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How Useful Do You Find Reviews & News?
wbill76
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Posted: Friday, October 13, 2006 - 08:25 AM UTC
I use both the News and Reviews sections similar as I would online news headline alerts in my email box. :-) They alert me to new products from various manufacturers for different kits in the AM realm and serve as an "imminent" notification on release for new/expected kits...and I can plan my next purchasing strategy accordingly or not.

I look at reviews from multiple sites to see if there's any consensus or disconnect one review to another, sometimes this happens, but mostly the reviewers generally have the same things to say, because well they are all looking at the same kit. I do look at the contents pics to get a closer look at what's in the box for some things especially PE or other "extras", but unless a reviewer points out something really wild, it's unlikely to influence or change my buying decision one way or another. Not every new kit or item gets reviewed at each site or at the same time, so multiple sources helps with that. I do enjoy them in the format posted here at Armorma and while they don't necessarily point out potential pitfalls or snags in the same way that a full build-up might, they still provide more details than I'd have otherwise. A good case in point is the T34/85 Premium review, until I saw just how far DML had gone with their upgrade on this particular vehicle, I was content to stay with the older kit in the stash...but not any longer.

As far as having the same set of designated reviewers doing "in-box" reviews, I can see the value there from an editorial/consistency standpoint provided enough SMEs are available to cover the range of samples coming in. I've seen no real significant delays in the postings of new kit Reviews so the system seems to be working well IMHO. I do agree that more SBS or WIP type threads in the main Armor forums would be beneficial to others coming along or interested in building the same kit (especially the older or lesser known "stars") but even when done casually in a thread that takes some effort/work on the part of the builder/poster and when people don't show an interest or response (even when they look) that kind of sends the message that people aren't interested so why bother? Lastly when I see Feature articles of this type posted, I read them with avid interest regardless of subject matter simply because it's a great way to see how someone else did what they did in a little more detail.
Plasticbattle
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Posted: Friday, October 13, 2006 - 11:34 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I do agree that more SBS or WIP type threads in the main Armor forums would be beneficial to others coming along or interested in building the same kit (especially the older or lesser known "stars") but even when done casually in a thread that takes some effort/work on the part of the builder/poster and when people don't show an interest or response (even when they look) that kind of sends the message that people aren't interested so why bother?


Bother? People are interested. At the moment, you only have made the ground build ... running gear and gotten the hull together.
There´s already 8 posts and 328 views. Wait until you start adding detail, painting and weathering. Most will come back at least once to check progress and a lot more will find it late and read through the whole thread ... start to finish. By the time you get this model finished, you´ll be surprised at how many hits this will have.
You´ve done a great job so far, good images and clear, informative text. This will make a great feature build ... and all the hard work is already done!
wbill76
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Posted: Friday, October 13, 2006 - 09:46 PM UTC
Frank,

Sorry for the misunderstanding around the "why bother" comment, I'm not referencing my own SBS thread, I can see the views/counts and understand what that means but many others may not. I know that having 300+ views and a few replies is good, especially given the stage it's at. My point though is that others may not recognize that, only seeing that a lot of people look but don't answer and might assume that no one's interested because they've got nothing to say, silence sometimes being much worse. Of course, I'm not advocating that vacuous answers of "good job" and "looks great" start populating every thread, but humans being humans, feedback and encouragement helps reinforce what they are doing and they'll keep at it. For builders that are not sure of themselves or how their work might be received, there's a lot of anxiety around putting themselves out there like that and so many won't do it. There's always that dread that it's not "good enough" or will be "torn apart" by so-called rivet counters that lurks in the backs of their minds. That's what I was getting at, relying solely on WIP or SBS threads for older kits to add depth works only if people will voluntarily do it on their own and feel secure enough to do it regularly.

Clanky44
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Posted: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 07:50 AM UTC
As far as reviews go, I find the quality of this sites reviews to be on par, if not higher than comparable sites. It seems that opinions differ on the usefulness of 'out of box' reviews. My personal view seems to be in line with most modellers I talk to,.... being, that a review is of... some use being 'out of box' but minimal in use compared to a 'built up' review. With this said, the effort and time needed, not to mention the out of pocket expense, to put forth a built up review, makes this option, difficult.

One last point, reviewing is a thankless job, half the time you are reviewing a subject matter that might not interest you, and once completed, the review might go silently into the night.....seemingly unseen.

If you do decide to do reviews, do it for the good of the hobby and for the good of this site, and not for any self-gratifying reasons.

Frank
jimbrae
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Posted: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 01:24 PM UTC

Quoted Text

a review is of... some use being 'out of box' but minimal in use compared to a 'built up' review. With this said, the effort and time needed, not to mention the out of pocket expense, to put forth a built up review, makes this option, difficult



There, I think, Frank 'nailed' it. In an ideal world, we would have full-build reviews for EVERYTHING. However, we can't because the logistics are simply unavailable to us.

Regarding the News Section, one of the more 'difficult' parts of the job is actually getting people to submit. Here, as in many other aspects of life there are those who participate and those who watch. There are two problems with News Submissions - firstly, not actually getting any. Secondly, submissions which are two lines of text, no images etc. In a word, unusable. The strength with News is not the 'Mega' releases, but rather the small AM companies just starting out. The majority of News on Armorama is actually about AM manufacturers. This is definitely something more people could contribute to.

