_GOTOBOTTOM
Armor/AFV: Techniques
From Weathering to making tent rolls, discuss it here.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Handles
210cav
Visit this Community
Virginia, United States
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - 07:28 PM UTC
I realize that we have had several discussions on making handles for armored vehicles, however, I am not doing well in my attempts to replace the plastic kit items. Here are my two questions"
1. how do you determine the distance between the holes on the hatch, for example, and match the wire to these dimensions?
2. what kind of wire are you using to do the substitution.

I have that gauge from Mission Models but I'll be darned if I can get the wire to bend to a given form. I asssume I am using too thick a wire. Home Depot is just down the street so if you can get me headed in the right direction I would appreciate it.
thanks
DJ
JimF
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: July 05, 2002
KitMaker: 717 posts
Armorama: 621 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - 07:49 PM UTC
I usually take a measurement from the handle while it's still in the sprue, then try to match it with the appropriate space on the Grab Handler. To get the same angle on both sides, I use a flat-bladed screw driver to force the wire flat. I have a variety of wire that I have accumulated, and what usually works best for me is the florist wire available from craft stores that comes in some useful gauges. One of the better tips I have seen regarding making handles is to use a pair of needle noses pliers with serrated jaws. Find the appropriate groove for the size handle you need, hold the wire firmly in the jaws and then bend with screw driver. I wish I seen that tip before I sank $65 in the Grab Handler, but that's life.
RobertChianese
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: December 22, 2006
KitMaker: 17 posts
Armorama: 16 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - 08:21 PM UTC
DJ,

I agree with Jim's appraoch and the use of the needle nose pliers. You can generally get so close this way that someone would have to be seriously looking at it to notice if they are off width wise. To ensure the holes match up though, I generally plug them with plasitc rod and drill new ones to match.

As for the wire, I use the metal rods you can get at your hobby shop. They come is different gauges, and tend to stand up a little better to the pliers.

Hope that helps!

210cav
Visit this Community
Virginia, United States
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - 10:07 PM UTC
My Friends-- I appreciate your assistance. I am working on the Academy M-51 Super Sherman and will display my efforts shortly. I wish I stuck to the pliers before sinking the $65 in the "Grabber." The only benefit of it seems to be as a conversation piece that always begins. "whatever you do do not get this thing..."
thanks again
DJ :
m4sherman
Visit this Community
Arizona, United States
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
Armorama: 1,808 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 12:31 AM UTC
I also use a set of needle nose pliers, a very good set from an electronics
store. Paying a bit more will get you away from those cheap ones that break. I also use brass rod from the train section, or the KS rack. One tip, cut one bent over end longer than the other and only drill one hole. Insert the long end in the hole and press on the short end where you want to drill the other hole. The rod end will make a indent right where you need to drill the hole. For multiple handles (T-34, JSU) I make a jig of thick plastic the length of the wanted handle and bend the wire at each end and true up with the pliers.
210cav
Visit this Community
Virginia, United States
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 01:21 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I also use a set of needle nose pliers, a very good set from an electronics
store. Paying a bit more will get you away from those cheap ones that break. I also use brass rod from the train section, or the KS rack. One tip, cut one bent over end longer than the other and only drill one hole. Insert the long end in the hole and press on the short end where you want to drill the other hole. The rod end will make a indent right where you need to drill the hole. For multiple handles (T-34, JSU) I make a jig of thick plastic the length of the wanted handle and bend the wire at each end and true up with the pliers.



Randy-- some great ideas here.
thanks
DJ
Grumpyoldman
Staff MemberConsigliere
KITMAKER NETWORK
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: October 17, 2003
KitMaker: 15,338 posts
Armorama: 7,297 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 01:47 AM UTC
JD, good to see you back.
As for what kind of wire I use, I prefer copper wire I get from old motors and transformers and controllers heading to the scrap heap at work. Got it in many different gauges, and they are soft enough to work perferly straight by rolling under a steel rule on a sheet of glass or cutting mat, and soft enough to easily bend with out head aches or worry.

No fancy tools, or grab handler either just a simple set of needle nose with teeth, measure the size needed, measure the with of the teeth, and position accordingly, and simply bend to shape. Easily enough to remember 9 teeth in from the end, 12 teeth in from the end.

If the wire you are using is too stiff or hard to bend, just anneal it to make it softer.
210cav
Visit this Community
Virginia, United States
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 01:51 AM UTC

Quoted Text

JD, good to see you back.
As for what kind of wire I use, I prefer copper wire I get from old motors and transformers and controllers heading to the scrap heap at work. Got it in many different gauges, and they are soft enough to work perferly straight by rolling under a steel rule on a sheet of glass or cutting mat, and soft enough to easily bend with out head aches or worry.

No fancy tools, or grab handler either just a simple set of needle nose with teeth, measure the size needed, measure the with of the teeth, and position accordingly, and simply bend to shape. Easily enough to remember 9 teeth in from the end, 12 teeth in from the end.

If the wire you are using is too stiff or hard to bend, just anneal it to make it softer.



