Question about M3 Lee/Grant
Zuid-Holland, Netherlands
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Posted: Monday, November 27, 2006 - 01:51 AM UTC
Hi all,
Got a question about the M3 Lee/Grant.
I've seen some pics of M3 Lee tanks (various versions) with stamped road wheels:
I wonder if Grant tanks also used these road wheels? And did Grant tanks also used the longer 75mm guns seen on late production M3 Lee tanks?
Thanks,
Martin
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Posted: Monday, November 27, 2006 - 02:01 AM UTC
Martin,
Yes the Grants used both the M2 and M3 75 mm gun. The British and Aussies used the Grants 1st in combat and used the M3/M3A5. US Forces used the straight M3 and later the M3A3 (ARV M31s and M33gun tractors)
I have seen a few of the early stamped wheels (Formations make a sweet set!) and also the regular stamped wheels and even the dished ones on later M31s. As far as the suspension goes the early ones sported non-skid, then on to the straight armed variety that is seen on early Shermans with added ventilators and welded up side doors/ or no door, just vision ports.
I may have gone out on a tangent here I hope this helps you.
Chris
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Posted: Monday, November 27, 2006 - 02:16 AM UTC
Ok so a M3 Grant with long M3 75mm gun and stamped road wheels would be possible?
Not sure yet if I want to build a Grant or Lee, but I like the camouflage options of the Grant more....
Thanks!
Martin
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Posted: Monday, November 27, 2006 - 02:32 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Ok so a M3 Grant with long M3 75mm gun and stamped road wheels would be possible?
Not sure yet if I want to build a Grant or Lee, but I like the camouflage options of the Grant more....
Thanks!
Martin
Martin,
It might have to be a Burma Lee (Aussie) I don't recall seeing them in service with the Brtish. The Russian recived almost 1400 Lees - I have seen PLENTY of pix in Lend Lease service.
Chris
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Posted: Monday, November 27, 2006 - 02:46 AM UTC
Quoted Text
It might have to be a Burma Lee (Aussie) I don't recall seeing them in service with the Brtish. The Russian recived almost 1400 Lees - I have seen PLENTY of pix in Lend Lease service.
Chris
Chris, the Aussies didn't serve in Burma. The Brits used the M3's (Lees and Grants) there. The Aussies used a large number of M3 Mediums but only ever deployed three overses as dozers (grants) alonside the Matildas. Only one of these is believed to have fired a shot in Anger.
Al
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Posted: Monday, November 27, 2006 - 02:46 AM UTC
Zuid-Holland, Netherlands
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Posted: Monday, November 27, 2006 - 02:47 AM UTC
I'm aiming at a British or Commonwealth vehicle. I've seen some nice camouflage schemes on Grants used in N-Africa with sand, green, brown, white, black etc. Something different than the Lee in olive drab!
Or someone must have a real nice Lee camouflage scheme
Martin
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Posted: Monday, November 27, 2006 - 03:01 AM UTC
Quoted Text
http://anzacsteel.hobbyvista.com/Armoured%20Vehicles/m3ph_1.htm
Could help you
Hi,
Thanks for the link! Some real nice pictures.
Are the M3's on the last three pics Lee's in the Pacific? I'm especially interested in these pictures:
http://anzacsteel.hobbyvista.com/Armoured%20Vehicles/Images/leeph_1.jpghttp://anzacsteel.hobbyvista.com/Armoured%20Vehicles/Images/leeph_3.jpgAnd are the Lee's on these picture normal M3's?
Thanks!
Martin
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Posted: Monday, November 27, 2006 - 01:44 PM UTC
The Lees in the pictures look like they're either on trials or exercise in Australia, not in action. Australia retained its M3s for a while after WW2 which is why there are quite a few survivors. The ones in the photos are late versions with no side doors and with the commander's cupola replaced.
For British Lee/Grants in action in Burma, try the IWM photo database.
David
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Posted: Monday, November 27, 2006 - 01:49 PM UTC
Quoted Text
The Lees in the pictures look like they're either on trials or exercise in Australia, not in action
They are
Pennsylvania, United States
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Posted: Monday, November 27, 2006 - 09:37 PM UTC
David, what is the IWM photo database and how do I get there?
Thanks, John
Just another long suffering Philadelphia sports fan.
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Posted: Monday, November 27, 2006 - 09:49 PM UTC
Quoted Text
David, what is the IWM photo database and how do I get there?
