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What is the purpose of Zimmerit?
Grasshopp12
Joined: September 28, 2002
KitMaker: 757 posts
Armorama: 459 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 03:33 AM UTC
I know this is question probably has an easy answer but, what is Zimmerit used for? I thought I heard somewhere it was an antimine system, but how? (As you can probably tell, I'm not really in to WWII German armor, though I am looking in to starting up as there are a number of cool looking kits out there).
Wolf-Leader
Joined: June 06, 2002
KitMaker: 1,225 posts
Armorama: 520 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 03:44 AM UTC
Grasshopper,
The purpose for the Zimmerite on the armor vehicles is to keep the magnetic mines from sticking to the sides of the vehicle.
As far as I know it , the paste, was made from paster or mud mixed with sawdust. I could be wrong, but that is what I heard. 
The purpose for the Zimmerite on the armor vehicles is to keep the magnetic mines from sticking to the sides of the vehicle.
As far as I know it , the paste, was made from paster or mud mixed with sawdust. I could be wrong, but that is what I heard. 
sgirty
Joined: February 12, 2003
KitMaker: 1,315 posts
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Posted: Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 03:44 AM UTC
Zimmerit was a paste like substance used to keep magnetic mines from sticking to the armor. I have no facts in front of me but I think it was used from about mid-'43 to very early '45 and was something like 1/8 of an inch or less thick.
There are numerous methods you can use to replicate this on models. Personally I like the Cavalier sets the best. Also Jaguar is making PE sets to replicate this as well.
Take care, sgirty
There are numerous methods you can use to replicate this on models. Personally I like the Cavalier sets the best. Also Jaguar is making PE sets to replicate this as well.
Take care, sgirty
Rico
Joined: September 13, 2002
KitMaker: 66 posts
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Posted: Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 03:52 AM UTC
While we're on the subject, has anyone used the Eduard PE zimmerit? I've been using Atak resin zimmerit, and it's great stuff, but it costs about as much as the kit. The PE stuff is about 10 bucks cheaper. But I'm wondering if it's realistic? Is it hard to apply over curved surfaces? That sort of thing.
Grasshopp12
Joined: September 28, 2002
KitMaker: 757 posts
Armorama: 459 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 06:33 AM UTC
Hmm, interesting. Thanks for the clarification.
Oddly enough my next question is exactly what Rico asked, how is Eduard's PE Zimmerit?
Oddly enough my next question is exactly what Rico asked, how is Eduard's PE Zimmerit?
Desert-Fox
Joined: October 22, 2002
KitMaker: 652 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 06:37 AM UTC
AAAAAAAARRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH
This topic again? lol
May I recommend that you search the forums? You will then find ALL your answers and that this topic was exhaustively discussed a few months ago.........
I need to keep my hair, so can't go over old ground on this one hehehehehe.
This topic again? lol
May I recommend that you search the forums? You will then find ALL your answers and that this topic was exhaustively discussed a few months ago.........
I need to keep my hair, so can't go over old ground on this one hehehehehe.
whiterook
Joined: December 18, 2002
KitMaker: 263 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 07:15 AM UTC
screamingeagle
Joined: January 08, 2002
KitMaker: 1,027 posts
Armorama: 595 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 08:22 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Grasshopper,
As far as I know it , the paste, was made from paster or mud mixed with sawdust. I could be wrong, but that is what I heard.
Hi Jeff.
In 1943 Zimmerit was introduced. It was a mix of:
40% barium sulphate - 25% polyvinyl acetate - 15% ochre pigment - 10% saw dust - 10% zinc sulphide.
This would mix into a paste. When spread over the armored surface, mines were unable to stick to it . In Sept.1944, it was ordered that Zimmerit was to cease being used. The order's were given because of rumors saying that an exploding shell could ignite the Zimmerit and catch fire even if the shell didn't penetrate the armour, causing the vehicle to burn & be lost. The rumors were never proven, and even though the orders were never reissued, it is said that Zimmerit was still applied to some vehicles for some time after this date. Besides the main purpose of the Zimmerit, another advantage was It made the tanks & tank destroyers exterior surface's less reflective ....... at times making it more difficult to see.
