Hi guys,

Gathering reference again,
Anyone has photos of the real ones,as in Dargon's version of it?

Or some close up or decent photos of any others.?

THANKS

hey

only found one pic of the tow bar it's not a close up but maby you can use it


,Gijs

Here is one from Primeportal

Erik

Can anyone supply one or two resin copies of this towbar?

I'll get ya one Nick. Sorry I haven't emailed you back, took a long weekend. I'll email you tommorw. The towbar pic may take a few days, but I'll get ya one.

Mike

Thanks for your replies guys!

There'll be a Tow Bar set along with the other kits to be released.
Unfortunately I've only spotted 2 "variants" of the tow bars...I've completed the masters for one (same type in Sabot's gallery), and the other -I'm still still working on. And I can't find real photos of Dragon's version..so I'm lost.

I'd like to release at least 3 "different types" in a set. But if I can find more than there'll be more included of course.


Erik, I must have missed that photo on Prime Portal-which link is that exactly?

Michael, no worries, I'm just glad there's been so much help coming from all you guys.

Thanks,
Nick

Unfortunately I don't remember the source of these photos - I hope the author wouldn't mind that I post them here.

EDIT: I just realized that these are Sabot's (Rob Gronovius) photos from his motorpool gallery. And this is the type of tow bar that is supposed to be represented in DML kit. If there are any significant differences between what is on these photos and kit parts they are not intentional.

Pawel

How often are these carried?

No, no one can do that. If you want DML towbar buy DML kit. Making resin copies of parts from the kit to give or sell them to anyone is illegal.

Pawel

Legends M1 US Tank Accessory set LF 1029 comes with a towbar and tons of other goodies. Squadron sells it for about 20$. And it is perfectly legal...

Erik

Thanks Pawel for your reply and PM.

I'll post an "edited" pic of the tow bar I've done, once the gallery is operational again.

I will post a clear pic in the future of all 3 tow bars I've done and you guys can see for yourself.. until then, I would like to keep the details under wrap.
The release date is along with the rest of my kits at the end of the year.

The only 2 issues left that I am conteplating is :
(1) In what option should I "replicate" the little pins used to lock the rods. (perhaps I should include a jig for shaping the "wire" to simulate the pins.)

and

(2) How many tow bars to include in a set
For this..I would really like to know how many you guys would prefer, considering that I found so far 3 "versions". Of which I believe are carried by other vehicals other than the Abrams.

THANKS
Nick

Sorry for the late reply, Nick. Here is the Primeportal link .

Erik

Thanks for the copyright infrigement information, gentlemen. My request for copies was not intended for "rip-offs" of the Dragon material, or of any other protected item. When the original post carried the message of the author making his own tow bars, it was those items I was interested in.

It appears that in being too quick to rush to judgement, the original intent was not realized by some of the other readers. I am still hoping to acquire one or two tow bars for my use. I am well aware of the Legends accessory kit, and already possess it, but thanks for the information regarding that set.

It was inferred that I might be "less than motivated" (a polite translation for what appeared in a reply post) in seeking to purchase a simple item like a tow bar. For me, finding enough time to complete one successful model in a year taxes my free time, and if I can find someone who has the talent to produce a needed part, whether from a garage or a factory, I'll use that source. "Work smarter, not harder" is a lesson we could all benefit from.

I remember being somewhat less-than-enthused when I purchased a complete resin kit in the late 80s from a producer that is still in business. This was a direct rip-off of a well-established injection-molded kit, and the original trademark located under the hood of the truck had been removed and replaced by the resin company. I wrote to the company and stated my observation, which was replied to with a comment that I didn't have to buy any further products from his company.

So, all-in-all, I am still looking for "tow-bars", which can be somewhat generic in appearance, as I don't care what the rivet-counters think about a tow bar. If a membar can be of service regarding this, please contact me.

Thanks for listening.

Well there are different levels of copywright infringement. Someone scanning an Osprey book page and emailing it to a friend does not violate anything . Posting it on line may technically not either, but its typically not considered ethical. If you copy parts and GIVE them to a buddy thats no big deal either, you just can not sell them as a product. Just like any NFL game says for the private use of our viewers, as in you can tape it and share it, just not sell it.

Thanks Erik for the link.

On a side note, Dragon's AIM is the best kit around. I have a couple now and will certainly be getting a lot more..

OK here's the edited pic - which does not show the detail but the overall shape is pretty clear. ..sorry but I don't want to reveal too much details as yet..

I will post pics of All 3 Versions around end of the month or so...keep a look out on this post..
So......Ideally, how many tow bars would you guys want in a kit?