Of course, contribution is something that many more people could actually do - not just in News but in the Forums in general...Jim
jazza
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Posted: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 02:43 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Of course, contribution is something that many more people could actually do - not just in News but in the Forums in general...Jim



Ever thought about providing some incentives for it? Im not referring to tangible incentives either. Just a simple award / rank / badge next to their name or profile tha signifies that the person is a high contributor. You can see how the rank system in the forum generates such high usage. Im pretty sure a little recognition like this would go a long way.
Gunny
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Posted: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 03:13 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Of course, contribution is something that many more people could actually do - not just in News but in the Forums in general...Jim



Ever thought about providing some incentives for it? Im not referring to tangible incentives either. Just a simple award / rank / badge next to their name or profile tha signifies that the person is a high contributor. You can see how the rank system in the forum generates such high usage. Im pretty sure a little recognition like this would go a long way.



OK, time for my two cents. . .

Jeremy, please don't take this as a personal attack, either, mate, just a general comment to any and all who is listening or following this thread. . .
An award or recognition for adding content?

I'm sorry, folks, I just don't see the usefullness of an "incentive program" for adding content, or sharing News stories on the website that you are a member of, active or not. . .

I mean, truthfully, with a super dynamic resource such as KitMaker at your fingertips available any time of the day or night, 24-7, for absolutely no cost at all, is a terrific deal, IMHO, and having the chance to contribute something back to this free resource, and also adding a valuable piece of information to the permanent databanks of the site, should really be enough incentive for anyone.
All site members should really take the time to discover ALL of the sites capabilities, which are really impressive, actually unbeatable, IMHO!

If you cruise through the various site forums, rarely does a few days go by that you will see a thread from a member announcing this or that product that they just heard about, or have an "inside" piece of information on a new product, and it's posted in the forums. . .well, why not take the extra step (which, by the way, is only one click on the "Send us News" button), and make a formal News story out of it, where it will be stored until the end of time to make it easier for another modeler who may be looking for this information? Doesn't that really make more sense than a forum thread, that will most definitely get lost in the shuffle. . . It's quite simple, very user friendly (and I will be MOST happy to walk anyone through the process, if need be!) and you as the contributing member will get full credit for the story, and you will have your very own "News by Jazza" link that will bring up your News story submittal history. . .
jimbrae
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Posted: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 04:13 PM UTC
Mark is absolutely correct in his comments although, without a shadow of a doubt, users like Jeremy AREN'T the kind of people I was referring to as 'armchair warriors'

I'd be against incentives for precisely the same reasons although even those who don't submit to the site can still make a contribution with (for example) A-Guard Membership ...Jim
Sabot
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Posted: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 10:58 PM UTC

Quoted Text

An award or recognition for adding content?

I'm sorry, folks, I just don't see the usefullness of an "incentive program" for adding content, or sharing News stories on the website that you are a member of, active or not. . .



A little history lesson here. Back in early 2002 when the site was a few months old, it consisted of just the forums and a small member gallery (still mainly empty). One of the ways we got our first large scale submission of content (reviews, build ups, etc.) was the first Armorama Submission Drive/Contest.

It took place during the spring/summer of 2002 and ended around September 2002. Many of us "Old Timers" donated kits as prizes for the different categories like aircraft, armor, warships, etc. I think Jim even got some books signed by Steve Zaloga to award as prizes.

Without this "contest", our content may not have ever even gotten off the ground. I understand that times have changed in the last 4 years and the site now draws substantial content on its own, but to dismiss the usefulness of an idea without even considering it is small minded and shortsighted. Especially considering that it has been used successfully by this site in the past.
staff_Jim
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Posted: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 11:15 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I think Jim even got some books signed by Steve Zaloga to award as prizes.



Ack... sacrilege!... they were signed by none other than Shep Paine himself.

I would not be against some kind of contributor award or "badge" provided it could be done in an automated way that does not slow down the operation of the forum.

What most members don't realize from a purely technical point of view is that to have that data available means a system would have to be constructed to store who is, and who isn't, a review contributor - a news contributor - a features contributor. And that data, although kept in rather LARGE tables with all the review, news, and feature data can not be scanned through 50 times on every topic page to display the 50 users that may show up on said page. So... as I said a bunch of code would have to be written to check and then store when a person has gotten a badge and when(or when not) to show it.

Right now I am more tied up with re-coding the user sign-up process.

Although I think I did fix the rank promotion bug that may have been plaguing some people.

Jim
Removed by original poster on 10/20/06 - 01:20:40 (GMT).
Sabot
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Posted: Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 02:20 AM UTC
Oops, sorry. Memory is failing. Now that I think about it, I knew Steve's name wasn't correct.
jazza
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Posted: Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 11:37 AM UTC

Quoted Text

having the chance to contribute something back to this free resource, and also adding a valuable piece of information to the permanent databanks of the site, should really be enough incentive for anyone.