- ralph
SniperSoldier
Joined: August 09, 2002
KitMaker: 1,638 posts
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Posted: Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 08:40 AM UTC
INTERESTNG - THANKS FOR THE POST
ROBERTO
ROBERTO
SS-74
Joined: May 13, 2002
KitMaker: 3,271 posts
Armorama: 2,388 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 12:58 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextGrasshopper,
As far as I know it , the paste, was made from paster or mud mixed with sawdust. I could be wrong, but that is what I heard.
Hi Jeff.
In 1943 Zimmerit was introduced. It was a mix of:
40% barium sulphate - 25% polyvinyl acetate - 15% ochre pigment - 10% saw dust - 10% zinc sulphide.
This would mix into a paste, when spread over the armored surface, would make mines unable to stick to it . In Sept.1944, it was ordered that Zimmerit was to cease being used. The order's were given because of rumors saying that an exploding shell could ignite the Zimmerit and catch fire even if the shell didn't penetrate the armour, causing the vehicle to burn & be lost. The rumors were never proven, and even though the orders were never reissued, it is said that Zimmerit was still applied to some vehicles for some time after this date. Besides the main purpose of the Zimmerit, another advantages was It made the tanks & tank destroyers exterior surface's less reflective ....... at times making it more difficult to see.
- ralph
I have nothing to add to this expert and in depth comment.
Only one thing though, Zimmerit is also great for modellers, (more variety), and Aftermarket companies...one more chance to get money from modellers... #:-) #:-) #:-) #:-) #:-) #:-) #:-) #:-) #:-) #:-)
screamingeagle
Joined: January 08, 2002
KitMaker: 1,027 posts
Armorama: 595 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 01:37 PM UTC
Dave your way too kind, but I appreciate the comment.
It's only what I learned and I'm just passing it on to the forum & Jeff in my word's. - Speaking of word's I see a couple of minor errors, I will edit the reply.
- ralph
It's only what I learned and I'm just passing it on to the forum & Jeff in my word's. - Speaking of word's I see a couple of minor errors, I will edit the reply.
- ralph
KentVH
Joined: December 20, 2002
KitMaker: 96 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 02:42 PM UTC
Everyone is saying that the mines stuck to the tank. Is the a fact or is a magnetic mine called that because as the steel tank came in close enough proximity to the mine it activated a magnetic switch causing the mine to explod. That is just what i thought.
Tiger101
Joined: March 02, 2002
KitMaker: 902 posts
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Posted: Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 03:47 PM UTC
What you are describing is a magnetic proximity mine. They were developed after WWII for land use. The Germans used mines with magnets that were attached to vehicles by hand and time delayed to explode, they feared that the Russians had them too ( they did not ). The British used them for anti ship mines Lympets (sp) not against tanks. Proximity mines are fairly new to the battlefield, however they have been used by navies for years.
Selrach
Joined: January 04, 2003
KitMaker: 466 posts
Armorama: 378 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 09:01 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Zimmerit was still applied to some vehicles for some time after this date. Besides the main purpose of the Zimmerit, another advantage was It made the tanks & tank destroyers exterior surface's less reflective ....... at times making it more difficult to see.
- ralph
Thats interesting to know... Very useful info :-) Thanks
Roadkill
Joined: June 09, 2002
KitMaker: 2,029 posts
Armorama: 822 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 09:24 PM UTC
I tought I replied to this before, hmm maybe to much glue sniffing #:-)
On Armorama you can find a good article about Zimmerit Histoy and how to model it.
Zimmerit
On Armorama you can find a good article about Zimmerit Histoy and how to model it.
Zimmerit
KFMagee
Joined: January 08, 2002
KitMaker: 1,586 posts
Armorama: 1,225 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 09:44 PM UTC
Zimmerit was all a plot to drive scale moders crazy in their attempt to recreate the effect on small plastic models. While not factually proven, the widespread belief is that much of the intent has been successful! :-)
zululand66
Joined: August 07, 2002
KitMaker: 233 posts
Armorama: 216 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 02:09 AM UTC
Hi All,
A couple of things about zimmerit: only the Germans manufactured a magnetic mine, but figured other armies would begin fielding them. Personally, I believe it may have also been an attempt at developing a better camoflage system. The rough surface would make it easier to blend an AFV in?