Dave-- good to hear from old friends again. I am going to experiement again tonight. Hope to post some photos shortly.
thanks again
DJ
TacFireGuru
Visit this Community
Colorado, United States
Joined: December 25, 2004
KitMaker: 3,770 posts
Armorama: 2,263 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 02:39 AM UTC
Ditto to what Randy and Dave said.

A small set of jeweler's pliers (kind of like what Craftsman sells) works wonders. I've trimmed many of the plastic blobs off and used wire (it's amazing where [and how cheap it is] you can get this stuff). I've always bent the wire to the proper width and cut on the long side allowing you to adjust for taste. One of the best "wires" I've used came from the little spool issued with the military trip-flares. Heck, it's even primed (green) and takes paint quite well. If you want, shoot me your addy via PM and I'll send you a roll....I still have four and one will last many, many models! For that matter, this offer goes out to the first three that request it.


Mike
210cav
Visit this Community
Virginia, United States
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 05:39 PM UTC
Mike-- great thoughts on how to correctly replace the plastic handles.
thanks
DJ
Plasticbattle
#003
Visit this Community
Donegal, Ireland
Joined: May 14, 2002
KitMaker: 9,763 posts
Armorama: 7,444 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 07:41 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I wish I stuck to the pliers before sinking the $65 in the "Grabber." The only benefit of it seems to be as a conversation piece that always begins. "whatever you do do not get this thing..."


Over the last year, I decided to invest in some useful tools and books, instead of adding more kits to a pile that would take almsot 10 years to build as it is. I unfortunately bought this as well. Of all the tools I bought, this is the only one I have been dissapointed with. I have yet to have a handle that actually matches with any of the given widths, so therefore one is left to measure the pieces anyway. As its practically useless for anything else, the pliers is the wise move.
Another option for handles is small profile plastic rod from evergreen or plastruct, etc. Sometimes this works as a better option as it can be cemented easily in place.
210cav
Visit this Community
Virginia, United States
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 08:02 PM UTC
Frank-- it is always comforting to find out I am not the only disappointed Grabber user. I agree that I have not found a measurement that matches the widths on the device. Nor have I found a suitable way to bend the wire regardless of thickness. I reverted to the techniques discussed above and I am now way beyond where I was two days ago.
thanks
DJ
Tankrider
Visit this Community
Oklahoma, United States
Joined: October 07, 2002
KitMaker: 1,280 posts
Armorama: 1,208 posts
Posted: Friday, December 29, 2006 - 06:54 AM UTC
DJ,
I was just turned on to this site, www.artisticwire.com as a source of multiple gauge and color wire. At $2.99 a spool, it is a great source of wire with options. Another place is Radio Shack where you can get three spools of multi colored/multi gauge wire for wrapping speaker magnets for $6.99. I also use 8 pair wire (from CAT5 computer LAN cable) as well as telephone wire too.
HTH
John
CDK
Visit this Community
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: September 24, 2006
KitMaker: 358 posts
Armorama: 339 posts
Posted: Friday, December 29, 2006 - 07:49 AM UTC
Ausfwerks has a tool called the Bendicator on their website as well as a walk through on how to use it. It's much cheaper as well.

CDK

TacFireGuru
Visit this Community
Colorado, United States
Joined: December 25, 2004
KitMaker: 3,770 posts
Armorama: 2,263 posts
Posted: Friday, December 29, 2006 - 08:33 AM UTC
DJ,

Good to see you overcame one of the "fun" hurdles we all encounter. Looking forward to you throwing up a pic or two of what you've accomplished. Enjoy!!!

Oddly enough, doing handles is (okay, other than drilling out MG barrels) one of the first "detail" things I ever did to a model. Heck, I now remove or replace all plastic molded handles with wire...so much nicer looking!

Mike
05Sultan
#037
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: December 19, 2004
KitMaker: 2,870 posts
Armorama: 1,458 posts
Posted: Friday, December 29, 2006 - 10:17 AM UTC
Don't know if "flat bar stock" was used for hatch handles by any armor mfg. but I have used common office staples and light duty brads for handle stock before.Goes good with the pliers for modifications .No holes to drill either. Snip to depth,file square and superglue the little puppies down. :-) Add a spec of putty or spackle and you've got a weld.
cheers!
210cav
Visit this Community
Virginia, United States
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Friday, December 29, 2006 - 06:28 PM UTC
Great contributions. Keep them cards and letters coming.
DJ
M18Hellcat
Visit this Community
Michigan, United States
Joined: December 31, 2005
KitMaker: 57 posts
Armorama: 55 posts
Posted: Friday, December 29, 2006 - 07:14 PM UTC
I like using solder instead of wire because it is soft, holds the bend, and is easier to work with than most wire because the wire is too stiff. Radio Shack or any good electronics supply stores will have it in various thicknesses on small spools, almost like thread spools. Regards, Bob
matt
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Joined: February 28, 2002
KitMaker: 5,957 posts
Armorama: 2,956 posts
Posted: Friday, December 29, 2006 - 11:07 PM UTC
And there's this set as well........... Metal forming Pliers I use Brass rod from K&S engineering........
 _GOTOTOP