Victoria, Australia
Joined: May 07, 2003
KitMaker: 4,002 posts
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Posted: Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 12:09 PM UTC
Hullo all
Just picked up this beauty of a kit, but there is one thing that bugs the $h/t out of me... It is the 'recess' (for want of a better word) in the drivers' hatches for the periscopes... They are butt-ugly! I figure the majority of people would model their Sherman with at least one hatch open, and this is the side that looks terrible... Sure i like the idea of drop in periscope housings which can be rotated to suit, and look perfect when buttoned-up, but not at the expense of a reasonable looking underside of the hatch when displayed open...
Am I just being too picky?
Hmmm.....
this is the part I mean... The big rim to take the housing sits up far too high...
And here is a (blurry!) pic of the real thing
"There never was a good war, or a bad peace."
Benjamin Franklin
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: July 20, 2005
KitMaker: 346 posts
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Posted: Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 12:47 PM UTC
I had not realized there was such a 'step' in the model kit. I guess you can always file it down but the real thing looks almost flush.
Ah well,no one is perfect (ask Terry)
Cheers
Tony
Provincia de Lugo, Spain / España
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
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Posted: Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 12:53 PM UTC
I don't think it is - if I remember correctly that's the rubber padding which is included in the kit part - it isn't on the photo as it is one of these things which disintegrate over time. So it's rubber protection (ahem
)...
Wales, United Kingdom
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 3,791 posts
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Posted: Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 01:33 PM UTC
Wasn't the padding where the ejection pin mark is? The Tamiya M4 Early(ish) has a seperate part for the padding which goes there and would solve the problem (not guaranteeing that Tamiya is right of course).
BTW looking at Brad's photo - is the knob just under the periscope holder the locking pin for the periscope traverse? Also visible in this photo from Tanxheaven
David
Archaeology is destruction - providing you do it properly
Barlands Farm Model Boat Club 1993
Provincia de Lugo, Spain / España
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
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Posted: Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 01:41 PM UTC
Having just been thru the APG book on the M4a2, and looking at David's pic, it looks as if there were two clear styles of hatch interior. Unfortunately the APG book only has one image which corresponds to the style of the kit part and yes, as far as i can tell, if DML had tried to simulate padding, that would be (as far as one can tell) be correct...
Having said that, it now looks as if some careful sanding might well be in order....
Wales, United Kingdom
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 3,791 posts
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Posted: Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 02:43 PM UTC
My picture is of a restored Sherman VC so the hatch could have been supplied by a different component manufacturer.
Of course finding archive photos of M4A2 hatches will prove a challenge. This one from the IWM comes close but was shot from ground level.
David
Archaeology is destruction - providing you do it properly
Barlands Farm Model Boat Club 1993
Wales, United Kingdom
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 3,791 posts
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Posted: Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 03:39 PM UTC
Fingers crossed, this should be an Sherman III of 13th/18th Hussars on its way to load up at Gosport.
David
Archaeology is destruction - providing you do it properly
Barlands Farm Model Boat Club 1993
Victoria, Australia
Joined: May 07, 2003
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Posted: Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 05:37 PM UTC
I accept your challenge! I found a high def. archive pic of what I think is a Canadian MkIII... And colour to boot!
This clearly shows how flat the interior hatch detail is...
Quoted Text
So it's rubber protection (ahem )...
:-)
And to the best of my knowledge(!) David is right re the padding in a half-moon shape, but hven't seen it in archive pics... But you can just make out in the shadow the 'forehead' rubber cushion on the periscope housing...
"There never was a good war, or a bad peace."
Benjamin Franklin
Wales, United Kingdom
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 3,791 posts
Armorama: 2,798 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 06:03 PM UTC
I've blown up the second IWM image till it pixellated and there is a shadow towards the rear of the driver's hatch on the 13th/18th Hussars tank that might be the edge of a pad. Or not.
BTW I also noticed that it's a command tank with an aerial on the pot on the glacis. Didn't need to enlarge it to see that.
Trying to search the IWM collection at the moment is a nuisance, the search engine is up and down like a wick. And my copy of APG is back in Wales and not exactly accessible at the moment.
David
Archaeology is destruction - providing you do it properly
Barlands Farm Model Boat Club 1993
Arizona, United States
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
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Posted: Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 06:18 PM UTC
Brad. I think your complaint is about the thick, slotted support for the periscopes. Definitely not pretty.
Does all the interest in the inside of the hatches mean that we will see a new book devoted to "hatch variants"?
I found a nifty feature on the forums called HIDE USER.
I was going to try it on myself and go stealth, but it only works on other users.
Colorado, United States
Joined: February 01, 2003
KitMaker: 5,221 posts
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Posted: Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 06:22 PM UTC
My "Sherman Mk. III gripe" is that my LHS hasn't gotten their shipment in, so I haven't gotten my copy yet.
That said I will say that one area I've been less than thrilled by DML Shermans have been the underside of the hatch. They do such a great job on the outside of the vehicle, and also make great periscopes and such, then seem to give up on the inside. I agree, most modelers are going to want at least one hatch open. Personally, if you put a crew member in the open hatch the lack of interior detail isn't going to hurt, but the poor or wrong detail on the inside of the hatch will. Even though I'm normally too cheap to buy AM items, which is kind of why I like DML to begin with, I may need to look into getting some AM hatches just for this reason.
Rodger
If I'd had known grand kids were so much fun I'd have had them first.
Ask me about my Grand Son!
