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Proper colour for a Sherman Firefly
cropduster
Joined: July 04, 2004
KitMaker: 62 posts
Armorama: 49 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 08:02 PM UTC
Just finished a great little kit, Dragon's 1/72 Sherman Firefly Vc! This being my first English vehicle, I'm not sure what colour to use! WhichTamiya jar should I pickup, ( is us olive drab okay?)
Gunfighter
Joined: September 03, 2004
KitMaker: 743 posts
Armorama: 274 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 08:59 PM UTC
Drew - I recently researched the same thing and kept running across this formula:
8 parts of Tamiya XF-52 (Flat Earth)
8 parts of Tamiya XF-26 (Deep Green)
1 part of Tamiya XF-1 (Flat Black)
I mixed some up and it's definitely a different shade that I've seen bottled. FYI - I ran across that formula on multiple sites, so that's why I tried it out. I'm not expert on British WWII color, but it looks good to me.
- Frank
8 parts of Tamiya XF-52 (Flat Earth)
8 parts of Tamiya XF-26 (Deep Green)
1 part of Tamiya XF-1 (Flat Black)
I mixed some up and it's definitely a different shade that I've seen bottled. FYI - I ran across that formula on multiple sites, so that's why I tried it out. I'm not expert on British WWII color, but it looks good to me.
- Frank
tankmodeler
#417
Joined: March 01, 2004
KitMaker: 3,123 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 09:20 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Just finished a great little kit, Dragon's 1/72 Sherman Firefly Vc! This being my first English vehicle, I'm not sure what colour to use! WhichTamiya jar should I pickup, ( is us olive drab okay?)
The proper colour would be SCC15 Olive Drab and there is a White Ensign paint that is apparently a pretty good match.
Tamiya US OD is fine. If you want to be a bit more accurate you could add a dollop of medium or dark green to change the shade to a bit more green than the US OD. Just a little more green though and you can leave out the green entirely if doing a newly painted vehicles. It was only really noticable on older Fireflies as the UK OD faded a bit greener than the US version.
The paint mix given that is a pretty even mix of brown and green sounds like an attempt to make "Khaki Drab". There is no such colour as Khaki Drab and there never was. SCC15 Olive Drab is your colour.
Paul
exer
Joined: November 27, 2004
KitMaker: 6,048 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 11:26 PM UTC
Quoted Text
[There is no such colour as Khaki Drab and there never was. SCC15 Olive Drab is your colour.
(Panto crowd voice) Oh yes there is Tamiya make it XF51 :-) :-) :-)
KellyZak
Joined: August 19, 2003
KitMaker: 641 posts
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Posted: Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 12:05 AM UTC
Hi Drew, I managed to get away with using Tamiya's AS-9 RAF Dark Green Spray paint for my Firefly. 
goose
Joined: April 09, 2005
KitMaker: 200 posts
Armorama: 185 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 01:38 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Just finished a great little kit, Dragon's 1/72 Sherman Firefly Vc! This being my first English vehicle, I'm not sure what colour to use! WhichTamiya jar should I pickup, ( is us olive drab okay?)
Uhem! British Vehicle if you dont mind! :-)
I think that the olive drab is a bit to deep a green, you'd be surprised when you see the difference when to vehicles a re put side by side.
Tamyia do a Khaki Drab, i've used it on a few tanks and it seems a good match to me and it takes on the some shading well.
Dirk-Danger
Joined: September 06, 2006
KitMaker: 252 posts
Armorama: 33 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 01:55 AM UTC
The correct name of the colour used on British army tanks in WWII was 'Bronze Green'.
Xtracolour/Xtracrylix do a 'mid bronze green' and a 'deep bronze green'. According to the osprey book on the Churchill you should opt for the 'Mid'. Assuming that the Churchill and Firefly were the same shade
Lee
Xtracolour/Xtracrylix do a 'mid bronze green' and a 'deep bronze green'. According to the osprey book on the Churchill you should opt for the 'Mid'. Assuming that the Churchill and Firefly were the same shade
Lee
ericadeane
Joined: October 28, 2002
KitMaker: 4,021 posts
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Posted: Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 01:55 AM UTC
Hi Goose: Paul Roberts' saying that there wasn't an actual "Khaki Drab" is indicating that there was never an actual Khaki Drab color applied to UK wartime vehicles. It's one of those urban myths that's been propogated along -- until Mike Starmer's (and others) clearly pointed out this fact.
Read here for some info:
http://www.mafva.org.uk/PDF/BritishCamouflage1.pdf
Bronze Green was only an early war color too.
RC
Read here for some info:
http://www.mafva.org.uk/PDF/BritishCamouflage1.pdf
Bronze Green was only an early war color too.
RC
Gunfighter
Joined: September 03, 2004
KitMaker: 743 posts
Armorama: 274 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 02:22 AM UTC
Unless I mixed that formula wrong, the final color doesn't seem very Khaki to me. It's more like a deep green. Given that, should I look into another shade or run with what I've got? If I can get some pics to turn out, I'll post what I've got so far.
