Here's another photo of an Vietnam Arty Barge kindly supplied by the same wee bugger

Love this pic.....



Tread.

EDIT: Hey Matt! Excellent idea on the ISBN #, should have thought of that myself. But that's why you're so GOOD at the research thing :-) But if you really want a challenge, find pics or schematics on that bloody 'treecrusher' for crikky sakes!........fagedaboutit!!!

Believe me............ I've spent time digging................ Seeing as (I think) the few that were made were all different........ there might not be mutch on them. I'm trying a few more ideas to see what i can Find out

Howdy matt,

No worries on the treecrusher references, I think the lack of reference material on the unit is why the project probably hasn't seen the modeling desk of a scratchbuilder yet. Maybe we should sic our good Ti on it! ....just joshin' ys Charles

As to the barge. Doing some quick mathematical gooblitygook, the smaller 3X12 P-Series pontoon in 1/35th scale would work out to be approx. 7 1/4" wide X 20 1/2" long. The larger 'Helo' barge {evidence supports the much larger 6X18 configuration} would then work out to approx. 13 3/4" wide X 30 3/4" long.
As one might imagine, this would make a sizable project indeed. But considering my rather limited budget at the moment, and the 'Caveman' modeling tools I can scrounge together, this project still might be do-able. The vast majority of the build will be of MDF {a favourite of mine}, which for me is essentially free. So cost would be absolutely minimal. Just some time spent hacking away at it with my 'sticks and stones'....but I'm still thinkin' about

Tread.

Ask and ye shall receive. How about a scan of the actual 1/35th parts?....



The vertical height of the walls on the octagonal part is 1 1/4 ". The raised bars on the underside of the "roof" section is where the lower octagonal section connects. The lower walls are completely vertical (90 degrees). The "roof" section is wider and overhangs the walls by about 1/4" to accommodate the spaced bar armor. That should get you where you need to be.

Good luck.

@ Gordon,

Well I do have a picture that shows how the space between two pontoons was filled up. Unfortunately it wasn’t a flat plate . It’s a picture in one of the books on the Vietnam war (I thought it was the Vietnam war vol.2 by Jim Mesko, will have to check that) if you want I can scan it and send it to you.
I’d love to see you do one of these barge-beauties!!

@ Matt, these are the ISBN nr.’s for the books on LeTourneau:

The LeTourneau Legend
ISBN 0 646 27692 1

The LeTourneau Archive
ISBN 0-9585608-0-3

I checked and there’s no dutch library I could find that carries theses
Any info is welcome, thanks in advance!

Best regards
Mark

Well since this is an artillery-barge/monitor/treecrusher thread I thought I’d post this here (another reason is that I’m unable to create a new topic) I thought it might be of interest to all those interested in the Vietnam conflict.



The things hanging from the sides of this craft look to me like some sort of drone ‘torpedos’ used to detonate mines (from a distance) Anyone else knows for sure?

Best regards
Mark

Thanks for all these photos, guys, and keep 'em coming, if you have more.

I especially like the drawings of the pontoon parts as it would be pretty easy to make one of each up and cast multiples to permit making whatever size barge you like.

Gord, I wonder if I could trouble you to email me slightly better quality scans of the P-barge parts? Or, if there is a web link to that manual/book that would be great as well.

You can email me at:
tankmodeler@rogersdotcom replace the "dot" with "."

I've always wanted to scratch build one of these riverine units and the Arty barge looks like just the ticket, especially mated to the AFV CLub M102.

Paul

Howdy Fellas,

Many thx for the continued interest in this thread. Even though I am as big a fan of WWII modeling as the next guy, other conflicts such as the 'Nam also deserve our attentions. So, glad to see some people stopping by.

to HeavyArty: Gino, you are indeed a pal there pard'! Even though the ruler portion of your scan is quite difficult to read, I think I can still use it. Must say tho', that I'm a little perplexed by your description of the roof section of the wheelhouse. If I'm understanding you correctly {and that's 'iffy' for me }, the flat roof piece actually overhangs the vertical side walls by the amount past the small ridges on out to the outer edges?........right? If that's true, something about that doesn't jive.......but then maybe they did that for ease of assembly?....anyway, still researching that. Additionally, the wheelhouse walls being "completely vertical" seems to make my eyebrow rise......{although the photo kindly provided by Mark above of his minesweeper seems to show these vertical walls...but it's a slightly different boat}
Irregardless, I am in your debt for taking the time to post that pic for me, Thx.

to Mark: You bet I want a scan of that picture showing the space between the pontoon sections! Obviously there is more to research, because I cannot find anything that shows a 'mesh' or 'net' like covering so, please find that pic if you can. Thx.

