Hello guys!

My question is about the Humvee top hatch. I know there are (at least) two tipes os hatch - one that opens to the side folded in the midle and another one that opens to the back and the folding is smaller.

I have both Tamyia and Academy Humvees and at least one I´d like to make with the late version - that one pened to the back and that the back is used as shield.

Is it possible to be done with home made improvements or is this hatch another totaly new one?

Bye!

Marcelo

The hatch that folds to the side is the standard hatch used on all of the basic "soft skinned" armament carriers. As represented in the Tamyia and Academy kits.


The one that opens to the rear is found on the uparmored hummers (with exception of the M1109 uparmored) There is a conversion kit from Blast Models (IIRC) that will convert the Tamyia M1025 into an uparmored M1114

The side opening hatch and the rear opening hatch are completely different as is the turret ring that is built to fit it. The rearward hatch is was built for factory-made uparmored humvees (M1114, etc). The side opening hatch was developed for the M1025 armored humvees and their derivitives. One hatch and turret ring is not meant to go with the other. Sorry.

(However if you choose to do so, MIG makes the late style hatch and turret ring which is wierd since you need an uparmored humvee for it, but oh well.)

EDIT - the conversion kit (as well as the spare hatches) are from MIG

Jeff

Thanks both!

But as I can see in my ref. pics, some Humvees in Iraq, specialy in early stages, used to have the early "side" model.

Is is comom out there or not anymore?

And about the upgrade set, wich one is the bes and complete one to build an M1114?

Bye!

Marcelo

There is only one conversion set and it is from MIG. It is of moderate difficulty, requiring a bit of experience with resin and some good references (I personally have had very limited experience and I didn't have too many problems)...plus a bit of imagination because no one humvee in Iraq is the same.

As for the early humvees in Iraq, yes they are still there, but very few of them would go out on patrols. Most combat units require armored vehicles only outside the wire, though some non-combat units might still send some early humvees outside, but only with armored escort (armored meaning at least uparmored humvees). Many (but not necessarily all) M1025-type humvees would also themselves be uparmored with scrap armor.

Best bet is to research for humvee photos and stick to one or a combo of them Otherwise, just use your imagination.

This is a review from PMMS of the MIG conversion
http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/vehicles/mig/mp35254.htm

This is a construction review from PMMS of the conversion.
http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/vehicles/mig/mp35254const.htm
Jeff

Thanks Jeff!


Photos will not be the problem.. I have hundreds... but your explanation make the pics more understandable.

Thanks for the links! They´ll be great!

Bye,

Marcelo

PM sent, check your mailbox.

Jeff

Jeff is correct about the hatches, Marcelo. I just want to muddy the waters a bit more by trying to give an explanation and some pointers on how to tell Humvees apart.

First, a disclaimer: what I'm about to tell you reflects what I think I know about Humvees, but I am by no means an expert. There are folks here at Armorama (Pete, for example) who know far more than I do about these vehicles and can probably point out where I'm way off the mark, so take my musings with a grain of salt.

To grossly oversimplify matters, there are three basic types of hard-top Humvees: the M1025-series unarmored ones, the M1114-series up-armored ones, and the M1151-series modular armored ones. Things get a little complicated after that because the M1025-series Humvees come in many, many variations.

The M1025 series have the side-folding hatch and, in their most basic configuration, doors with an X stamped on them. If you see the X on the doors and the side-folding hatch, you can bet good money you're looking at an M1025-series vehicle. In this configuration, the M1025 offers virtually no protection to its passengers. Tamiya and Academy make these basic M1025s.

The second M1025-series variant is the slightly up-armored M1043 and its cousins. These Humvees still have the side-folding hatch, but the doors are flat (no raised X on them). They offer minimal protection from some shrapnel to passengers. Although the doors are flat, the give-away that you are loking at an M1043 and not a more heavily armored variant is the side-folding hatch and the bigger windows (the same size as those on an M1025). Look at the box art of Tamiya's M1044 for a good representation.

The third set of M1025 variants is comprised of M1025-series vehicles (and M1043s) that have been retrofitted with armor packages after they left the factory. There are probably thousands of different variants, from home-made hillbilly armor to standardized ASK and MASK kits, but there are a common features: all retain the side-folding hatch, and all have new armored doors or additional armor bolted/welded onto the doors and the sides of the chassis. These variants give (or try to give) occupants greater protection from small arms and shrapnel (as well as some underbody blast protection). These variants were very common in 2003-2004 in Iraq and Afghanistan, and many were still being used in 2005 even as the M1114s were becoming standard.

The M1114-series Humvees are heavily up-armored and have several distinguishing features in common: rear-opening hatch, heavy doors with small windows, and a protruding headlight/grill assembly in front. They are now the most common Humvee in Iraq. To make things confusing, however, there are now several new armor kits for the M1114 (yes, even more armor) that bulk up the doors and side panels. If you can't tell if it is an M1114 or an M1025 with an armor kit, look for the hatch or the grill in front to distinguish them.

The final set of Humvee variants is the M1151-series. These are modular vehicles designed to be up-armored and de-armored as needed with special kits. They look very similar to the M1114 they are intended to replace, but there are some subtle differences. Take a look at the picture below to see what I mean. The top picture shows an M1151 with its armor kit, while the bottom one shows an M1114. The circled areas show the differences.



I hope my long-winded explanation hasn't bored anyone to tears (and hasn't oversimplified the matter too much to make it useful).

Hello Lucas!

Man, what a lesson!!!

