Hi folks,

I would like more feedback on how we could possibly improve the way we run campaigns at the moment. The burning questions i really have are these:

1) Why are there members here that don't sign up for the campaigns?
2) Do you have any ideas on how we can make campaigns more appealing?
3) What do you look for in a campaign before signing up for it?
4) What would you like to see for future campaigns?
5) What is it that you DON'T like about the way campaigns are conducted?

Feel free to provide any feedback that you may have. I am looking for constructive feedback so if you could couple criticism with suggestions, that would be most ideal.

C'mon guys, these campaigns are purely for YOUR enjoyment so give me ideas!

Hee Jeremy,

Good action!

1) Why are there members here that don't sign up for the campaigns?
- Actually, I don't know. I can only guess the following things:
- no time
- afraid of the campaign becomes a sort of "competition"

2) Do you have any ideas on how we can make campaigns more appealing?
- Sorry, no ideas. I think they are appealing enough (I allow myself only 1 campaign each 6 months now, before I join too many)

3) What do you look for in a campaign before signing up for it?
- The subject
- The rules (must be challenging enough)
- The given time; not too short so I can join without stress to finish in time, and not too long so I don't loose the intrest after 7 months
3 months is mostly ideal, but it depends on the subject off-course
- joined interest; if I expect it to be an "living" campaign with lots of information exchange
- something different in subject
- X factors: for example: there must be something scratchbuild in the entry
- the "learning" factor; for instance the Walcheren '44 campaign was really fun because of all the information exposed about "Operation Torch" and the Battle of the Scheldt.

4) What would you like to see for future campaigns?
- campaignleaders who keep in contact with the campaing members, stimulate them, keep the "talk on the threads" going.
There are some real good leaders, but also some who dissapeared in thin air...

5) What is it that you DON'T like about the way campaigns are conducted?
- As I said before: I really don't like it when campaignleaders cleary lost intrest in campaigns. I would say they have to hand over command to another member than, so the campaign keeps alive.

Just my five (euro)cents!

Paul

OK I will have a go at answering your questions



I think a number of members, like I did, see a campaign as a contest rather than an opportunity to show of your work to a bigger audience than SWMBO and the cats. Also that bigger audience is a problem, like speaking in public, "what will they think", "will they approve" etc. Taking the first step is the hardest, but once you start there no stopping.



In a word no it seems pretty good to me as it is.



A theme that interests me and catches my imagination.



Broad subjects, something that allows for a bit of leeway, i.e. a campaign entitled "Armour in North Africa" would allow for a far wider range of entries than on named "Armour in North Africa 1940 to 1943" Also keep the rules simple, not to restrictive.



Nothing, on the whole the way they are run seems pretty good to me. There again I'm a simple creature, easily kept happy.

Hope all hat is of some help.
Cheers
David

Question 1

I think the main reason people are not signing up is because they are affraid to show of their work. Very few of us can reach the level of some of experts in this hobby. Even if I made the best model I have ever made it cannot reach their level. That scares a lot of people of. Posting pictures of your build and being met with a wall of silence might not be too encouraging for some people in the long run

I participate in all the campaigns this spring, but I cannot possibly build as good as some of the other guys. I just accept that and keep building anyway because I am having fun.

Question 2-4
It could be cool if the campaign leader were really into their subject and could help with advise and information along the way. However, I realise this would be a huge workburden for the campaign leader so it might not be realistic.
I just see campaigns as a way to share the hobby with others. Many of the subjects are really interesting and it is a big part of the hobby (for me at least) to discuss versions, details etc.

Question 5.
Well, I am pretty satisfied....

1) Why are there members here that don't sign up for the campaigns?
- No time
- A little shy to post their models
- No interest in that particular campaign or campaigns

2) Do you have any ideas on how we can make campaigns more appealing?
- I think It's up to the campaign leader to keep the member's interest. Maybe by posting on a regular basis to stir ideas and follow the participant progress.
- The leader should try to make a very nice and comprehensive blog of is own work. This should help others keep interest and even boost them to go the same way. That way much more discussion could come out on technics, history, etc...

3) What do you look for in a campaign before signing up for it?
- First the subject. Am I really interested in it so I will not loose interest a few weeks later.
- Do I have a kit in my stash that fit the bill and, if not, do I want to invest in yet another kit to participate.
- Can I make it before the deadline knowing I work slowly and have a few kits already on the workbench.