Also, the minesweeper boat pic you posted is a great photo with excellent clarity! Can't say as I've seen that one yet. Is this one of the LCM (3)'s you spoke of? It doesn't seem to look quite like an LCM (3), but then my eyes seem to be playing those kinds of tricks on me today...probably need my eyes checked... Great detail, and different items on the boat peak my interest, such as the bow gun w/shield, the side mounted davits, and all of the different tarped-over areas amidships.

to tankmodeler: I think you can be fairly confident that more photos will be posted on this subject. For one of the best things about the fine members of this site is, that we all come to each other's aid when it comes to researching things of this nature....reason being is; that most of us here just simply 'love-the-chase'.
To your query about better renderings of the pontoon drawings.....I will have to work on that. I believe our good matt provided a potentially good source for a more clear schematic of that.....I'll let you know right here on this thread.

Finally, about scratching one of these up....I am looking at that right now too. One of the questions I am addressing is how best to produce them.
Making them individually {the box-like P-1 Series pontoon sections}, is overly complicating it, since the pontoons were made almost exclusively in predetermined Row X Column configurations. So, making one long pontoon in say; a 12-section, 16-section, 18-section length and then mounted these side-by-side would be much easier {at least in my humble opinion}. So, this is why I am most curious to resolve the issue of precisely what is between each pontoon, and have crossed my fingers behind my back in hope that Mark can scare those photos up he spoke about.

Again, my thx for stopping by.....

Tread.

Sounds like you understand me correctly. I'm not sure of the accuracy, but that is how it is in the Viking kit. It looks the part in the completed photos too.

Howdy Gino

Apparently I have been mixing up wheelhouse configurations in my head {it's the pits geetin' old}. Anyway, here's a couple of photos to support your kits configuration....





In both photos you can see the overhang of the wheelhouse roof, and the stand-off armour surrounding it.

Tread.

But, in my own defense { }...kinda, here's a pic showing a completely different wheelhouse configuration.........



Tread.

No problem Gordo. It looks like there was more than one type. Good pics. Always good to have a few more references.

@Godon
the picture that shows how the space between the pontoons is 'filled' is on it's way (I'll scan and post it today) that will also make clear you could model the pontoons in serie in one direction (as you planned) because one direction the space is filled using steel connections (2 l-shapes) and in the other direction there's this mesh (I'm sorry for my poor explanation, I'm sure the picture will clarify some more)

here's some more info on the barges:

http://www.oldreliable.org/octofoil/v2_n3/p06.html

(be sure to check the other pages of this site!!)

About the LCM-3, this is the picture I meant, see this thread

https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/75805#633582

btw these are great pictures of the bar armor!
I hope we'll see some monitor in progress pictures soon


@Paul
Here's a bit more on the P-pontoons (not sure if you saw this)

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/5-480/Ch10.htm

best regards
Mark

a little more on the pontoons:

http://tpub.com/content/construction/14251/css/14251_257.htm

http://www.sapiensman.com/tools_and_equipment/theory/sapiensman2.pdf
(pdf needs some time to download; for pontoons see chapter 10 page 257)

and the artillery barges:

http://sill-www.army.mil/FAMAG/2006/MAR_APR_2006/MAR_APR_06_PAGES_22_27.pdf

hope this helps

Mark

Hi all,
I found this other picture of the P-pontoon barge used in Vietnam (alongside an YRBM, picture is from brownwater-navy.com)



And this picture shows how the space between pontoons was filled (it’s from Groundwar Vietnam vol. 2- Jim Mesko)



Hope this makes thing a little clearer (better than I can explain for sure )

Best regards
Mark

I hope you know what I mean with mesh between the pontoons, the grill-like thing

But on the other hand: I just zoomed in and the other spaces between the pontoons seem to be the old style (that’s what I assumed they were) connections, consisting of flat plates with round holes in them (much easier to model!!)
Like on this pontoon-barge:


Hope this helps

Mark

Oh you guys must be getting sick and tired of me posting pictures in this thread, but here I go again :
this one I just found:


hope you like it anyway

Mark

Looks very impressive. A good sized diorama too I would imagine

Des

"......Oh you guys must be getting sick and tired of me posting pictures in this thread......"

