, 2004
KitMaker: 1,185 posts
Armorama: 810 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 08:08 PM UTC
Al -
Alpine makes some outstanding figures also and I'd almost forgotten about those. Thanks. Do you have them? I'll have to add these to the 'stash' it looks like for future use. I was wondering, since they're are 'standing', if you could modify them to fit in the tank cupola? Like cutting them and if they'd fit?
Blade48mrd
Alpine makes some outstanding figures also and I'd almost forgotten about those. Thanks. Do you have them? I'll have to add these to the 'stash' it looks like for future use. I was wondering, since they're are 'standing', if you could modify them to fit in the tank cupola? Like cutting them and if they'd fit?
Blade48mrd
AJLaFleche
Joined: May 05, 2002
KitMaker: 8,074 posts
Armorama: 3,293 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 08:21 PM UTC
I don't have these but certainly with a bit of surgery theycould be palced in a turret.
Blade48mrd
Joined: September 03, 2004
KitMaker: 1,185 posts
Armorama: 810 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 08:32 PM UTC
Thanks. I think I'll order a couple sets and give it a try.
Blade48mrd
Blade48mrd
steelskin
Joined: July 04, 2006
KitMaker: 180 posts
Armorama: 104 posts
Posted: Friday, August 11, 2006 - 11:40 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The figure in the leather jacket would do as would the other standing figure in the Tank Aces set, although he probably be wearing a sweater over his shirt and tie.
Who makes the Eastern front kit you mentioned, you can probably use them for the Ardennes AFAIK there was no special kit for tankers issued only on the Eastern Front.
seems you're right pat. checked the kit again and seems i confused a tristar tank crew for normandy (this was the more expensive kit i talked about) with the dragon tank crew LAH division in russia 1943.
steelskin
Joined: July 04, 2006
KitMaker: 180 posts
Armorama: 104 posts
Posted: Friday, August 11, 2006 - 11:51 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Rovik -
This is probably my favorite area, the 'Battle of the Bulge' and the King Tigers used in it. I've got two more of Dragon's KTs waiting to be started. "Drader" gave you the best site I've found for info on sSS PzAbt 501 and it's King Tigers. "GeraldOwens" gave you some great info and most pictures I've seen (like in Concord Publications "Battle of the Bulge" and "Panzers of the Ardennes Offensive") support this. It definitely was cold, foggy (though no real snow til around 25 Dec) so a 'Winter' approach would seem to be best (even for "Heer" unit sPzAbt 506 I'd think). Photos of Peiper (1st SS Pz) show him favoring the black leather submarine jacket over the SS panzer uniform. Along "Drader" and "GeraldOwens", "thebear", "Kelley","Biggles2", and "Ericadeane" are the guys I've relied on for accurate info and their expertise so maybe you can get some further valuable info from them. I've got several (actually more than several) tank commander figures that would work for 'Battle of the Bulge' and King Tigers. I've got some "Warriors", "TaNK", and "Firestorm" (my preference) resin figures. Send me a PM with your address and I'd be more than happy to donate/send you a couple, just let me know.
Blade48mrd
awww...you don't have to do that mike. but thanks for the gesture. really appreciate it! i live in quezon city in the philippines so it might not be practical for you to send me a figure. i think i can make do with that tank ace figure i have. its probably ok if i paint the jacket in black. some of the finished kits i saw looked like the commander was wearing the leather submarine jacket you just described. hey, those alpine figures posted by al are incredible!
Blade48mrd
Joined: September 03, 2004
KitMaker: 1,185 posts
Armorama: 810 posts
Posted: Friday, August 11, 2006 - 12:04 PM UTC
Rovik -
Not a problem and as I said, I've got plenty. Even added more today and ordered the Alpine figures. I'd be more than happy to help out. I've sent 'Angela' a couple things and she lives in Cebu, Lapu Lapu City. Quite familiar with routine so again just send a PM with address if you're interested. Good luck and keep us posted on progress.
Blade48mrd
Not a problem and as I said, I've got plenty. Even added more today and ordered the Alpine figures. I'd be more than happy to help out. I've sent 'Angela' a couple things and she lives in Cebu, Lapu Lapu City. Quite familiar with routine so again just send a PM with address if you're interested. Good luck and keep us posted on progress.
Blade48mrd
steelskin
Joined: July 04, 2006
KitMaker: 180 posts
Armorama: 104 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 10:21 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Rovik -
Not a problem and as I said, I've got plenty. Even added more today and ordered the Alpine figures. I'd be more than happy to help out. I've sent 'Angela' a couple things and she lives in Cebu, Lapu Lapu City. Quite familiar with routine so again just send a PM with address if you're interested. Good luck and keep us posted on progress.
Blade48mrd
mighty kind of you mike! really sorry i missed this post. i've already sent you a PM. thanks!
 |
WEB HOSTING BY
Copyright ©2021 Armorama and Kitmaker Network, a subsidiary of Silver Star Enterprises
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.