4) What would you like to see for future campaigns?
As long as the choice of campagns are varied I don't see any problems here. Bye varied I mean Timeframe, type of vehicles (AFV, tanks, softskins...), type of subject (single vehicle, figures, diorama...)

5) What is it that you DON'T like about the way campaigns are conducted?
So far the system seems quite ok for me. Nothing bad to report

1) Why are there members here that don't sign up for the campaigns?

Last year I signed up for far too many. I would imagine that people don't sign up either because they think they won't finish in time or because as the others have said that people are shy of showing their work.

2) Do you have any ideas on how we can make campaigns more appealing?

As Jesper says

It happens now to some extent that people advise each other on kits etc that would be appropriate for the campaign but maybe if something was put into the campaign rules page about helping each other out maybe the campaigns would be more driven by the participants -do you know what I mean. I know it's not something you can force Perhaps if the campaign leader posted an update where they marked peoples progress, not justing asking where people were with their builds but a bit more pro active or is that too pushy

3) What do you look for in a campaign before signing up for it?

I generally look in my stash to see if I have something that might suit. Also something that might push my modelling skills a little bit.

4) What would you like to see for future campaigns?

A campaign for tanks with tank riders, a "Bad Weather" or "Seasons" campaign to develop groundwork skills. A wreck campaign. The "Under new management" campaign that was mentioned somewhere. An urban setting campaign to be followed by a rural campaign. A "Poor bloody Infantry" campaign to complement the Special Forces campaign (This could include vehicles used by infantry)
A "Before and After " or early and late campaign to show for instance an early war tank together with a late war tank of the same army for instance a T-28 together with a JS3 or pzr1 and Jagdtiger or just some 1939 infantry and 1945 infantry

5) What is it that you DON'T like about the way campaigns are conducted?

Sometimes the campaign threads get a little too long -maybe they could be broken up into beginning, middle, and end threads. I know people work at different paces so they could post to the appropriate threads as they progress through their builds. This would help I think to mark the priogress of the campaign which might motivate campaigners.


Okay my head hurts now -time for coffee

1) Why are there members here that don't sign up for the campaigns?
The subject does not interest them or they do not have a suitable kit on hand and limited funds to buy one just for a campaign.

2) Do you have any ideas on how we can make campaigns more appealing?
A more tangible reward for participating perhaps?

3) What do you look for in a campaign before signing up for it?
Do I have a kit that fits the criteria, do I feel like building it, what are my time constraints due to other factors (other builds, work, family, etc.)

4) What would you like to see for future campaigns?
Something that interests me and is suitable to what I would normally build.

5) What is it that you DON'T like about the way campaigns are conducted?
Phantom campaign leaders. These are the guys that arrive at the site one day, suggest/submit a campaign shortly after joining the site, then when the campaign begins, they disappear.

This is the situation that I normally see at FSM:

"Hey, I just bought the latest hot kit being talked about. I am going to start a GB with a theme that includes my new kit. It starts right now and ends in 1 year. Everyone who wants to join start building."


Here, since the site formalizes the process, when one of those eager beavers decides to start a GB, it may take weeks for the campaign to be approved and then it may not be scheduled to begin for several months. By the time the campaign is approved and the start date arrives, the eager beaver has long gone.

I think the "shyness factor" is primary here, although "subject interest" is also another important factor. One personal reason is that I have a huge stash and rather than buying new models for campaigns I try to go for campaigns to build kits from my stash (I should say it isn't a problem though with my huge stash :-) )





Press on the participants harder. At the beginning of each campaign, there is a huge enthusiasm, ideas and new projects fly at all directions and stuff.. However, as the campaign progresses interest dwindles, except for a few determined souls no one bothers even to check on campaign status. Since the group loses motivation altogether, the campaign becomes dull. Especially since each modeler build at different speeds and have different progress, lost interest can mean that a lot of good models will be left unfinished by the slower builders; so that when it is harvest season (time near the end of a campaign), our modelling field is empty, whereas it should have been bustling with product.

What a campaign leader or the contributing members should do is to encourage each other. Like maybe you were doing, taking roll calls, asking members about progress, giving direct support where needed. One such example is myself in the Greatest Modern Tanks Campaign. Normally I am notorious for being a lazy modeler and since my work occupies too much of my time it takes ages (literally up to 3 years) to finish models. However, I was maybe the last one in for that campaign and in a record breaking speed I was able to assemble an old Dragon kit and complete it within the time limit, I personally think the reason was being motivated and encouraged to keep on. So if we "press people harder" we are likely to get better results. I know it might become too much of a burden on campaign leaders, but then what is a leader is for?