Metro Manila, Philippines
Joined: February 20, 2003
KitMaker: 5,762 posts
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Posted: Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 06:27 PM UTC
Now that is one nasty pin mark! Does the kit supply a padding? (Like the Tamiya released M4 early). If it does, then it's not a big problem. If not, that sux
--==Shonen Red==--
-=Filipino Modeler=-
Victoria, Australia
Joined: May 07, 2003
KitMaker: 4,002 posts
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Posted: Friday, December 15, 2006 - 09:06 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Brad. I think your complaint is about the thick, slotted support for the periscopes. Definitely not pretty.
Spot-on Randall... There are some really nice touches like the separate counter-balance springs for example. But *ick* that support's gotta go...
Quoted Text
Does all the interest in the inside of the hatches mean that we will see a new book devoted to "hatch variants"?
hehe no... A couple of conclusive photos should do the trick
Quoted Text
Now that is one nasty pin mark! Does the kit supply a padding? (Like the Tamiya released M4 early). If it does, then it's not a big problem. If not, that sux
No Ralph, not that I can see... I think some putty is called for...
"There never was a good war, or a bad peace."
Benjamin Franklin
Michigan, United States
Joined: December 11, 2003
KitMaker: 5,409 posts
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Posted: Friday, December 15, 2006 - 09:56 AM UTC
At least it's easier to remove some of the thickness rather than adding those gosh darn weld beads!!!!
You don't support the troops if you don't support the mission!
Kansas, United States
Joined: January 24, 2002
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Posted: Friday, December 15, 2006 - 11:24 AM UTC
The lip has to go. It's just there to hold the periscope plate -- a model gimmick to make placing the plate a bit easier. They did the same thing on the M4A3E8 kit.
Shave it off and the plate fits just fine in the remaining opening -- and it looks much better on the inside of the hatch.
Bob K
Owner, Kansas City FullMetalJacket -- two-time Armorama FFL Champions! 2005 and 2006
God Bless the Troops
Sero Sed Serio
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: July 20, 2005
KitMaker: 346 posts
Armorama: 315 posts
Posted: Friday, December 15, 2006 - 02:06 PM UTC
Great photo David.
Is that another aerial on the top of the turret in front of the commanders hatch?It's in a different position to the 'Tarawa' Sherman I am trying to convert to NWE British vehicle so a photo like this is just what I need.
Cheers
Tony
Quoted Text
Fingers crossed, this should be an Sherman III of 13th/18th Hussars on its way to load up at Gosport.
David
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: July 20, 2005
KitMaker: 346 posts
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Posted: Friday, December 15, 2006 - 02:44 PM UTC
Gary,
not the one on the glacis plate but on the turret itself.
To the left of the sighting vane there is what looks to be an aerial. About a foot tall.
Thats the one I mean.
The reason I ask is I am trying to get details of the squadron leaders vehicle, 4 Troop, 'C' squadron, Sherwood Rangers and this is the closeat i have come to a photo of the top of the vehicle.
Cheers
Tony
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: July 20, 2005
KitMaker: 346 posts
Armorama: 315 posts
Posted: Friday, December 15, 2006 - 04:18 PM UTC
Cheers Gary.
Well I shall leave it off my tank then :-)
Tony
Victoria, Australia
Joined: May 07, 2003
KitMaker: 4,002 posts
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Posted: Friday, December 15, 2006 - 05:07 PM UTC
Gday Tony
I dunno, but I think that many may have been refitted for the D-Day landings... Have seen plenty of pics with one, the other, and both!
I know this doesn't help you, by the way
"There never was a good war, or a bad peace."
Benjamin Franklin
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: July 20, 2005
KitMaker: 346 posts
Armorama: 315 posts
Posted: Friday, December 15, 2006 - 06:53 PM UTC
Hello Bradley,
ha-ha no it does not
Thing is in the picture I am trying to portray there is 'something there' but the resolution is so bad I cannot tell what it is.
There is also something on the glacis plate thet looks like it may be a damaged aerial, from a command tank (re earlier photo) maybe?
Having fun doing this though. Never tried to do a 'real' tank before. Research is time consuming but I am learning quite a lot.
Cheers
Tony
Wales, United Kingdom
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 3,791 posts
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Posted: Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 01:53 PM UTC
Hi Tony
Any chance of sharing your reference picture?
David
Archaeology is destruction - providing you do it properly
Barlands Farm Model Boat Club 1993
Wales, United Kingdom
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 3,791 posts
Armorama: 2,798 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 05:30 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Gary,
not the one on the glacis plate but on the turret itself.
To the left of the sighting vane there is what looks to be an aerial. About a foot tall.
Thats the one I mean.
The reason I ask is I am trying to get details of the squadron leaders vehicle, 4 Troop, 'C' squadron, Sherwood Rangers and this is the closeat i have come to a photo of the top of the vehicle.
Cheers
Tony
Two sighting vanes in closeup - the blade is the earlier one.
David
Archaeology is destruction - providing you do it properly
Barlands Farm Model Boat Club 1993
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: July 20, 2005
KitMaker: 346 posts
Armorama: 315 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 08:32 PM UTC
David
It's a poor photo but if you go to Amazon and look for 'By Tank Into Normandy' by Stuart Hill then you may be able to download and play with it a bit.
There also seems to be the radio on the front r/h/s/ hull as seen earlier in this post. It looks damaged though but may be something else.
Any ideas?
Cheers and thanks for the great photo of the sights.
Tony