Thanks, John
Here you go
IWM collections Select 'photographs' from the drop down in the top corner of the page above then play about with key words and things when you get to the search page.
David
Archaeology is destruction - providing you do it properly
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Posted: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 05:49 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I wonder if Grant tanks also used these road wheels?
I think so. Any Grants remianing in use by later in the war certainly would have been able to draw them from stores. You would be more likely to see mismatched sets as opposed to a complete set of the newer roadwheels.
Quoted Text
And did Grant tanks also used the longer 75mm guns seen on late production M3 Lee tanks?
I don't think so (someone tell me if I'm wrong). From what I know the Grants were produced in parallel with the earlier batches of Lees. I've sen some phtoos of Grants with the counterweights indicating the stabilizer system, but I can't remember seeing any with the long 75mm M3.
Paul Roberts
Paul Roberts
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Zuid-Holland, Netherlands
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Posted: Friday, December 01, 2006 - 02:41 AM UTC
Hi all,
Thanks for the information so far.
I'm also trying to understand how the (early) VVSS suspension worked....could anyone explain this to me? Or perhaps someone has drawings which show how this system excactly worked?
Thanks!
Martin
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Posted: Friday, December 01, 2006 - 02:51 AM UTC
Midway down this page, is an exploded view drawing from the M7 Priest tech manual. Hopefuly this will help
http://www.ferreamole.it/images/priest_man/m7_priest_02.htmRoy Chow
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Posted: Friday, December 01, 2006 - 02:58 AM UTC
Perfect! All I need!
Thanks!
Martin
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Posted: Thursday, December 07, 2006 - 02:24 PM UTC
And another question!
The 2 hull MG's.....were they really fixed or could they be moved? Looks like they were fixed but how do you aim then? Just drive in the direction of the enemy and fire? :-)
Also where was the gunsight of the 75mm hull mounted gun? In the periscope above the gun?
Martin
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Posted: Thursday, December 07, 2006 - 02:30 PM UTC
The 2 (or sometimes 1) bow MGs were fixed and aimed by the driver pointing the tank in the appropriate direction.
And yes the sight for the 75mm was periscopic.
David
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Posted: Thursday, December 07, 2006 - 03:01 PM UTC
Thanks for the info! Interesting thing with the bow MG's.....probably didn't work that good as they were deleted in late versions.
Martin
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Posted: Saturday, December 16, 2006 - 11:35 PM UTC
Guess what...another question.
What part of the round section on top of the 75mm gun mantle moves/rotates when the 75mm is rotated?
Thanks,
Martin
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Posted: Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 02:19 AM UTC
On Chris Hughe's website, look at the top of the 75mm sponson:
http://www.toadmanstankpictures.com/grant_12.jpgHopefully it's pretty obvious to you which part moved and what was the actual sponson roof. The part with the cast mark D37288 is the rotating part.
The fixed forward firing MGs were a leftover from prewar tank design. It was thought that the driver would keep enemy infantry pinned down was the tank advanced.
Roy Chow
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Zuid-Holland, Netherlands
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Posted: Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 02:41 AM UTC
Thanks! I see what part you mean, but it makes me wonder how far the 75mm could be turned? Looks like just a little bit to the left or right...?
Martin
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Posted: Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 03:12 AM UTC
That's correct. I think it was only a few degrees t the left and right. Look at the opening at the sponson face. The 75mm was a support weapon akin the the 75mm gun on the French Renault Char B1Bis. The idea was the tank would roll up, aim the weapon with the hull and then fire upon enemy fortifications and soft targets. The turreted 37mm gun was to take care of other enemy armored vehicles.
(the Char B1 Bis 75mm had NO right/left traverse -- all of its aiming was done through a very finely adjusted transmission that could turn the entire hull left and right by very small degrees. As a matter of fact, the gunner for the hull 75mm WAS the driver!)
Roy Chow
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Posted: Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 12:26 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks! I see what part you mean, but it makes me wonder how far the 75mm could be turned? Looks like just a little bit to the left or right...?
Martin
15 degrees to the left and 15 degrees to the right.
John
Zuid-Holland, Netherlands
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Posted: Friday, December 29, 2006 - 12:51 AM UTC
Ok, big thanks to all once again!
The questions just keep coming so here's another one....I came across this pic of a M3 Grant during operation Dragoon in South-France.
Does anyone know what colour scheme and markings were used?
Martin
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