Oh contrare' my fine young friend, I challenge you to find someone here that doesn't appreciate the posting of pics on the site...and the more the merrier. Now, you might recieve less than luke-warn interest in your posted pic {kinda like my ABSD photo generated over at the MSW side of the site}, but I can assure you, with the current membership being as swelled as it is now, you will most definitely find an appreciative audience waiting in the wings.

As a matter of fact, I'm going to post that very same ABSD pic I posted over there, over here.....maybe a slightly new 'audience' will find it interesting...here it is;



Don't want to detour the thread or anything, but thought you might like the pic....
Having been intrigued by the interesting way in which these ABSD's are utilized, I have always wanted to build one of them...or maybe ten? ;-)

Back to your photo of the P-series pontoon. That is a very good pic! Especially for anyone doing any research, because it shows some good detail of the sides of the pontoon sections and the space between them when they are joined {something I must confess I was hoping wasn't there because it would be harder to replicate...}.
For what it's worth, I think I've already figured out how to do it

Tread.

Howdy fellow BWN enthusiast's,

Here's an interesting photo {courtesy of the kind Mark} of an early Tango boat.....



If you look closely {might have to enlarge it} at the Tango boat at the top of the picture, and you look towards the bow of the boat, you can make out two turrets. These turrets appear to be zippo turrets.
I was under the impression that the MRF 'Zippo' boats were based on the Monitor boat configuration.....anybody?

Tread.

Hi Gordon,
Great picture!
If I see it right the flamethrower turrets are placed in a raised area at the front, there’s also a configuration with bar armor in front and at the sides of this raised area (I’m not sure if I sent you a picture of this specific one, it’s on a different HD, I’ll check and sent it to you, it’s not very clear unfortunately)
I believe in Vietnam not all vehicles and craft used were exactly according the rules (hope I make myself clear) This seems especially the case with the flamethrower “monitor”. One of the first flame-conversions was a LCM they put a M132 flamethrower in (did you get this picture or is it in the same HD as the other one?)
I think that’s part of the fun doing Vietnam related stuff; you can allow yourself a little artistic freedom without wandering too far of of reality.
And these one (or two) of a kind vehicles/craft make very interesting modelling subjects (I think).

Best regards
Mark

Hi Gino!

Where is it possible to get the viking´s kit?

Right now I am working in Beijing (China) and the only kits I´ve seen here are from Lee. As you can see I don´t stay for more than 1 year in a country. I´ll stay here until Christmas. Hopefully I´ll be able to stay more time but until November I won´t know anything.

Thanks in advance,
Angel

Sorry Angel, the Viking kit is long OOP. I got it in a trade. Have fun in China.

Howdy fellas,

And a big "Howdy!" to you Angel!! Nice to 'see' you again mi compadre'. You are one travelin' son of a gun. It seems like whenever you stop by you're in a different place.....must be quite the adventure.

to Mark; Yeah, it is a "great" picture isn't it? It's one of the ones you so kindly sent me...and I am most grateful.
As to the Tango boat with turrets, I am still analyzing the photograph for details. The Monitor-style zippo boats had large containers installed aboard to carry the fuel used to supply the flamethrowers. In this Tango boat configured zippo arrangement one would expect to see these tanks, or bladders, carried in the main cargo area of the LCM. But I can find no such evidence in the photograph...hence, my theory {?} that this was a Tango boat that was either experimental, or possibly photographed while in the process of being built as a zippo boat.......thoughts?

Now, to those photos you mentioned in your post. They must be on that other HD, because I could not find them on what you sent.


Finally, I've been thinking about it and I've decided to go ahead with plans to scratchbuild the P-Series Pontoon based Artillery Barge of the Vietnam era. I've already done so much research on the subject that I think I need to build it just to get it out of my system.
And, just to kill at least two birds with the same stone, I will be entering this project in the ongoing ACUTER Campaign that our good and learned barv is runnin' over at ModelGeek.

So, for those choice few who have found this, and other Vietnam-era modeling interesting , keep watching. I'm sure I'll be entertainng you all with my usual assortment of modeling Faux pas's......

regards,

Tread

Hi Mark

Do you have a source for info or pictures of LCM's carrying the M132 flamethrowers at all please?

Treadhead - Fantastic thread, thanks for sharing it.

Cheers
Dus