Ironically, i do agree with you that sharing should occur without ulterior motives ie: badge of recognition etc however if no added encouragements are given to members, armorama is still faced with the lack of participation for news, reviews and build features. We basically arent any better off.


Quoted Text

. .well, why not take the extra step (which, by the way, is only one click on the "Send us News" button), and make a formal News story out of it, where it will be stored until the end of time to make it easier for another modeler who may be looking for this information?



Most of the time, i do noticed these threads are one liners. ie: "Hey DML site posted their new products...check it out here . " I do believe if a member clicks on the submit news link and submits just this one liner, it wouldn't get pass the editors to be published on the site. This means additional work required to "beef" up the news. Its that additional time that perhaps some members may not be willing to commit.

In the end though, i do think the same as you do and i most certainly will continue to contribute to this site without needing any form of recognition but if we hope to stimulate more action from members to submit news, reviews and build features, more coaxing might be required. The "cheapest" form of coaxing was a graphic of some sort but it seems Jim.S might not agree its the cheapest. :-)


Quoted Text

What most members don't realize from a purely technical point of view is that to have that data available means a system would have to be constructed to store who is, and who isn't, a review contributor - a news contributor - a features contributor. And that data, although kept in rather LARGE tables with all the review, news, and feature data can not be scanned through 50 times on every topic page to display the 50 users that may show up on said page. So... as I said a bunch of code would have to be written to check and then store when a person has gotten a badge and when(or when not) to show it.



Does all the current graphic work through the same code and db query? ie: rank, A-guard and avatar? I obviously wouldnt know the setup of armorama but if you are finding that a DB query is causing the delay, you can try venturing into using global temp tables which are stored in memory. That way you dont have to run queries on large tables every single time, just have a temp table for specific areas like the rank etc.

Its funny you mentioned processing time though as i just attended a demo for a performance test tool by Mercury called LoadRunner. It was able to identify if the processing time was either taken up by executing the code or if it was the db query that took the most time. If you used a similar tool, it may at least help you figure out whats causing the most lag.
panic
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Posted: Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 02:17 PM UTC
essentail
Grumpyoldman
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Posted: Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 04:41 PM UTC
Since I really don't spend much time searching the web, unless I'm looking for references, I have no web access from work, as many others do, I get my news here, so I would say I find the news extremely useful.
wbill76
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Posted: Friday, October 20, 2006 - 04:10 AM UTC
On a side note since there are several threads and posts about participation, usage, preference, etc. that pop up from time to time, I stumbled across this, ironically enough as a "lurker" . http://www.useit.com/alertbox/participation_inequality.html

It talks about the participation tendencies of online communities following a 90-9-1 rule. I wonder if the same applies here or if it's better/worse?
Hollowpoint
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Posted: Friday, October 20, 2006 - 05:01 AM UTC
Interesting thread.

The more News or Reviews I can get, the better.

To me, the News is just fun -- "Gosh, I've been wanting a kit of that for years" or "Dang, I just scratch-built one of those!" This week it was "Holy smokes -- no Stryker for so long and now we have THREE!"

If I'm thinking about buying a kit, I like to read as many reviews as I can so I can get an idea of what I am getting into. If anyone is relying soley on a single site for all their modeling information, well ... to say it nicely ... they are missing a lot. All reviewers, like all modelers, have different skill and knowlege levels. And sometimes, even the most experienced models miss something. That's why I like to read at least a few reviews before I buy. Also, "In-box" reviews are useful, but they don't tell you how things fit or how good the instructions are. "Build" reviews are always much preferred.
wbill76
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Posted: Monday, October 23, 2006 - 04:31 AM UTC

Quoted Text


I'd be against incentives for precisely the same reasons although even those who don't submit to the site can still make a contribution with (for example) A-Guard Membership ...Jim



I personally would love to be able to do this...but the only links/pointers I can find indicate that subscriptions/memberships are disabled for the current time?
Gunny
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Posted: Monday, October 23, 2006 - 04:42 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


I'd be against incentives for precisely the same reasons although even those who don't submit to the site can still make a contribution with (for example) A-Guard Membership ...Jim



I personally would love to be able to do this...but the only links/pointers I can find indicate that subscriptions/memberships are disabled for the current time?



That's very true, Bill, temporarily!
Our CEO is at work developing the new subscription service, as we speak, soon to be unveiled!
~Gunny
Grumpyoldman
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Posted: Monday, October 23, 2006 - 06:13 AM UTC
Forgot to mention- Senile you know- :-) that I find the reviews useful also, especially if it's of a subject I'm interested in, or a detail or after market set I may pick up in the future.
troubble27
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Posted: Monday, October 23, 2006 - 08:53 AM UTC
Hi Jim,

I do find the reviews here very useful. much like yourself, I also look at PMMS periodically. To sum it up in less then 50000 reasons, there are a lot of models on the market any more, and many of the same subject. Its impossible to know which one is the best one to buy without having bought all of them to compare yourself. We all know how frustrating it is to be all excited about a new model that has shown up at our doorstep, only to open it and be completely dissappointed. So, what I read here both in reviews and from other members, has a lot to say about which models I purchase and from which manufacturers. Keep up the good work and great reviews!
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