In addition, maybe each campaign might have two leaders, so that the responsibility and the burden be shared. Might be harder to manage but would definitely improve leadership on the campaigns.






Am I interested in the subject? Do I have a suitable kit in my stash? Do I believe that the campaign will be worth my time and the hassle? (I should call this "priority of interest", since my modelling time is very limited AND I am slow, I have to decide on which projects to go on with and which ones to postpone, maybe for the 100th time)





Diversity, creativity and fun please. Make each campaign as different as possible so we don't run in loops, keep the number limited so that each one will be better maintained and keep us on the job.





Definitely Phantom Leaders, as I stated in my comments in the second question. I also don't like when campaigns in a way are "assimilated", that means when they start drifting in the same direction (like everyone starts building German Armor for all campaigns or all campaigns are for building tanks at the same time... kills diversity, kills interest)

Well, just my five liras, hope they are useful!

I'll answer from how I feel personally on all of them, no guesses as to what may keep others out.

1) Why are there members here that don't sign up for the campaigns?
Sometimes its the limits. Sure, limiting it to WWII or Vietnam or modern stuff is great, especially in examples such as Welcome to the Nam, and the OIF campaign. But sometimes that in itself leaves people like me out. I basically only like to build modern. The only campaign idea presented so far that would get me to build any older armour is the Father and Son campaign that was propsed but didnt quite make it this time around.
Also, money for me limits my campaigns, because Im still just a student on a budget.

2) Do you have any ideas on how we can make campaigns more appealing?
As has been suggested, maybe some more leeway. Like armour in North Africa, rather than North Africa 1940-43. That would leave it open to build say, modern Egyptian vehicles.

3) What do you look for in a campaign before signing up for it?
Basically if it catches my interest, and I can work out a way to fund my build, Im in.

4) What would you like to see for future campaigns?
Not sure. I do like the idea of collectively deciding by vote which campaigns go through, judging by the most interest.

5) What is it that you DON'T like about the way campaigns are conducted?
Again, the elusive "phantom campaign leader". For those running their first campaign, a little more tolerance can be used since their inactivity and posts may be them doing extra work on organization, or trying to figure things out still. Thats fine, just post something to let us all know you are still there in control of things. And never be afraid to ask someone more experienced for help.

We are getting some great feedback here guys. So far the overall key point im noticing is about phantom leaders so i will definitely try to add this issue.

I've only seen one favorable response regarding holding a vote at the start to pick the campaigns for the half of the year. What about the rest of you? Do you like this system of voting on the campaigns? Should this be longer than a week?

The other ideas i have is to view the campaign submissions and pick the best for On Displays. Are there other incentives that would motivate others to complete their campaigns?




I hear ya Pat. Im working with Jim to see how we can more efficiently handle threads for a particular campaign. We used to create sub forums and group them there but i believe Jim had to constantly maintain these which proved too time consuming. Will run it pass the chief to see what other ideas he may have.

Keep the feedback coming guys!

Good responses here.

I think the Campaign Leader has to be involved -- a cheerleader (but not a shallow one), a knowledge base, a facilitator. A good campaign is an active one with involved people who post frequent progress. It must be an environment where constructive comments that might help all participants are the norm rather than the "great job" stuff ...

I think the Campaign has to have some challenge to it - make people reach a bit, not just another Sherman or Tiger Campaign ... There should be a twist to it that makes people interested enough to get out of their comfort zone & not just slam down the umpti-th kit from their stash. They might be happy snagging the ribbon but it is boring to the rest of us ... This should be a learning & sharing experience ...

I will note that voting on a slate of campaigns for the next (half)year is a good idea, it isn't infallible. Up in Aeroscale, "Bloody April" was I think the 2nd most popular, but when it came time to sign up, there are just four of us ...

I agree on long threads -- there should be two general threads -- one for leader only where he keeps current rules, participants & kits, etc - the 2nd for general campaign talk. Then, we NEED to get the "thread selectors" working again so that members are encouraged to start their own detailed build thread and it can be easily found !!! I much prefer doing my own thread.

It's not a problem for me, but I think some folks don't know (free)options for hosting photos and we ought to explain that in detail so they are encouraged to submit same in their threads.

And to piggyback on Rob/Sabot -- "just don't become FSM..."

John

In general I think campaigns are pretty good. Most of the topics seem to be covered well. There are a few things that no one has brought up.

Personally....