Now I know much more about Humvees!! Sure!

My only source are my almost 900 pics, but it´s not enougth, specialy when you gonna build one starting from the Tamiya or Academy kits.

Well, thanks you very much for your answer and we could add pics to each model to ilustrate! What do you guys think?

Bye,

Marcelo

Great explaination (I may have to cite this in the future). Just to elaborate on one aspect. Another good way to tell the difference of an M1114 and an M1151 series is in the AC unit. On 1114s, the AC unit is in the left rear section of the upper "turtleback" shell (if you will). There are louvers all along the top left rear side. In the M1151 series, you see the AC unit with a grill just above the left and right rear tire well.

US Army image of an M1114 (click on the image for a high res image (BTW the US Army's site http://www.army.mil/mediaplayer/armyimages/ is a GREAT place for high-resolution images of current equipment.

This is a primeportal image taken by Pete (EPI) of an M1151 I have absolutely no idea why it has the original M1025 X-stamped doors. This would almost definitely be replaced in country, though Pete might be able to explain why these doors on on it.

Jeff

Marcelo--glad to oblige. Here are some pics from my collection that I gathered from around the Web.

First off, the plain old M1025:



Second, an M1043:



Third, an M1025 with add-on ASK armor:


Fourth, an M1114 (this is not the best picture, since it doesn't show the prominent protruding headlight/grill):


Fifth, an M1151 with no armor package (note that it has the X on the doors but also has the protruding headlight/grill of the M1114):

This image is originally from Pete (Epi). Pete--let me know if you're ok with my using it here.

Sixth, an M1151-series with the armor kit installed:


I hope this helps!

Haha, we both used the same pic of an 1151. Thats funny.

Jeff

Hi!

Lucas and Jeff,

Great pics and, again, explanation. Now the Humvee family is more understandable for me

There are another variation tha you didn´t told. This one:



Could you tell me about this one? Itá a kit, I guess. right?

Bye!

Marcelo

Marcelo--I'd lump that one into the third category of M1025-series Humvees (the ones with the add-on armor). The armor in your picture is probably a field modification and not a standard kit, from the looks of it (that means that some mechanics in Iraq took steel armor plates, cut them to measure, and bolted/welded them on to offer better protection).

In photos I've seen, this type of field armor is most often not painted, so it is a rusty steel color that contrasts with the rest of the Humvee. If you look closely, you will see the "original" door peeking out from under the armor plate in the top left corner of both doors and around the door handle. The visible parts of the door should be painted in one of the standard Humvee colors (sand, green, or 3-color NATO).

Even the lower part in my last pic is a field mod?? Or just the doors?

Thanks Lucas and Gary!

Marcelo

Yes, as far as I know the whole thing is a field mod (it doesn't look like either the ASK or MASK kit chassis armor strips). The guys making these mods in Iraq sometimes cranked out some very high-quality stuff.

Oh, Jeff--I totally forgot about the AC unit! Thanks for bringing it up and explaining it.

As an aside, did you also notice that Pete's M1151 on Prime Portal has a side-folding hatch? It's not the same as the M1025 hatch--it looks like a new and improved version of it. Strange...

I guess it goes to show that Humvees are like snowflakes--no two are alike!

I think that hillbilly armor is a Blast kit...

It is. BL35052K Armored Doors for OIF Humvee. 15.79 on the Blast Model's site

http://www.phpshopxml.com/blamod.shop/CID/71624de7ce131ad64903d8ca164c541d/function/itemPageDisplay/shopItemCode/BL35052K

However, I consulted my references and the armor strips on the chassis IS from the ASK kit. The ASK strips are actually 3 pieces and the Blast kit has the proper shapes and of each piece. That said and one of the few times I will ever be a rivet counter here), the bolts on the Blast kit are not accurate. There are a total of 7 bolts on the front piece, 6 in the middle piece, and it looks like 3 (maybe 4) on the rear piece.

For the ASK armor strips, on two door humvees, there is only the front strip and the middle strip. The rear strip is left off.

Jeff

Could you tell a bit about that folding outside shield placed at the rear of some Humvees? That one over the cargo door.

Thanks!

Marcelo

Jeff--there's a couple of other details that are different in the Blast kit (good call on recognizing that one, by the way) when comparing it to the ASK chassis armor that make me think Blast wasn't trying to model it, but rather hillbilly armor. If you look at the pic below, you'll notice that the front-most ASK panel (in front of the driver's door) has a small rectangular protrusion at the top near the mirror attachment point, while the Blast kit has a straight line ending in a point. The other difference is the length of the second panel (underneath the driver's door). The ASK panel ends slightly to the rear of the door pillar, just under the rear door. The Blast panel ends right underneath the pillar. If Blast intended to model the ASK panels, they fell a little short (not much, though).



There is one option we haven't considered--it could also be that the Blast set is intended to represent MASK chassis panels--I don't have good references on those, so I can't really say.

Marcelo--as for your question on the panels on the rear hatch, I haven't got a clue what they are for or on what vehicles they are installed. In fact, I asked another Armorama member (Ciro, a.k.a. Wakemeup) a few weeks ago for the dimensions on the panel he scratchbuilt since I couldn't get much information on my own. Jeff, any ideas?

Lucas, do you have these dimensions? I also would like to scratchbuild one.

Thanks angain and let´s keep unvieling the Humvee in Iraq :)

Bye,

Marcelo

No problem, Marcelo--check your e-mail inbox.

I already did, Lucas!

Thanks!

Marcelo