- Frank
- Frank
ALBOWIE
Joined: February 28, 2006
KitMaker: 1,605 posts
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Posted: Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 02:29 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The correct name of the colour used on British army tanks in WWII was 'Bronze Green'.
Xtracolour/Xtracrylix do a 'mid bronze green' and a 'deep bronze green'. According to the osprey book on the Churchill you should opt for the 'Mid'. Assuming that the Churchill and Firefly were the same shade
Lee
Whilst Bronze green was a UK ww2 colour it was NOT the colour that Fireflies were painted in. As Paul points out the colour was SCC15 Olive Drab (UK). Bronze green was an early war colour up to about 43. Unfortunately many old refrences perpetuated this myth (probably the same people that claimed the existence of the Firefly IIc) and it became a bit of a given until the excellent work of Mike Starmer. I would recommend his publications as the authoritave text on UK cam schemes and colours being exceptionally well researched from official documents.
The MAFVA link in the post above is really a must if you plan on doing UK vehicles accurately.
The Tamiya Khaki Drad is entirely the wrong colour but does make a good weathering colour for OD vehicles.
Cheers
Al
Dirk-Danger
Joined: September 06, 2006
KitMaker: 252 posts
Armorama: 33 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 03:07 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Goose: Paul Roberts' saying that there wasn't an actual "Khaki Drab" is indicating that there was never an actual Khaki Drab color applied to UK wartime vehicles. It's one of those urban myths that's been propogated along -- until Mike Starmer's (and others) clearly pointed out this fact.
Read here for some info:
http://www.mafva.org.uk/PDF/BritishCamouflage1.pdf
Bronze Green was only an early war color too.
RC
The mafva link certainly offers up many useful original MOD/Army references so yep, I would go with that too ahead of the Osprey publication.
Fortunately, SCC15 Olive Drab is very well represented - often as Khaki Drab and most paint companies produce it. The Tamiya one seems way too brown but I guess you can make your own decision on that. Remember also that at 1/72 you might need to give the paint a 'scale effect'.
Lee
cropduster
Joined: July 04, 2004
KitMaker: 62 posts
Armorama: 49 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 10:19 AM UTC
Wow, thanks for all the info, guys!!! I'm really looking forward to painting this lil' buggar!
Does anyone know where to get a good crew? I know Mig makes a nice set but are there any other companys that make good resin or metal tank crews in 1/72?
Does anyone know where to get a good crew? I know Mig makes a nice set but are there any other companys that make good resin or metal tank crews in 1/72?Gunfighter
Joined: September 03, 2004
KitMaker: 743 posts
Armorama: 274 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 09:11 PM UTC
Drew - can't help you with the figures, but I just wanted to say that looks fantastic. Please post pics once you've got it painted. Great job on the micro-PE!
- Frank
- Frank
Mahross
Joined: March 12, 2002
KitMaker: 837 posts
Armorama: 132 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 09:50 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Goose: Paul Roberts' saying that there wasn't an actual "Khaki Drab" is indicating that there was never an actual Khaki Drab color applied to UK wartime vehicles. It's one of those urban myths that's been propogated along -- until Mike Starmer's (and others) clearly pointed out this fact.
Read here for some info:
http://www.mafva.org.uk/PDF/BritishCamouflage1.pdf
Bronze Green was only an early war color too.
RC
This is quite correct. The myth was promulgated by Terence Wise in his book From D - Day to Berlin. He wanted some way to differentiate betwwen British and American Olive Drab, which are two quite different colours. Officially, and this is is from Army Council Intructions and Military Training Pamphlets, the basis of all doctrine in the British and Commonwealth armies, all British vehicles in normandy were to be painted in SCC15 Olive Drab, as other people have noted above. This is included all vehicle that had some form of major overhaul, be it repair or modification, such as the Sherman Firefly. An obvious exception to this is the Royal Marines Centaur's, which were in SCC4 Dark Earth.
Ross
Dirk-Danger
Joined: September 06, 2006
KitMaker: 252 posts
Armorama: 33 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 11:13 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Does anyone know where to get a good crew? I know Mig makes a nice set but are there any other companys that make good resin or metal tank crews in 1/72?
CMK also make a british tank crew set in resin as well as british soldiers. If you cant find them in a local store, we sell them in our shop.
http://military-precision.com/images/CMF72140.jpg
Regards,
Lee
tankmodeler
#417
Joined: March 01, 2004
KitMaker: 3,123 posts
Armorama: 2,539 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 11:52 AM UTC
Quoted Text
An obvious exception to this is the Royal Marines Centaur's, which were in SCC4 Dark Earth.
Ross,
I have never heard of the RMAG's Centaurs being SCC4. SCC2 Service Colour (Brown) or SCC15 OD are the normal points of discussion and the photos would bear out one of those two colours, but SCC4? Mind if I ask where you had seen that?
Thanks,
Paul
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