Being an OOTB builder with minimal conversion or scratch building I prefer shorter campaign periods. I get my stuff done rather quickly and I get bored waiting for the campaign. I know that others like to take their time to build and some projects can be complicated but that's how I feel.

Campaign leaders that have no idea how to run a campaign before they submit a proposal. They don't know how to sign up members and they don't know how to load ribbons. Maybe a leader should be required to load up a ribbon with the proposal.

Well, I didn't comment on it because I thought it was "the rule". However, I think it is very logical and a MUST.

However, I think voting times must be longer to get better feedback. Remember those who don't have a lot of time!

Excellent topic!
I love the idea of campaigns. Great way to show off your work and hopefully get some meaningful feedback. As stated ,they should be general enough to appeal to the folks here. I look at campaigns to determine if I can build something to submit, pending the stash and interest levels. As far as what I don't like... long build times (lose of interest) &
As long as I can build a Sherman/ derivative for the campaign I be happy.
Keep up the good works!

Doug

Hi Jeremy.
Good questions and good answers so far. It's just a thought that the 'ribbons' have been gone for some time now that show beneath each persons posts. Can this be put back? Maybe people would like to see some sense of achievement after they have finished a campaign. Not just buried away in a persons profile.

Voting for campaigns is to me a good idea also. Give people what they want as long as their is a decent choice of course.

Everyone has mentioned that perhaps campaigns are seen as a competition, which they are not of course. Perhaps the camaraderie of joining could be stressed more.

I really enjoyed the campaigns I participated in last year. My models are not as good as some others but it was fun. That's what is important.

Thanks for asking.

Tony

Thats a great point Tony,I, think it would encourage more people to take part if everyone could see thier ribbons on display.
After all ,we put a lot of work into earning them,lets show them off
Andy

Jeremy, since I was the one who commented, I will explain some more. I think it should be longer than a week. I think 2 weeks would be good, and give everyone a fair chance to see it and give their input.

Alan, I know how you feel. Im usually done pretty quick once I start, so it is kind of long to wait, but there isnt much that can be done about it since everyone builds with a differing degree of OOB/aftermarket addons, and at different speeds. I also agree with you on campaign leaders, but maybe not as far. Maybe for a first time, they can be a little in the dark about the workings, as long as its been proven they are actively seeking help/advice form experienced members.

Tony, agree that you have a good idea about the ribbons.

HI Jeremy,

I read your post, and here are my thoughts and observations.........

1) I think the members here that do not sign up for campaigns may not sign up for a variety of reasons. Firstly, I have been a member here for a few years now, and I have only recently completed a campaign. The reason being is A) I didnt know what the campaigns were exactly, B) I usually built models at my own pace to my own interests and didnt want to be constrained to a "set of rules". I think some other members may be intimidated and feel their work isnt as good as maybe someone elses. I will say to anyone who reads this, "Sign up for the campaigns if your interestedin the subject!" They are a lot of fun, a great way to learn more about the hobby, and I for one had a great time meeting new people and making new friends. I'll be doing campaigns from here on in providing I am interested in the subject.

2) I think the campaigns are appealing enough as they are. I dont think they could be structured looser then they already are and still be called "Campaigns".

3) As far as what to look for in a campaign, I would say it has to be a subject I am familiar with (at least somewhat), and something I find interesting. Anymore, I build primarily modern subjects, so any campaign I would likely sign up for would have to be related to modern era.

4) As far as future campaigns go, anything modern works for me. I also wish more people would sign up for the campaigns. The way I see it is, its not a competition as much as it is a group build, and the bigger the group, the more fun you have and more you learn.

5) I dont think there is anything I dont like about the way the campaigns are conducted. If this were my site, I probably wouldnt change a thing. However, as someone already said, I think the campaign leaders should play a more active role in the campaign they are hosting. By no means am I referring to all the campaign leaders. Some are very good, very inspirational, and offer great assistance (ie AFV Rob). I will often follow a campaign even if Im not in it just to "see" how it is going for my own curiosity, and will notice there are some where the members play more of an active role in conducting the campaign then the leader. I also would like to say I thought it was a great idea to have a vote on the campaigns like we recently had here. Its a very good way to guage the interest of the members and find out what everyone's interests are.

On a further note, Jeremy, I like your idea of picking the best subjects of campaigns and posting them as "On Display" subjects is a good idea. For one, it motivates the participants to do the best work they can, and also, its something of a reward if you happen to have built the best one of the campaign. I have noticed recently there have been a lot more models "on display" and that the subjects seem to change more frequently then in the past. Perhaps with winter here, more people are modelling and therefor there are more models worth considering. Whatever the reason, I always enjoy hitting the home page and seeing something new. Even if its not my choice of subject, I still appreciate a great model.