Eduard's zimmerit is great. I use slow setting superglue and it worked fine. E-mail me if you want to see some pics of my Panther G with it. I'm planning on using it on my upcoming Tiger (mid production).
Regards,
Georg
- I never make the same mistake twice, I make new ones.
A couple of things about zimmerit: only the Germans manufactured a magnetic mine, but figured other armies would begin fielding them. Personally, I believe it may have also been an attempt at developing a better camoflage system. The rough surface would make it easier to blend an AFV in?
Eduard's zimmerit is great. I use slow setting superglue and it worked fine. E-mail me if you want to see some pics of my Panther G with it. I'm planning on using it on my upcoming Tiger (mid production).
Regards,
Georg
- I never make the same mistake twice, I make new ones.
Rico
Joined: September 13, 2002
KitMaker: 66 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 03:20 AM UTC
I've read in a few books that it was standard practice that whenever the Germans would come up with a new weapon (like magnetic mines) or a new tactic, they'd immediately set about finding out how to defeat that weapon or tactic. So even if they were the only ones with magnetic mines, their vehicles would be equipped with the means to defeat those mines. Though I've also read that the Russians had such mines, and several panzers were lost because of them. And that the British had some sort of "sticky mine". Who knows, you can read five different books and get five different answers #:-)
keenan
Joined: October 16, 2002
KitMaker: 5,272 posts
Armorama: 2,844 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 02:22 PM UTC
I don’t think zimmerit had anything to do with camouflage. It was developed as anti-magnetic mine paste. How many blurry black and white photos have will all stared at trying to see the zimmerit pattern? As an aside, the Russians trained dogs to run under tanks with mines strapped to their backs. It didn’t really work out well on the battlefield.
Antitank dogs
Antitank dogs
PaulHanson
Joined: February 16, 2003
KitMaker: 175 posts
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Posted: Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 02:49 PM UTC
Actually, zimmerit was thicker than 1/8" That's the reason that it was ridged. The coating would be around 3/4" to 1" thick without the weight of a 1" thick solid coat applied to the Panzer. The weight of a zimmerit coating on the average AFV was 45kg(I'm still looking for the actual figure and in which book I found that.)
PH
PH
screamingeagle
Joined: January 08, 2002
KitMaker: 1,027 posts
Armorama: 595 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 03:51 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I don’t think zimmerit had anything to do with camouflage, It was developed as anti-magnetic mine paste.
Yes exactly,
BUT another advantage was It made the tanks & tank destroyers exterior surface's less reflective ....... at times making them more difficult to spot.or see.
- ralph
keenan
Joined: October 16, 2002
KitMaker: 5,272 posts
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Posted: Monday, February 17, 2003 - 05:06 AM UTC
Yeah, SE, I'll give you the less reflective part. You're right.
bison44
Joined: August 27, 2002
KitMaker: 471 posts
Armorama: 275 posts
Posted: Monday, February 17, 2003 - 05:17 AM UTC
Would the zimmermit have helped with bazooka rounds? Or would the affect of a thin coat of paint and sawdust do anything at all?
keenan
Joined: October 16, 2002
KitMaker: 5,272 posts
Armorama: 2,844 posts
Posted: Monday, February 17, 2003 - 06:32 AM UTC
I doubt it would have helped much, if at all. Bazooka, PIAT, panzerfaust, e&. rounds were shaped charges. The side skirts, schurzen, were designed to defeat shaped charges. (Much like today's reactive armor)
SgtBigAlski
Joined: December 22, 2002
KitMaker: 3 posts
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Posted: Monday, February 17, 2003 - 04:55 PM UTC
The funny thing about Zimmeret is that although it theoretically was installed to stop magnetic mines, in practicality it never did any good in this area. This is because when the Germans developed magnetic mines they were so paranoid fo their lethality the instituted AFV zimmeret. The irony is no one else had them or even developed them by wars end so it was all for naught 
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