I put mine together in the AIM kit tonight. Engineered well, looks fantastic, and its going on my model wether its accurate or not to be there.

And Nick that little peek looks pretty darn much like the real one just a few posts up

This had to be the dumbest place to hang a towbar. It sure liked to soak up the heat.

I would assume that the crews carry the tow bars mounted to save time hooking onto a friendly tank if theirs is disabled. Would a tank ever have a second set mounted so that a friendly tank could hook onto the front or rear in a hurry?

Tank platoons are made up of four tanks, broken into 2 sections ( A section, and B section). They operate off the "wingman" concept. Ideally, one tank in each section carries a towbar. BUT... towbars often seem to walk off on their own. Crews lose parts of the towbar (knuckles, cotter pins, r-clips) and "acquire" them by unseemly means. Its not unusual for a tank platoon to only have one towbar for the whole platoon. If more than one tank goes down, they end up relying on other platoons in their company/troop. So no, you will never see a tank with more than one towbar. Keep in mind, tow cables can be used as well. There is a greater potential for damage from the towed tank slamming into the towing tank, but it's not unusual for tanks in iraq being recovered with tow cables.

NTC is the only place I've been where you had to have a tow tank and a brake tank. Because of the mountainous terrain, you would have a towing tank, the disabled tank, and then a tank in the rear that served as a brake tank in case the brakes on the lead tank went out. Two towbars would be used.

From the pictures I've seen posted here and elsewhere, it only shows the towbar mounted on the rear above the grills, and on the front slope. In Iraq we got tired of hooking the knuckles to the front and back, having to wiggle it to get the pins out, etc. So we ended up storing it on top of the turret. We opened the bar slightly and stowed it over the Cross-Wind sensor, with the sensor in the up position.

Aaron, that's some interesting info.

OK sorry if it sounds like a dumb question but I can't figure it out...With the tow bars being secured at the rear..and those engines ablazing..shouldn't that really heat up the tow bars..!? and if towing operation is required then...what happens..? ..Wouldn't the bars be too hot to handle? Please explain




Are these their "official" names?
What is the correct names for - The tow bar with the "attachment"-the one which IS attached to the vehicle? And what do call the other bar?




You wouldn't happen to have a photo?

Thanks,
Nick

Here's what seems to be another way to mount the tow bars; its on the left side of the hull, above the sideskirts and behind the external fire extinguisher.



I prefer this style of mounting rather than in the front or rear.



BT6

Just came across this drawing on tpub.com . It may help with the official designation of the different parts....
FIGURE 324. HEAVY DUTY TOW BAR ASSEMBLY (from TM 9-2350-256-24P-1)


Here's the corresponding caption :
1= Towbar, motor vehicle
2= Pin, groved, headed
3= Pin, lock
4= Clevis, rod end
5 & 6 = Towbar, motor vehicle

( AFAIK #3 is also called R-clip..)

HTH
Frenchy

Hi Nick,

Frenchy answered your question about the actual names for those pieces on the tow bar. The clevice is what we call "knuckles." I do not know off hand what the official nomenclature is of the Towbar, but the same towbar used on a tank is used on a Bradley. A tank can tow a Bradley, but a Bradley cannot tow a Tank. The towbar for a humvee looks very similar, but is smaller and does not rate a tank or brad.

Yes, the towbar gets pretty hot when on the back above the grill, so most crews usually dont put it back there....BUT, if it is back there, you can put on your nomex gloves, and you can handle it. You just need to turn the tank off before you take it off, or you get drowned out in heat! Keep in mind, when hooking up the Towing tank to the broken down tank, the Tow tank will have a heat sheild on to channel the hot air up, away from the crew. That heat sheild stays on during movement to keep from burning the crew. It is fabricated by welders at the battalion level, and is usually unpainted, rusty, and very rough looking. The new Dragon M1A1 AIM comes with a heat shield. When not on the grill we store it on the Rails on the sides of the sponson boxes.

The pic of the tank with the towbar mounted on the side of the hull represents a pair of mounts you can order through your Battalion maintenance. The mounts come in, and your Battalion welder welds them to the side, so there will be weld seams. My unit ordered them, but ordered the wrong kind, mounts for an M-88, which wouldn't fit on the M1.
I knew of one Battalion, 2-7 IN that went to OIF III that had those mounts. And it is a Bear to undo the Mounts, hold the tow bar, and keep it from falling on you. You need at least 3-4 men to get it off the side.

I'll look at my pics and see what I can come up with for the towbar on top of the turret.

Hmm....does anone have closeup pics of those mounts? Hopefully it would be a straightforward scratchbuild exercise.

Thanks.



BT6