Gary

One of the most positive campaigns that I remember was where the actual subject was fixed. The campaign Im referring to was the Italeri M4A1 76mm campaign. One subject, had to be built without aftermarket items..
Great learning campaign that was. The information on improvements and techniques was a winner. As everybody built the same kit, all could relate. Those who started early got really involved and those started late, could read through the previous posts for all the information ... reworking the barrell, adding cast texture, simple improvements, etc.
Cheap, simple and easily available kit, so all could take part ... including newer members (such as myself at the time). It wouldbe great to see something similar run again.
Something like Tamiyas M2/M16/M21 kits for example ... with no aftermarket. One of the above, ... almost anybody who has a stash would have one, easily available (choice of 3) and relatively cheap.

Id also like to echo the call for stronger leaders. Somebody who would really drive the campaign and also have a solid reserve to help share the burden, when and if needed.

Greetings all

1) Why are there members here that don't sign up for the campaigns?

Time and subject

2) Do you have any ideas on how we can make campaigns more appealing?

Yes, an addition to the Features section where all those who finish have their models displayed under Campaign Feature at the end of the build. This would also provide a growing reference for past works.

Also the ribbons or medals or whatever are a good idea, folks should get some kind of recognition for taking part, not sure if they are still around or not?

3) What do you look for in a campaign before signing up for it?

I've only joined one and got no where near completing. Subject is the most important and flexability.


4) What would you like to see for future campaigns?

As suggested in 2


5) What is it that you DON'T like about the way campaigns are conducted?

Rules, can't stand them, that and posts that appear all over the place. I'd rather see them under one roof and as has been suggested maybe in organised sections, ie the ideas, thoughts and discussions, the build stage and the final presentation stage. The threads should be linked also, so it is easy to hop between them.

Just some thoughts.

Cheers

Al

1) Why are there members here that don't sign up for the campaigns?
Time and fear of showing their work might be two major factors.

2) Do you have any ideas on how we can make campaigns more appealing?
Participants could vote for the best entry and the winner would get additional/ special ribbon.
Allowing to enter with the same model to two or more campaings. Voting for campaings members would like to have is a great idea, but it should last for 2-4 weeks (I think 2 weeks is enough).


3) What do you look for in a campaign before signing up for it?
Subject + simplicity of rules, do I have kit in my stash that fits to rules or is there a kit I would like to buy, to build and to participate in campaing.

4) What would you like to see for future campaigns?
diversity in subjects and at least five or six capaings for each half of each year. For second half of the year I would like to propose: "Paint me white" (vehicle painted in winter scheme + UN peacekeeping forces if painted white), "Under new managment", "Tow" (anything that can't moved without being towed) + few more.

5) What is it that you DON'T like about the way campaigns are conducted?
I don't recall anything I don't like.

I believe this does put quite a strain on the site not to mention graphic intensive if everyone had it. Most members these days combine them into a banner and then place it there. Its not too hard so perhaps you could try to do the same?




I do intend to scout around for great builds and post them up for On Displays for all the current campaigns so make sure you guys take lots of good photos of your builds!

I hear you all in regards to more proactive campaign leaders and will certainly do what i can to encourage all current campaign leaders to get more involved.

Thanks for the great feedback and PLEASE do keep it coming!

Here's another few suggestion/ideas.

Campaign leaders should encourage people to post as much about their project as they can. I saw a thread where a participant was saided he didn't have to post anything except a picture of the finished model. This is suppose to be a group built so all the participants should try to give as much info as possible for there project so other can encourage, give feedback, ideas etc...

Wich lead to my second idea. Presently each campaign has it's own thread where everyone post in a kind of free for all. We post our built that become very fragmented as others add to the thread between updates. What I think could greatly help in this case is that each participant open his own built thread in the feedback forum. The title should include the campaign title to help distinguish(sp?) them. He also post a link in the main campaign thread or send it via PM to the campaign leader. The campaign leader then update the first post with all the links to the participant models. That way it's very easy to see each participant blog and this help keep the main thread less of a mess.

Hope this help a little

Excellent suggestion Richard. I will pass this message onto the campaign leaders to see if we can get this going!

I like that the new campaigns are sticky's. It was very confusing last year with several having multiple threads running at the same time.